Maps

[Earl822]

Simple question here, if we are going for a semi-run on from the current sim, does the ACM even exist anymore, if not, in theory the old UKA/new UK would have its resources. I think what I'm trying to say is do I get the Azores HBP.

Oh and that seems good, excepting the Atlantis bit.

[Desertfox]

Basiclly the NS discussion is for an England size island between the Hawaian and Marshall Islands. Having ME in the North Pacific would put serious dents into NS.

I think it would be best to leave Rohan where it is in NA, otherwise there are too many changes. However there can be some changes to the NA geography to fit Rohan better.

Speaking of NA, I dont need so much of Alaska give the Canadian parts to the EK. A Boneville lake would replace the Haven but with a smaller UKA the Great Plains are open...

If Rohan remains in NA we can have the other ME islands in the SP, that place is just way too lonely.

A smaller Atlantis could remain as the home of the ACM.

Ithekro push the northern part of ME in, it looks odd so far out, and I dont need so much of Alaska.

[Ithekro]

Why do you need a island between the Marshals and Hawaii when you can have Numenor be Hawaii instead.

Getting rid of Atlantis might fit better, or placing an enlarged island mass that could handle the ACM in its place might work for continuity.  If we are going to remove the ACM we'll need to settle on where the ACM ships came from (and if there is to be an Agrival Mars in the story).

I almost like the ME on NA that goes out to Alaska...makes the area around Anchorage a very save harbor, but also makes it like the Black Sea with only one way out.

Rohan's placement seems to have been for the purpose of ruining the New Swiss goals for trade monopoly in the Pacific Ocean  :P
Considering the relation ship the two nations have had, I'd almost expect it to be better if Rohan was in the way, as it would be the other half of a trading partnership (taking the Eastern Pacific, while the Swiss take the Western Pacific).  If Rohan remains on its own continent, then the Swiss will need to use Numenor as "Hawaii" - former ACM property, to get stuff around to the Americas.

With Gianormas Australia, I'd almost say the Swiss settled their instead of Japan,  Or have the larger set of islands in the Indian Ocean be New Switzerland?  You'll need to explain or find someone to play your continent mate for your inner seas battleship wars.  Perhaps the continent was all New Switzerland and Australia at one time, and the China-Swiss war has the same effect it did as before, but resulted in a civil war on the continent?  Or Dutch-Swiss war for the continent?   I don't know.

I'm just hoping we can find a usable map out of all this work that doesn't just put us back to square one.

[P3D]

Borys might be interested again learning that we only had redrawn the map, keeping most stuff.

[P3D]

This should be a better map to see where Middle Earth would fit.

[Desertfox]

I want to keep Hawaii separate from Numenor.

Hmm the Anchorage sea does look interesting,

I have no problem with Rohan in NA, but ME as a separate island in the NP really ruins my plans! As NS will be sandwiched between Japan, Rohan, and the DKB! Not enough breathing room or need for long legged ships.

In Australia, I might just create a new country and play it myself. That way I can script my own wars and battles! I liked Farinj, and a muslim Western Australia would be very interesting.

[Ithekro]

I thought that was the basic idea.  Reorder the world then plug everything back into place as best we can, as if it was the 1906 after our last sim turn together in Navalism at the end of 1904.  A few things would be removed.  Other things would be altered, but hopefully not enough to seriously alter what has been done, but still leave enough room for growth, both with existing players and for new players.

The proposed additions to the Player Nations is suppose to be justified by having enough space for the 1904 population numbers that wre a source of complaint.  The industtial capacity and military might wasn't to be altered much more than can be done in a year unless it is needed and approved by the Mods.  At least that is how I was viewing things.

New Continents and altered continents is a go with the flow type deal.  Several of the alterations will shift some balances of power and distribution of forces and people, but most of the alterations shouldn't effect previous stories too much.  That's why I'm trying to be careful about ME's placement.  Get it in the wrong place and the stories don't work, where in other places it actually might work better for some, and worse for others (justifying some of the reations from before 1904 to things like the ACM's fall, and the situations with the Swiss all over the Pacific).

The French can still close the "Suez" to traffic, but Austrian expaditionary forces to the Americas would need to cross a little land first, or hire ships out of Spain and Africa to sent over their forces, thus all those purchases of liners and such for Brazil and other operations.

Africa and Asia have different problems.  Most will depend on who goes where, who stays where, and how things play(ed) out.  The Swiss-China War is one of those things.  Was it really China and Japan at war, or was it still Swiss over trade cities and islands, while Japan fought China in the north?

