Glorious French cruisers

[maddox]

2 designs proposed for the Amble class cruiser layed down HY2 1906.

Griffon, French cruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
   8.134 t light; 8.420 t standard; 9.523 t normal; 10.405 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   431,43 ft / 426,51 ft x 72,18 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   131,50 m / 130,00 m x 22,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      4 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns (2x2 guns), 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1901 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (2x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1.538 lbs / 698 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   196,85 ft / 60,00 m   10,20 ft / 3,11 m
   Ends:   3,15" / 80 mm   229,63 ft / 69,99 m   10,20 ft / 3,11 m
   Upper:   7,09" / 180 mm   196,85 ft / 60,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 71% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   4,72" / 120 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   7,09" / 180 mm   3,15" / 80 mm      3,15" / 80 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15.713 ihp / 11.722 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.985 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   481 - 626

Cost:
   £0,760 million / $3,042 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 192 tons, 2,0%
   Armour: 2.754 tons, 28,9%
      - Belts: 1.574 tons, 16,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 359 tons, 3,8%
      - Armour Deck: 782 tons, 8,2%
      - Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 2.245 tons, 23,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.923 tons, 30,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.389 tons, 14,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12.058 lbs / 5.469 Kg = 53,3 x 7,7 " / 195 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,42
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 12,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Stern:      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,67 ft / 4,78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,9%
   Waterplane Area: 21.484 Square feet or 1.996 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,54
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Or the much more expensive but heavier armed and surprisingly good looking design from the new yards at Halifax.

Pegasse, French large cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   10.973 t light; 11.504 t standard; 12.613 t normal; 13.501 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   531,50 ft / 524,93 ft x 82,02 ft x 20,14 ft (normal load)
   162,00 m / 160,00 m x 25,00 m  x 6,14 m

Armament:
      6 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 634,55lbs / 287,83kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5.856 lbs / 2.656 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   295,28 ft / 90,00 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 87% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   4,72" / 120 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   3,94" / 100 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 34.731 shp / 25.910 Kw = 24,00 kts
   Range 7.450nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.997 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   594 - 773

Cost:
   £1,227 million / $4,909 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 714 tons, 5,7%
   Armour: 3.241 tons, 25,7%
      - Belts: 1.552 tons, 12,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 777 tons, 6,2%
      - Armour Deck: 843 tons, 6,7%
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 1.737 tons, 13,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.181 tons, 41,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.640 tons, 13,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16.933 lbs / 7.681 Kg = 26,7 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 14,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Stern:      16,04 ft / 4,89 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,13 ft / 5,22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151,0%
   Waterplane Area: 28.924 Square feet or 2.687 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 653 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,49
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
There is something very wrong with the first design. Simply not enough bang on an 8K ton hull.
The second is a powerfull AC.
Borys

[P3D]

The first one would be obsolete launched 5 years before.
The second design is a slow BC. However, if France has some differences with the DKB (and there were some regarding Brazil) I'd consider the design obsolete - inferior than the twins in every regard (firepower, protection, speed, range). And the secondary armament is excessive.

[maddox]

Both ships have wildely different purposes.   

Griffon is a screening vessel for the battlefleet. The 4 195mm guns can add their volume to the flying shells in the battle line.
The 105's and 70mm are meant to keep away the TB's and destroyers. It's range and speed are the same as the battleships,as well seakeeping to hold the speed in most if not all seastates.
The lack of French domesticaly build steam turbines gave these ships VTE's.

The Pegasse is ment to be a scout and a raider hunter. The 275mm guns can hurt most battleships, and the 24 kts top speed (using only 3 of the 30 advanced UKA turbines France can use in ship building) was dictated by the HP limitations.
The excessive secundary armament with the 140mm heavy shell guns was the result of the idea that a normal battlerange would give the heavy hail of 140mm shells an advantage against every ship smaller than a battleship.

The 3 Ktons weight difference is another matter. And would mean for 3 of the Pegasse, France can have 4 Griffon,and keep the turbines for more important ships. Like Lorraine or Valeur.

I'm open for suggestions.

[P3D]

Even French reciprocating engines must have an engine year 1900. Neglecting propulsion research for five years has some  heavy penalty.

