Capital ships design studies from the Netherlands

[Korpen]

Yes, boring me, one more design.
But I have been having some real trouble deciding on how the armour should be distributed on this ship. After some thinking I have narrowed it down to three alternative distributions of the belts. All three alternative have identical weight.

Compared to earlier designs range have been cut, this is due to the fairly shallow belt. A large difference in draft as the ships is using up fuel is seen as a risk as it mean that the belt might risk being submerged while close to full load, or exposed if much of the bunkers are empty.

Armour scheme 1: The one I am favouring at the moment. The 26cm main belt does offer adequate protection against most guns carried by armoured cruisers, at can stop 30cm+ shells at long range. The 127mm upper belt offer good protection against light and medium calibre fire, as well as aiding enormously in the protection of the deck. Without an upper belt, the fairly thin deck is horribly exposed. In all the scheme is considered a good compromise, giving adequate protected volume cover against a multitude of threats.

Armour scheme 2: Thickening the fairly narrow main belt to 30cm, but only leaving 5cm splinter protection for the upper belt. Probably the beast layout for a knife edge fight against enemy battleships, but due to the narrow belt and quite small protected volume she is much more vulnerable to massed medium calibre fire, as well as longer range heavy guns due to the pretty no-existent cover of the deck afforded by the thin upper belt. It also gives less extra protection to the barbarettes.

Armour scheme 3: The other extreme, 225mm main belt and 192mm upper belt.
This scheme optimize performance against smaller ships by maximising her protection against the guns carried by armoured cruisers and smaller ship (<24cm), it also give a much needed extra protection to the barbarettes. However it is suffering from an inability to protect against heavier shells at anything but the most extreme of ranges, and it can be penetrated by smaller guns at short range.


Type XXXI, Netherlands BC laid down 1909

Displacement:
   15 000 t light; 16 044 t standard; 17 755 t normal; 19 124 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   566,27 ft / 566,27 ft x 76,77 ft x 27,17 ft (normal load)
   172,60 m / 172,60 m x 23,40 m  x 8,28 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 903,90lbs / 410,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,59" / 15,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,10lbs / 0,05kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      1 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,81lbs / 1,73kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing gun in casemate mount
     on centreline aft
     1 gun in hull casemate - Limited use in all but light seas
   Weight of broadside 8 082 lbs / 3 666 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour scheme 1
Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   234,91 ft / 71,60 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   6,63 ft / 2,02 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
Armour scheme 2
Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   234,91 ft / 71,60 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   2,07" / 53 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   6,63 ft / 2,02 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
Armour scheme 3
Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,86" / 225 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   234,91 ft / 71,60 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   7,56" / 192 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   6,63 ft / 2,02 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   4,72" / 120 mm      7,48" / 190 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,01" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48 003 shp / 35 810 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 080 tons

Complement:
   768 - 999

Cost:
   £1,647 million / $6,587 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 972 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 4 940 tons, 27,8 %
      - Belts: 2 563 tons, 14,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 188 tons, 6,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 102 tons, 6,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 87 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 2 182 tons, 12,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 587 tons, 37,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 755 tons, 15,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 893 lbs / 9 023 Kg = 23,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 16,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21,33 ft / 6,50 m (20,34 ft / 6,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (67 %):      16,73 ft / 5,10 m (13,45 ft / 4,10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Stern:      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,82 ft / 5,43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 29 673 Square feet or 2 757 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,58
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

EDIT: Borys got the idea, I am looking for suggestions on what scheme to use.

[Borys]

Dreadnaught Gunned Armoured Cruiser

Scheme III

[P3D]

F the ship is to face 9"-gunned ACs, sheme III.0
If battleships are not out of the question, I'd prefer Scheme II with at least 3" upper armor (against 6" shells). Save that, scheme I offers thicker main belt which can defeat 12" guns at range. 7.5" armor might not do much against large caliber shells.

And I'd shorten the ship by 2.66m to fit in the NOI drydocks, even if it costs 0.2 or 0.3 knots.

[Ithekro]

Why do you have the machine guns and other very light weapons in lowered casemate mounts?

[Korpen]

Why do you have the machine guns and other very light weapons in lowered casemate mounts?

