New Zion Battlecruiser?

[maddox]

New Zion, with the Italians and the Deutsche Kaiserreigh as imperialistic neighbors, and the Caliphate bend on religious righteousnessNew Zion has every reason to invest in  GOOD coastal defences and a huge, good equiped and trained army.

So, the New Zion elders, among the best busnessmen on the world are interested in these matters, and do ,on regular base, send out internatial design competitions. But strangely enough, no winner was ever build.

[Ithekro]

Firanj is sort of that thorn type NPC.  There to keep a PC in check.  With the finding of the old Caliphate vessels, the only new designs are for the Lakes (which wouldn't have been covered in the earlier sim as there were no huge lakes in Australia) and the supercruisers to annoy the Swiss.

I don't know if Firanj will be a real PC nation, I've more or less left the interal working alone and just focused on the fleet design to keep the Swiss occupied.  New Zion seems like it can't be a real PC nation...it is just way to poor to be anything until maybe the 1930s.

[Desertfox]

But why should it be so poor? One of the reasons we restarted was to give new players a chance. And if all the NPCs are that poor where will they start? I think each of the NPCs should have at least a fighting chance not too much but then again not to little, otherwise PC will just be able to run NPCs roughshod.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The world has its China's and Russia's or France's, and it has its San Marinos, Luxemburgs, Liberias ...
Borys

[Ithekro]

I don't think this New Zion was meant to be a player nation.  The two-three larger Indian nations, Persia, now limited Khazaria, Eygpt, Peru, the Union del Sur-America (Isn't someone playing Italy?), Maoria could be one or many smaller nations, and that white area in Africa (Nigeria?).  Firanj maybe at some point as well, maybe Kiev, Siam, New Zion, and Liberia.

[swamphen]

NZ could be a PC for somebody wanting something small, but until then it should be 'kept up to date' at least with regards to its fleet (IMHO, the NPCs should be pretty much 'turn-key packages' with regard to their naval forces at least).

I agree that the majority of the NZ's treasury will be aimed at land defences (vs. Egypt, likely, primarily, then the Reich, then the Italians, Dutch and French). I would expect that the 'inherited' CofC battleships are in sorry shape, while the ex-Abyssinian ships would be better maintained but woefully obsolete. Torpedobooten and gunboats would be the first priority, then small cruisers. Perhaps one 'national pride' large ship built early, but that would likely lead to covert* or overt action against it; the Reich is willing to tolerate the horsefly on its flank only as long as it refrains from biting...


* - Abwehr. They're everywhere you want to be.  ;D

[Ithekro]

Enterprising Jews conveting a round battleship into an aircraft carrier....wait, no, no, too short a strip...mobile airship carrier?  Still too short....

[Carthaginian]

Enterprising Jews conveting a round battleship into an aircraft carrier....wait, no, no, too short a strip...mobile airship carrier?  Still too short....

Auto-gyro carrier, perhaps? ;)
I know that WW has made use of AG's; I don't know if they'll show up here.

[Desertfox]

What infrastructure will New Zion have? I know Abbysinia had considerable, around 2-3 HBPs.

This is what I have for the Caliphate and Ethiopia (old):

Caliphate

Capital: Cairo
Goverment: Caliphate
Economy: 7 HBP, 5 MBP
Manpower: 19 MP 76 million


Ethiopia

Capital: Addis Ababa
Goverment: Monarchy
Economy: 1 MBP
Population: 2 MP 8 million

substracting 2 HBPs and 30 million for Farijistan there's still 5 HBPs and 46 million people not accounted for.

I would say New Zion could get 2-3 BP, $48, and 24 million. Smaller than Farijistan but still big enough to  annoy and to form a potential player nation.

[P3D]

New Zion have 18 million pop, 9IC, 0.5BP, $19.8 revenue. Based on historical figures and being generous. I am ignoring Dougwise's figures for a PC nation, as he did effectively nothing. The same applies for Nigeria - which is an even more backward colony/third world power.

Egypt is around 3BP, 25-30 million and a revenue around $50.

Firanj is somewhat less powerful.

[Earl822]

P3D

Those figures make New Zion unplayable, which should not be the aim here, in fact with those figures, NZ couldn't even afford an army/Navy big enough to hold Egypt, or any other nation off.

[P3D]

New Zion is not supposed to be a player country. There's enough of them available. It is protected by Egypt against the Italians, and by Italy against the French. $20 is enough to maintain 5 corps, which, on the defensive, is enough to discourage any would-be attackers. Neither Italy nor DKB has sufficient harbor infrastructure to attack by more than a handful of corps. Egypt could not attack without full mobilization - which might just be an invitation to Italy to try to expand the Libyan border to the East.

And wars are pretty expensive.

[Desertfox]

But thats barely enough to survive. 0.5 BP is not enought for even a decent torpedo boat force. And if all NPCs are so weak we will be able to practicly walk over them. If Firajistan has less than Egypt (say 2 BP, 20 million, $40) Ill be able to walk over it. It wont be able to afford any super cruisers or other annoying weapons. If New Zion cant build anything, Swampy wont have a need for Lake ships, or pre-emptive strikes. How are we going to have fun then? NPCs should at least be strong enough to annoy.

[P3D]

Firanjistan: you are welcome to try. There might be nations who won't like it. I can count at least two, nevermind a few who would help them just because NS attacked Firanj.

There are small NPCs, so what? If Swampy do not need lake ships, he won't build them. I will not litter the globe with $40-income nations just because you want them.

[Desertfox]

Historicly there where a lot of medium powers. The ABC ones all had dreadnoughts in their fleets. However here are rules are so strict that the only way they would get Dreadnoughts would be building them themselves. Littering the globe with $40 nations is not going to change the balance of power one bit but will make the world a more lively place. Look at the economic report. Only Iberia (8 BP, $94) and Japan (7 BP, $96) have less that 10 BP and $100. Giving NPCs 1-3 BPs, and $30-50, is not going to affect anyone, while making everything more interesting.