France has to look for turbine licences somewhere ASAP. There are a lot of independent suppliers.

[maddox]

Begging for tech isn't the N-verse French way.
And propulsion technology wasn't neglected, just 1 avenue wasn't followed.
The French VTE's are advanced as any can wish for.

But now the admirality seems to have a man who can beat sence into the politicians, all that can change rapidly.

Also, France has a provider for Turbines as advanced on the planet as possible. The UK. Unfortunatly, the UK factories are going full pelt. So, after the 30 bought 12000(15000) HP units, France is looking to a very difficult option. Or hoard those units for the most important ships, or do what Premier Palpaté  promised not to do, reverse enginering.

France neglected her fleet for a few years, only a handfull of modern ships were aquired, and non build in France. Admiral Geon is pushing it. But for now parliament is keeping its greedy politicians hands on the money needed for the renewal and expansion of the Glorious French Fleet.

[maddox]

An improved Griffon design,  it becomes a slow but rather heavy hitting cruiser.
Griffon and Pegasus.

Griffon, French escort cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   7.762 t light; 8.236 t standard; 9.490 t normal; 10.493 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   437,99 ft / 433,07 ft x 68,90 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
   133,50 m / 132,00 m x 21,00 m  x 6,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns (4x2 guns), 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1901 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      20 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3.130 lbs / 1.420 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   229,66 ft / 70,00 m   10,20 ft / 3,11 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   203,38 ft / 61,99 m   10,20 ft / 3,11 m
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   196,85 ft / 60,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 82% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,00" / 203 mm   4,50" / 114 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm   2,50" / 64 mm      2,50" / 64 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 22.121 shp / 16.502 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.257 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   479 - 624

Cost:
   £0,744 million / $2,976 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 378 tons, 4,0%
   Armour: 3.004 tons, 31,7%
      - Belts: 1.403 tons, 14,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 773 tons, 8,1%
      - Armour Deck: 751 tons, 7,9%
      - Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1.106 tons, 11,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.175 tons, 33,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.728 tons, 18,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13.250 lbs / 6.010 Kg = 58,6 x 7,7 " / 195 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Stern:      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,67 ft / 4,78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,3%
   Waterplane Area: 20.286 Square feet or 1.885 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,66
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

10 tons marconi
20 tons torpedo reloads
20 tons crew comfort messures
50 tons undefined.

[maddox]

With a gentle touch of diplomacy, the Amble class cruisers will be changed in the last desing with 8 195mm guns.

[maddox]

The replacement ships for the Gloire class large protected cruisers.
These will be seen as the French answer on all the fast armored cruisers being build, and the compliment to the Ville Class Armored cruisers.

Gloire, France Protected Cruiser laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   9.859 t light; 10.454 t standard; 12.897 t normal; 14.851 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   544,62 ft / 544,62 ft x 65,62 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   166,00 m / 166,00 m x 20,00 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 634,55lbs / 287,83kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 83,72lbs / 37,98kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised guns
      12 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4.856 lbs / 2.203 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes, 2 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   6,89" / 175 mm      6,89" / 175 mm
   2nd:   2,95" / 75 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      0,98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.495 shp / 34.685 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.397 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   604 - 786

Cost:
   £1,180 million / $4,722 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 607 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 2.191 tons, 17,0%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 803 tons, 6,2%
      - Armour Deck: 1.272 tons, 9,9%
      - Conning Tower: 117 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 2.325 tons, 18,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.636 tons, 35,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.038 tons, 23,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12.337 lbs / 5.596 Kg = 19,4 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (40%):   23,79 ft / 7,25 m
      - Mid (40%):      13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Stern:      13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,01 ft / 5,49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,0%
   Waterplane Area: 24.940 Square feet or 2.317 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 593 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,43
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100tons Misc weight is:-

50tons Full WT setup
25tons 6 torpedoes and 10 reloads
25tons Flag Facilities

[Desertfox]

Nice ship, no belt armor, I like!

[maddox]

Brought cruising speed and range a bit down to the same numbers as the battle line.

Added belt, end and upper armor.At least this ship has now protection against peashooters.

