Capital ships design studies from the Netherlands

[Korpen]

No picture as it is mainly a study of how close to the Lion one can get.

Modell fem, Netherlands Frigatte laid down 1909

Displacement:
   17 856 t light; 18 997 t standard; 20 312 t normal; 21 364 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   688,98 ft / 688,98 ft x 75,46 ft x 27,30 ft (normal load)
   210,00 m / 210,00 m x 23,00 m  x 8,32 m

Armament:
      8 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 308,20lbs / 593,39kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 37,48lbs / 17,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 14 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 11 065 lbs / 5 019 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 118

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,45" / 240 mm   394,03 ft / 120,10 m   15,58 ft / 4,75 m
   Ends:   2,05" / 52 mm   294,95 ft / 89,90 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      8,66" / 220 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,01" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48 000 shp / 35 808 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 367 tons

Complement:
   849 - 1 105

Cost:
   £2,081 million / $8,322 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 369 tons, 6,7 %
   Armour: 5 574 tons, 27,4 %
      - Belts: 2 708 tons, 13,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 452 tons, 7,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 288 tons, 6,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 126 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 2 182 tons, 10,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 400 tons, 41,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 456 tons, 12,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20 815 lbs / 9 442 Kg = 15,9 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 16,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,97
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,501
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Stern:      15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,06 ft / 4,90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 34 669 Square feet or 3 221 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 800 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,07
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

She is as fast as it is possible to make a larger ship (and the thing i wanted to try).

[Borys]

Ahoj!
To sim the HSM Lion I think you should use 1250 lbs shells.
Borys

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
To sim the HSM Lion I think you should use 1250 lbs shells.
Borys

Sure, and 343mm guns.
Think of it more like an attempt to sim the spirit of Lion. :)

[Borys]

OK - the spirit was simmed :)
Borys

[Sachmle]

I've never seen a simmed spirt before, she looks purty.

[Korpen]

A new sloop for independent trade protection duties at the high seas. Some range had to be sacrificed to keep the speed close to acceptable (alos the reason for the ridiculously low BC, but that is what HP limitations does), TBs have been dispensed with as the risk from mines and torpedoes are miniscule for a ship in her role.

Design 1047, Kingdom Trade protection sloop laid down 1912

Displacement:
   17 850 t light; 19 019 t standard; 20 830 t normal; 22 280 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 75,46 ft x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 23,00 m  x 8,50 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8 783 lbs / 3 984 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 151
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   433,07 ft / 132,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   3,15" / 80 mm   288,68 ft / 87,99 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   4,72" / 120 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1,77" / 45 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80 000 shp / 59 680 Kw = 28,67 kts
   Range 9 515nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 261 tons

Complement:
   866 - 1 127

Cost:
   £1,984 million / $7,936 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 087 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 4 884 tons, 23,4 %
      - Belts: 2 034 tons, 9,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 132 tons, 5,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 558 tons, 7,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 161 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 3 190 tons, 15,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 370 tons, 40,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 980 tons, 14,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21 449 lbs / 9 729 Kg = 16,4 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,67 ft / 5,08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 643 Square feet or 3 311 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 762 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

The BC is rather low, as you say. 

What're the torpedoes for?  Aren't they just a liability on a ship apparently tailored for long-range shooting?

And why is this a sloop, rather than an armored frigate?

[Korpen]

The BC is rather low, as you say. 

range shooting?

Not at all, even if they would explode (unlikely, even in the event of a direct hit), just two torpedoes will not cause much damage.
They are there for the simple reason that is takes excessive amounts of shells to get an enemy ship from "crippled (by gunfire)"  to "sunk", and as the ship is intended to operate independently, there will be no Destroyers about to fullfill the mission of torpedoing crippled enemy ships.

And why is this a sloop, rather than an armored frigate?

As she is intended for trade protection.

[Valles]

Battlecruiser, meh.

350mm battleship guns seem excessive to me for the described role. Heck, the 250mm ones I'm planning to put in my equivalent are kinda big for it, I think.

[Korpen]

Was able to squeeze out a bit more speed, increased it to 29kts.

Had to sacrifice a bit of range, which is a serious drawback but as about 29kts is the minimum speed for the ship to be able to fulfil its basic function, it will have to be acceptable.

Design 1048, Kingdom Trade protection sloop laid down 1912

Displacement:
   17 332 t light; 18 382 t standard; 19 930 t normal; 21 168 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 75,46 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 23,00 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8 783 lbs / 3 984 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 131
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   449,48 ft / 137,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   2,76" / 70 mm   272,31 ft / 83,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80 041 shp / 59 711 Kw = 28,99 kts
   Range 8 200nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 786 tons

Complement:
   838 - 1 090

Cost:
   £1,966 million / $7,865 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 087 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 4 342 tons, 21,8 %
      - Belts: 2 025 tons, 10,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 974 tons, 4,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 249 tons, 6,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 94 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 3 191 tons, 16,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 392 tons, 42,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 598 tons, 13,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 842 lbs / 9 000 Kg = 15,2 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,434
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,67 ft / 5,08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 34 298 Square feet or 3 186 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 776 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,16
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Sachmle]

Block coefficient: 0,434

Wow!! I'm well aware of the sacrifices that must be made in the pursuit of the "almighty knot" but that's a reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaally low BC for a 17k ship, no?

[Desertfox]

The Swiss lost the war, but they gained a convert. Now THAT is a ship any Swiss would be proud of. Blazing fast, heavy guns, and umm ah armor?

[Korpen]

The Swiss lost the war, but they gained a convert. Now THAT is a ship any Swiss would be proud of. Blazing fast, heavy guns, and umm ah armor?

Well, it is nothing that have not been in the planning for years, and i think i come to such designs from a very different angle then the Swiss.
Basically i will build such ships because I cannot afford to build smaller cruisers (4-5kton).

[The Rock Doctor]

I thought the previous version's BC was on the low side, but this version is definitely far too low for my liking.

[P3D]

And I was told by someone that a BC of 0.500 is too low for a battlecruiser  :P