Point-blank close in defence, and just maybe of some use as anti torpedo guns. All those guns are mounted in the stern, so it is hoped that they can be used against ships or torpedos closing from the rear.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Regardless of armour scheme used, the conning tower sould be 10+ inches.
For period flavour.
Borys

[Desertfox]

Hmmm Lion style. Looks like I'll have to find another main gun arrangement for my planned Independance class BCs.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
A benefit of this ship is that it is cheap.
Borys

[Korpen]

Willem Janszson-class BC

The drawing need more work with details such as the ships boats...
Willem Janszson, Netherlands Armoured frigate laid down 1909

Displacement:
   15 300 t light; 16 350 t standard; 18 085 t normal; 19 473 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   592,33 ft / 578,74 ft x 77,26 ft x 27,23 ft (normal load)
   180,54 m / 176,40 m x 23,55 m  x 8,30 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 903,90lbs / 410,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,59" / 15,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,10lbs / 0,05kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline, all aft
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      1 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,81lbs / 1,73kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing gun in casemate mount
     on centreline aft
     1 gun in hull casemate - Limited use in all but light seas
   Weight of broadside 8 082 lbs / 3 666 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,92" / 252 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   247,38 ft / 75,40 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   5,12" / 130 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   4,92" / 125 mm      8,27" / 210 mm
   2nd:   1,77" / 45 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,01" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 9,45" / 240 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48 008 shp / 35 814 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 123 tons

Complement:
   779 - 1 013

Cost:
   £1,657 million / $6,629 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 972 tons, 5,4 %
   Armour: 5 106 tons, 28,2 %
      - Belts: 2 532 tons, 14,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 307 tons, 7,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 127 tons, 6,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 2 182 tons, 12,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 720 tons, 37,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 785 tons, 15,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20 422 lbs / 9 263 Kg = 23,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21,33 ft / 6,50 m (20,34 ft / 6,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (60 %):      16,73 ft / 5,10 m (13,45 ft / 4,10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Stern:      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,45 ft / 5,32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 30 341 Square feet or 2 819 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 731 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,49
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Feedback appreciated! :)

[miketr]

Well its a good solid cruiser to be sure.  My opinion I suspect is the same as last time / if said anything before.

Armor is good for smaller guns or long range fire, secondaries are numberous but they are light.  Range is her best selling point; excellent ship for cruising.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

not a bad ship i rather like it.  if i wasnt refusing to build BCs id proly build somthing similar

[Ithekro]

Why does it have two 15mm guns and one 50 mm gun, all in casemates?

[Korpen]

Why does it have two 15mm guns and one 50 mm gun, all in casemates?

AH, thanks, I knew I had forgotten something on the drawing.
All three weapons is mounted in the stern, intended for close in defence against enemy TBs, and possibly the torpedoes themself.
An enemy closing from behind have to get VERY close to be able to fire, so close in fact that the other weapons might be masked (as in less then 500m).

[P3D]

I see the ship is flush-decked with decks sloped aft. I'd say the belt armor should follow the deck lines, and not have that ugly gap between the upper edge and the freeboard. Upper belt should also be 2.8-3m deep, even if 4" thick (based on ~5m freeboard amidship)
Thin the main belt down to 9" to compensate for the weight increase.

I'd put an extra inch of armor on the turret face, as it should be always facing the enemy unlike the belt (not if you decrease MB thickness).

[Korpen]

I see the ship is flush-decked with decks sloped aft. I'd say the belt armor should follow the deck lines, and not have that ugly gap between the upper edge and the freeboard. Upper belt should also be 2.8-3m deep, even if 4" thick (based on ~5m freeboard amidship)
Thin the main belt down to 9" to compensate for the weight increase.

If it was a traditional upper belt, then yes, I agree with you. But on this ship the upper belt is more an extension of the main belt then anything else, in fact, i think i will split the upper belt in two, and place half of it under the main belt, and then raise the entire belt half a meter. That would give the belt a depth of 2,25m below the waterline and 3,5m above.

I'd put an extra inch of armor on the turret face, as it should be always facing the enemy unlike the belt (not if you decrease MB thickness).

Well the 25cm she got should be able to stop a soft-capped 30,5cm shell at around 9000m, so I think it is enough, and not worth scarifying main belt to improve.