Capital ships design studies from the Netherlands

[Korpen]

And I was told by someone that a BC of 0.500 is too low for a battlecruiser  :P

I am not pretending that the some aspects of the ships make sense, but considering the rules some insane details in necessary to get sane capacity.
:)

[Korpen]

A study in how a ship design primarily to butcher light cruisers and torpedo boats. Capable of sending more then 40 24cm shells towards the enemy every minute, it should be enough to rapidly put smaller cruisers and destroyers on the way to a date with Neptune. Unlike most Dutch ships and studies it is ship putting priority on "rain of steel", rather then weight of shell.
Not convinced by the concept, but it should be devastating against lightly (>10cm) armoured ships, and shrapnel volleys should shred torpedo boats quite nicely.

LC Killer, Netherlands Armoured frigate laid down 1912

Displacement:
   16 007 t light; 16 987 t standard; 18 525 t normal; 19 756 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   606,11 ft / 592,52 ft x 77,10 ft x 27,23 ft (normal load)
   184,74 m / 180,60 m x 23,50 m  x 8,30 m

Armament:
      15 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (5x3 guns), 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,59" / 15,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,10lbs / 0,05kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline, all aft
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      1 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,81lbs / 1,73kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing gun in casemate mount
     on centreline aft
     1 gun in hull casemate - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 7 134 lbs / 3 236 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,46" / 215 mm   330,05 ft / 100,60 m   12,30 ft / 3,75 m
   Ends:   2,76" / 70 mm   262,47 ft / 80,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   4,92" / 125 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   4,92" / 125 mm      8,27" / 210 mm
   2nd:   1,77" / 45 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,52" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 9,45" / 240 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 65 219 shp / 48 654 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 769 tons

Complement:
   793 - 1 032

Cost:
   £1,678 million / $6,711 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 897 tons, 4,8 %
   Armour: 5 415 tons, 29,2 %
      - Belts: 2 245 tons, 12,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 580 tons, 8,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 447 tons, 7,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 143 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 2 600 tons, 14,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 775 tons, 36,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 518 tons, 13,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20 323 lbs / 9 218 Kg = 48,2 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 16,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,521
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Mid (60 %):      17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Stern:      17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,80 ft / 5,42 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 31 037 Square feet or 2 883 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 717 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

That would be hell on wheels in a close-quarters night fight.

[Valles]

Niiiiice. I take it that the main gun layout is a sort of reverse Agincourt? That is, Low-High-Low-Superstructure-High-Low? I ask because my first impression was of a baby Cross Mirage layout - Low-High-Bridge-Low-BoatShed-High-Low

[Desertfox]

Not enough guns... :P

Heck New Switzerland is probably building this: http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/kamina_f.htm

[Korpen]

That would be hell on wheels in a close-quarters night fight.

I know this might come as a shock, but it is a ship, it does not have weels...

Niiiiice. I take it that the main gun layout is a sort of reverse Agincourt? That is, Low-High-Low-Superstructure-High-Low? I ask because my first impression was of a baby Cross Mirage layout - Low-High-Bridge-Low-BoatShed-High-Low

Would be easier to say that the arrangment would be like a broolyn-class light cruiser.

Not enough guns... :P

Heck New Switzerland is probably building this: http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/kamina_f.htm

That design only adds one main gun, and suffers from weapon shrinkage. ;)

[Desertfox]

Twin 8" turrets have a considerably higher ROF than triple 9.45" turrets... ;) Still it would be most impressive to have these two ships and the Gin Palace in a shootout!

[Korpen]

Design that the Netherlands consider building in 1912, or more, likley 1913.
A very conventional battleships, speed is the same as the preceading class, protection increased a bit, mainly the horizontal armour.

BB1912, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912

Displacement:
   23 500 t light; 25 367 t standard; 27 428 t normal; 29 077 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,74 ft / 557,74 ft x 88,58 ft (Bulges 95,14 ft) x 28,50 ft (normal load)
   170,00 m / 170,00 m x 27,00 m (Bulges 29,00 m)  x 8,69 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15 573 lbs / 7 064 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   3,35" / 85 mm   216,54 ft / 66,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   7,09" / 180 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,57" / 40 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   29,36 ft / 8,95 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      13,0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,59" / 15 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,62" / 92 mm, Conning tower: 12,99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 35 000 shp / 26 110 Kw = 21,11 kts
   Range 9 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 709 tons

Complement:
   1 065 - 1 385

Cost:
   £2,541 million / $10,165 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 814 tons, 6,6 %
   Armour: 9 979 tons, 36,4 %
      - Belts: 3 918 tons, 14,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 584 tons, 2,1 %
      - Armament: 2 721 tons, 9,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2 501 tons, 9,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 255 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 1 396 tons, 5,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 952 tons, 36,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 928 tons, 14,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 360 tons, 1,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33 526 lbs / 15 207 Kg = 20,0 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 5,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 17,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,635
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m (16,40 ft / 5,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (69 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,32 ft / 5,28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 37 319 Square feet or 3 467 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 190 lbs/sq ft or 928 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,49
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


So, is she worth the ammout of steel she will cost?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Nice, for 500 tonnes more than my Schlachtshiffe 1912 class you have almost 50% more firepower (5000 lbs versus 7228 lbs).

But isn't the fireplatform rating a bit low?

Borys

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
Nice, for 500 tonnes more than my Schlachtshiffe 1912 class you have almost 50% more firepower (5000 lbs versus 7228 lbs).

But isn't the fireplatform rating a bit low?

Borys

That should be Kg, not Lb ;)

Do not feel her steadness is on the low side, it is mor then what is avarage, and a 27kton ship is a steady platform in itself.
Alos increasing that would reduce stabillity, and that is already lower then I like.

[The Rock Doctor]

A powerful ship, to be sure.  How does she fit into your operational concepts - centrepiece for either NEI or Home Fleet, or part of your "trouble-shooting" squadron?

[Borys]

Actually, my goof was mutliplying by 4, not 8 :)

So the correct figures are 10000 vs 14456 lbs.

Borys

[Korpen]

A powerful ship, to be sure.  How does she fit into your operational concepts - centrepiece for either NEI or Home Fleet, or part of your "trouble-shooting" squadron?

Leader of the BB divison, despite not liking single-ship classes, i will build one BB and on Frigate more, allowing me to form three captial ship divisions each of three ships with identical speeds. So her function will basically be identical to the existing two BBs.  

[The Rock Doctor]

She will be your Superbe, then...

So that's three BB and six frigates planned?

[Korpen]

She will be your Superbe, then...

Unfourtanely yes. 
I really dislike building a fleet of one-offs, but building one of each makes more sense at as that creates a better balance at the fleet level. 

So that's three BB and six frigates planned?

Yes, three frigates and two BBs is already in service, so four more ships will be built in the next few years.