Ships of the Mark: 1907

[Korpen]

Very nice ship!

Just to complete the list of 1907 warships:
Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28,500 shp / 21,261 Kw = 20.14 kts
   Range 5,750nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,028 tons)

But how much is coal, and how much is oli?

[Ithekro]

60% coal

[Ithekro]

Rohan has not new ship types planned for 1908 and is content to build vessel types from 1906 and 1907 to fill in some large gaps in the fleet.

It will also attempt to rebuild (or if necessary reconstruct) the battleships Theoden and Goldwine.  There engines will be improved with a more moderns and faster engine (bringing them from 15 knots to 16.5 knots to match the Eomer and Elfwine-class),  Their main battery will be improved to the 1902 standard of 12 inch cannons as well as B turret being superimposed to give it a better field of fire.  Their magazines will be cut in half however.  The additional space will be turned over to modern equipment such as wireless and room for future Fire Control positions.  Their tonnage increases by 716 light tons.  (the other guns may also be refitted to 1902 standards)

At least that is the plan.


Theoden as coverted in 1908

Rohan Battleship laid down 1893 (Engine 1901)

Displacement:
   12,990 t light; 13,600 t standard; 14,550 t normal; 15,252 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 69.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 21.03 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      14 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1893 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1893 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9,111 lbs / 4,133 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 60

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,088 ihp / 7,525 Kw = 16.56 kts
   Range 5,250nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,710 tons)

Complement:
   662 - 861

Cost:
   £1.593 million / $6.372 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,092 tons, 7.5 %
   Armour: 4,807 tons, 33.0 %
      - Belts: 2,717 tons, 18.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,222 tons, 8.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 727 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 141 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,576 tons, 10.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,464 tons, 37.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,560 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,458 lbs / 6,104 Kg = 15.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.98
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.714
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.88 ft / 4.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,188 Square feet or 2,433 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 747 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Theoden (original design)

Rohan Battleship laid down 1893

Displacement:
   12,274 t light; 13,329 t standard; 14,387 t normal; 15,176 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 69.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 21.03 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1893 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      14 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1893 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1893 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,739 lbs / 3,964 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,000 ihp / 5,222 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 5,250nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,904 tons)

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.519 million / $6.077 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,092 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 4,763 tons, 33.1 %
      - Belts: 2,717 tons, 18.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,186 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 721 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,228 tons, 8.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,191 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,113 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,623 lbs / 6,633 Kg = 16.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.88 ft / 4.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,974 Square feet or 2,413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 714 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

I'd change the new engine so its weight would be the same as the old one. That's the most you can put into the existing machinery spaces. Also, increase range so bunkerage would also be the same.
Although it can be argued that the increased efficency of the new boilers allows to expand machinery spaces on the bunker's expense with converting bunker space to boiler.

If you are increasing the weight, increase the draught and decrease the freeboard with the same amount. Draught change could even be be calculated by waterplane area.

[Ithekro]

How does this grab you?  I'd still rather she could make 16.5 knots so they both could at least keep up with the other three pre-Arcadias.  (oil is 10% only)

Theoden

Rohan Battleship laid down 1893 (Engine 1901)

Displacement:
   12,756 t light; 13,689 t standard; 14,714 t normal; 15,475 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.00 ft / 470.00 ft x 69.00 ft x 22.50 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 143.26 m x 21.03 m  x 6.86 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns in single mounts, 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      14 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1902 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1902 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,739 lbs / 3,964 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,451 ihp / 6,304 Kw = 15.76 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,845 tons)

Complement:
   667 - 868

Cost:
   £1.544 million / $6.177 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,092 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 4,784 tons, 32.5 %
      - Belts: 2,717 tons, 18.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,203 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 721 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 142 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,287 tons, 8.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,492 tons, 37.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,958 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,245 lbs / 6,461 Kg = 16.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.50 ft / 6.55 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Stern:      11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.38 ft / 4.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,974 Square feet or 2,413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 756 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

As I mentioned before, you could expand the boiler space on the expense of the bunkers. But leave a small amount of reserve hull strength for the additional bracings.
However, this rebuild would cost you a lot. The only reason I can think of for keeping these slow ships in comission is their combat record...

[Ithekro]

Well it should cost less to do both ships than to building one new capital ship and will get done quicker.  They might not be fast, but  they are armed heavily enough to make a difference in combat against most existing warships and some early Dreadnoughts.  They will be good for defense or trade protection as a deterrent to attacks by anything short of a battlecruiser.  They can take a hit from a submarine, though that doesn't mean much.  They also have a good record in combat to date.  With them rebuilt and later Elfwine rebuilt, the five older battleships will be relatively the same in terms of firepower, thus allowing for the even older Bregos and the currect generation of Coastal Battleships to be retired from service. (which should take a few more older gun types out of service).

[Ithekro]

Rohan will laydown two more Silvertine-class belted cruisers in 1908 as well as a third Battlecruiser later in the year.  If the funds are there, the Theoden and Goldwine will be rebuilt starting later in the year.