Toying around with an idea

[The Rock Doctor]

We may know that torpedoes are somewhat over-valued at this time, but our respective nations may not have an accurate grasp of their capabilities.  You'd probably get a faction in your navy that wrote them off as wastes of space, and another faction that couldn't get enough of them.  Your design philosophy would depend upon which faction controlled the decision-making process.

Thinking out loud, those 12" fixed guns might be better simmed as a quad turret with no side/top armor.  That'll give you the loading machinery and associated weight.  Alternately, maybe an open turret with barbette or something?

[khymerion]

Well... I don't get the joy of having quad turret anything and most likely would get chewed on for even thinking it.  I also want the afford the crews maximum protection considering the insane job this would bring them and I don't have the technology nor the superior guns and mounts to do anything more impressive.  While I would love to have an open barbette, that doesn't exactly scream protection, considering the wall of lead that will be pitched at them during the final closing moments that the ship will experience.  I know I should refine it more but having to play within the very very hard rules means I gotta cut some corners somewhere... wish there was a way to just put the mechanisms that go into a turrent and make them work on the large scale for the forward castemated 12" guns.

[The Rock Doctor]

Then add some miscellaneous weight to represent it.  Unfortunately, I can't tell you how much to add...

[maddox]

One solution is to forgo all deck armor, and only armor the ends ,upper belt and front of the turrets. But to avoid golden twinkies, the barbettes as well
The close range this ship will fight won't allow for deck penetration.

[Korpen]

One solution is to forgo all deck armor, and only armor the ends ,upper belt and front of the turrets. But to avoid golden twinkies, the barbettes as well
The close range this ship will fight won't allow for deck penetration.

Maybe no deck hits as such, but you still want some deck protection to stop splinter and force from shells that penetrate the belts or detonate above them from reaching the magazines and engineering spaces.

[maddox]

This monster has only 8 305 mm guns, all bearing the forward arc.
400mm armor for the ends and upper belt, and yes, even a bit of deck armor.
The  large battery of 152mm guns will cause havoc and soft kills alls over
The 10 casemated 104's are an aftertought to have at least an token effort agains enemy torpedo attacks.



And it's cheaper...


Berserker, Baltic Confederation Battleship destroyer laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   22.032 t light; 23.339 t standard; 24.104 t normal; 24.716 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   639,76 ft / 639,76 ft x 104,99 ft x 22,31 ft (normal load)
   195,00 m / 195,00 m x 32,00 m  x 6,80 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,68kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all forward
      4 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,68kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      18 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 4,09" / 104 mm guns in single mounts, 34,32lbs / 15,57kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9.198 lbs / 4.172 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   324,80 ft / 99,00 m   12,86 ft / 3,92 m
   Ends:   15,7" / 400 mm   265,72 ft / 80,99 m   12,86 ft / 3,92 m
     49,25 ft / 15,01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   11,8" / 300 mm   324,80 ft / 99,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 78% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,7" / 400 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      15,7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   11,8" / 300 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      11,8" / 300 mm
   3rd:   11,8" / 300 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   4th:   1,97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42.941 shp / 32.034 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 3.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.377 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   966 - 1.257

Cost:
   £2,037 million / $8,150 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.150 tons, 4,8%
   Armour: 8.715 tons, 36,2%
      - Belts: 4.195 tons, 17,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 2.544 tons, 10,6%
      - Armour Deck: 1.728 tons, 7,2%
      - Conning Tower: 248 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 2.147 tons, 8,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.971 tons, 41,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.072 tons, 8,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41.818 lbs / 18.969 Kg = 48,3 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 4,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,35
   Metacentric height 9,2 ft / 2,8 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,09 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -8,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (30%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (30%):   16,99 ft / 5,18 m (22,97 ft / 7,00 m before break)
      - Stern:      16,99 ft / 5,18 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,29 ft / 5,57 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184,2%
   Waterplane Area: 47.450 Square feet or 4.408 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 820 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,02
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Ithekro]

The main problem will be when you are passing through the battleline (assuming it suvives the approach), at that range the ships on either of your broadsides will have a nice ship of your profile at point blank range (might be too close for main battery hits on the main belt, but I don't know that for sure...though it would be their end on fire verses you broadsides then).  The Samwise with 6 inch secondaries should be able to rip into their end armor at that range (the 4.5 inch might even be able to do that on some ships at less than 1,000 yards), and if you could split fire your main batteries you'd have five guns per braodside.  With the French more normal twin turrets you'd have four guns per broadside, which should outgun or equal most ships end on fire.

[P3D]

You cannot armor your ship to the extent that it would be invulnerable to point-blank shots.

[Ithekro]

True, but also if you are charging a line of battleships with only a few of these, the ships at the end or there cruiser support can pull off and engage you on the broadside at range, at which point the French ship's thin 4" main belt could prove to be a problem.

[khymerion]

Well... now that I have heard all of these ideas, I would have to say it is a novel idea but till better guns are developed (and thus removing the need for such a ship)... this project will be relished on the "it will look good in a pulp fiction book" category of material, next to Mr. Vern's or Mr. Wells' recent books.

[P3D]

It will be counted among such unfeasible inventions like submarines and heavier-than-air aircrafts.