Russia can be dealt with since unfortunately (or fortunately) olekit didn't do a lot with it that effected others (other than intimedation value factors).  So effectively the Russian Empire can be broken down into many kingdoms, empires, and serfdoms.

Ottomans still in play means we have muslims at least in the Middle East.  A Christian or Coptic based Empire in Egypt might work as a counter.  I don't know if anyone wants to deal with Judaism here or not, or if where should be a Zoinist movement to return to Israel as there was in this time historically.

A buddist, daoist, or hindu set of nations for the rest of Asia would also be warrented if the major colonies aren't in play for the Europeans.

Protestent verse Catholics may still be in play.  That is if the Normans aren't celtic or gaelic in majority (still could be Christian).  

The given UK with the reductions in North America look like a fairly typical mercantile trade empire of the 1700s (slaves from Liberia - Bahamas for rum, rum to the colonies for wood, wood to iceland for mining, materials to Norman for riches---riches to Liberia for slaves)  The ACM might have been a driving force in as the middlemen in the slave trade (to keep the nobles hands clean) before the Confederates (or whoever) broke way and the ACM struck out for profit in other places around the globe.  If this is the case, the ACM, not the "half-elves" were the prime movers for France's and the UK's goods until recently.  The UK managing to have enough shipping of there own for the northern routes to keep trade going (slowly), while France is trying to pick up the pieces over the major lose of their colonial shipping capacity.  (does that make sense?)

Anyplace else need adjusting to plotline in relation to the maps?

[P3D]

I'll ask Borys if he'd be interested agin, if this is the current setup.

Israel and Judaism. I think we might be able to give them a New Kanaan somewhere, which was the target of the Exodus: Argentina or the West Pacific NA coast - assuming we find a place for Rohan.

[Ithekro]

I don't know if I can curve the flat projection I have of Middle Earth correctly.  It looks like it can fit as the scale looks like it is 90% of the other maps, its just a matter of placement verses the desired of the New Swiss, Brandenburg, climate, and not getting too close to the main continents...unless we want to use that for story purposes.

[swamphen]

Here's my proposal for a Rohan-remains-in-NA scenario. Note expanded Confederacy, expanded California, relocated Haven/Turtle Island, NS Pacific Islands. Would require an adjustment to GC removing the EK from the scenario though.



For an Israel...perhaps that peninsula on the eastern side of the Caspian Sea?

[swamphen]

(note...map in last post edited to include South Pacific Island.)

Perhaps the ACM could be on the Chagos (Central Indian Ocean Archipelago) in this world?

[Ithekro]

Nice.  Foxy said he doesn't need so much of Alaska, so an EK can be placed with no access to water, or in the Sea of Anchorage...which would be a good reason to have a little scuffle over the rights to the port of there are only a few there.

The Great White North could be natives as well, or just an area left alone as reletively unihabitable....maybe claimed by one or more parties but not worth fighting over (Whatsamatta U. could be there)

[P3D]

I think Rohan should still get California+Alaska+some of the Great Plains. My fist estimate for a "British Columbia", from Alaska to Baja California, had a population of 50 million - IRL population is not much either.

I'll post some continental maps of based on this.

Actually, we can place New Kanaan in Central Asia. Historical justification is the Kazar empire, which converted to Judaism in the VIIIth century to obtain religious freedom from the Byzantine and the Kaliphate.

About the EK, I think we should just delete the whole chain and give the Caribbean to GC. There won't be a nation called EK, it was someone's bad dream and that's it.

[Ithekro]

Well we can say up to the Sea of Rhun is the Middle Earth type map (present eastern border of Rohan, which would be the Rocky Mountains I think).  Then we just extend Rohan back out to it's old Navalism borders based on the Rivers (Missouri, Green, and such) as it was before.

I don't know about the move farther north, but that could be arranged I suppose if there is no contest for the land aside from natives and cold.  (I think the original Middle Earth border was on the edge of the polar regions and the mountains that ran along the northern wastes.)

Perhaps Grand Columbia moving in to take the Island Commonwealth after the recent Confederate War with the Commonwealth instead?

[Desertfox]

The CSA move north looks strange. Maybe do a Here Be Zulus, or in this case Sioux.

Id like to keep the Ek mainly just to scuffle with. The IC problem can be attributed to the Mesoamericans with ACM help (which is what I was doing at Navalism ver1)

ACM in the Chagos would be interesting.

Swampy I dont need so many islands just Numenor, Hawaii, whats left of New Guinea, and the Moluccas but without Celebes.