Gloire, France Protected Cruiser laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   10.975 t light; 11.571 t standard; 12.897 t normal; 13.958 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   544,62 ft / 544,62 ft x 65,62 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   166,00 m / 166,00 m x 20,00 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 634,55lbs / 287,83kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 83,72lbs / 37,97kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised guns
      12 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4.856 lbs / 2.203 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes, 2 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   245,08 ft / 74,70 m   9,71 ft / 2,96 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   299,51 ft / 91,29 m   9,71 ft / 2,96 m
   Upper:   2,95" / 75 mm   245,08 ft / 74,70 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 69% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   6,89" / 175 mm      6,89" / 175 mm
   2nd:   2,95" / 75 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      0,98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.495 shp / 34.685 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.387 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   604 - 786

Cost:
   £1,219 million / $4,878 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 607 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 3.268 tons, 25,3%
      - Belts: 1.119 tons, 8,7%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 784 tons, 6,1%
      - Armour Deck: 1.272 tons, 9,9%
      - Conning Tower: 93 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 2.325 tons, 18,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.676 tons, 36,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.922 tons, 14,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12.109 lbs / 5.492 Kg = 19,1 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (40%):   23,79 ft / 7,25 m
      - Mid (40%):      13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Stern:      13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,01 ft / 5,49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forwardShip space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,0%
   Waterplane Area: 24.940 Square feet or 2.317 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 598 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,39
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

100tons Misc weight is:-

50tons Full WT setup
25tons 6 torpedoes and 10 reloads
25tons Flag Facilities

[Walter]

At least this ship has now protection against peashooters.

Maybe so, but you might want your main belt to cover a bit more than that 69% (as your "Hull below water" = 97,5%).

[maddox]

I still prefer the first version, without belt armor. The coalbunkers have that role.

I wanted an affordable, good gunned ship with some legs, to act a scout if needed, show the flag at the colonies (armor isn't as showy as a ship with a wake at 26 kts or carrying battleship sized guns) and a politicaly correct successor of the historical Large Protected cruisers France had.

The only fight Gloire had, the skirmish between Gran Colombian cruisers and Gloire has shown that having only 2 main guns isn't enough, so therefor the 6 gun BB alike layout.

But i'm tweaking it a bit.  I want more secundaries.  A lot more. It has to be showy, and what else to inspire fear into the enemy than a forrest of guns.

Maybe a bit carried away with this?

Gloire, France Protected Cruiser laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   10.425 t light; 11.150 t standard; 12.897 t normal; 14.294 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551,18 ft / 544,62 ft x 65,62 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   168,00 m / 166,00 m x 20,00 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 683,43lbs / 310,00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      26 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (22 mounts), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      10 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6.551 lbs / 2.971 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes, 2 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   6,89" / 175 mm      6,89" / 175 mm
   2nd:   2,95" / 75 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      0,98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,83" / 72 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.495 shp / 34.685 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.144 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   604 - 786

Cost:
   £1,323 million / $5,293 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 753 tons, 5,8%
   Armour: 2.321 tons, 18,0%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 920 tons, 7,1%
      - Armour Deck: 1.308 tons, 10,1%
      - Conning Tower: 93 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 2.325 tons, 18,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.926 tons, 38,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.472 tons, 19,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10.428 lbs / 4.730 Kg = 16,4 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,91
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (40%):   23,79 ft / 7,25 m
      - Mid (40%):      13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Stern:      13,94 ft / 4,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,01 ft / 5,49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,0%
   Waterplane Area: 24.940 Square feet or 2.317 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 630 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,45
      - Overall: 1,01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

100tons Misc weight is:-

50tons Full WT setup
25tons 6 torpedoes and 10 reloads
25tons Flag Facilities

[Carthaginian]

She'll definitely be 'showy' with all those 5.5"ers hanging out the side.
I like the idea of a 'large protected cruiser' for colonial work, it's leaps and bounds cheaper than a real battleship, and just as capable in the necessary roles. This looks like someone decided that the U.S.S. Olympia wasn't quite heavy enough, and tried to stretch the protected cruiser idea to the ultimate extreme.

[maddox]

If the CSA would have colonies....