Glorious French cruisers

[maddox]

A replacement for the aging Quebec class cruisers.

Obus G, French Tin Clad laid down 1912

Displacement:
   2.499 t light; 2.612 t standard; 3.112 t normal; 3.512 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   383,86 ft / 380,58 ft x 38,06 ft x 18,80 ft (normal load)
   117,00 m / 116,00 m x 11,60 m  x 5,73 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (3x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 600 lbs / 272 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,75" / 44 mm   280,00 ft / 85,34 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 113% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 0,75" / 19 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20.540 shp / 15.323 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 900 tons

Complement:
   207 - 270

Cost:
   £0,259 million / $1,037 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 68 tons, 2,2%
   Armour: 316 tons, 10,1%
      - Belts: 159 tons, 5,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 33 tons, 1,1%
      - Armour Deck: 124 tons, 4,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 819 tons, 26,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.176 tons, 37,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 613 tons, 19,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 3,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2.933 lbs / 1.330 Kg = 35,0 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 13,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Stern:      12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,38 ft / 4,08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76,7%
   Waterplane Area: 8.916 Square feet or 828 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 342 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[maddox]

My Attempt  for a Hawkins-alike cruiser.

Demarce IV, France protected cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   8.719 t light; 9.083 t standard; 10.632 t normal; 11.871 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   552,17 ft / 551,18 ft x 52,49 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   168,30 m / 168,00 m x 16,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns (4x2 guns), 264,55lbs / 120,00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      3 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2.162 lbs / 981 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   8 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   414,49 ft / 126,34 m   8,69 ft / 2,65 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 116% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,25" / 57 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 78.921 shp / 58.875 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.787 tons

Complement:
   523 - 680

Cost:
   £1,368 million / $5,471 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 232 tons, 2,2%
   Armour: 1.499 tons, 14,1%
      - Belts: 585 tons, 5,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 67 tons, 0,6%
      - Armour Deck: 795 tons, 7,5%
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.147 tons, 29,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.641 tons, 34,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.913 tons, 18,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8.296 lbs / 3.763 Kg = 36,7 x 7,7 " / 195 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,95
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,98 ft / 0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (17%):   18,67 ft / 5,69 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,64 ft / 5,68 m
      - Quarterdeck (8%):   18,64 ft / 5,68 m
      - Stern:      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,03 ft / 5,80 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107,3%
   Waterplane Area: 19.104 Square feet or 1.775 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 493 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,95
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Demarce IV, classed as a Protected Cruiser,  with a  heavy punch, long range at a reasonable speed, and a high -for France- top speed.

The 200 tons of misc weight are divided as following.
100 tons FC
50 tons ears
26 tons crew comfort
24 tons of torpedo spares (1 in the tubes and 2 reloads)

[maddox]

Lacking the scouting capacity needed for the large open waters of the Indian ocean and the Pacific ocean, some genius did propose this.

Demarce IV SC, France protected scout cruiser laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   8.471 t light; 8.751 t standard; 10.632 t normal; 12.136 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554,46 ft / 551,18 ft x 52,49 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   169,00 m / 168,00 m x 16,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      4 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns (2x2 guns), 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      3 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 948 lbs / 430 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   8 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   414,49 ft / 126,34 m   9,80 ft / 2,99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 116% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,25" / 57 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 78.921 shp / 58.875 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 11.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.386 tons

Complement:
   523 - 680

Cost:
   £1,369 million / $5,476 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 119 tons, 1,1%
   Armour: 1.540 tons, 14,5%
      - Belts: 659 tons, 6,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 34 tons, 0,3%
      - Armour Deck: 795 tons, 7,5%
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 3.147 tons, 29,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.286 tons, 30,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.161 tons, 20,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 380 tons, 3,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9.354 lbs / 4.243 Kg = 41,3 x 7,7 " / 195 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 14,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (17%):   18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (8%):   18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Stern:      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,79 ft / 5,73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,1%
   Waterplane Area: 19.104 Square feet or 1.775 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 448 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,81
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Demarce IV SC, scouting variant for use in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific.

A straightforward conversion of the Demarce IV class. By removing the aft mounts of the 195's room was created for a hangar and crane. Some of the weight  was used for more range, but the mayority went to the construction of the aircraft facilities.

The 3 waterplanes will be bougth with one of the Nassau treaty members.



The 380 tons of misc weight are divided as following.
100 tons FC
50 tons ears
26 tons crew comfort
24 tons of torpedo spares (1 in the tubes and 2 reloads)
180 tons of aircraft infrastructure. 3 Waterplanes carried.

[maddox]

With the first Demarce III's in good use, and new technologies becoming available.

Demarce III b, France protected cruiser laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5.817 t light; 6.060 t standard; 7.209 t normal; 8.127 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   529,20 ft / 528,22 ft x 49,21 ft x 19,19 ft (normal load)
   161,30 m / 161,00 m x 15,00 m  x 5,85 m

Armament:
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1.117 lbs / 507 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 160
   8 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   359,19 ft / 109,48 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 105% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48.264 shp / 36.005 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 6.250nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.067 tons

Complement:
   390 - 508

Cost:
   £0,948 million / $3,791 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 126 tons, 1,8%
   Armour: 954 tons, 13,2%
      - Belts: 443 tons, 6,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 68 tons, 0,9%
      - Armour Deck: 403 tons, 5,6%
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 1.924 tons, 26,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.562 tons, 35,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.392 tons, 19,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 3,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.851 lbs / 3.561 Kg = 93,8 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 13,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,98 ft / 0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (12%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m (17,22 ft / 5,25 m before break)
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,45 ft / 5,32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,3%
   Waterplane Area: 17.410 Square feet or 1.617 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 416 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,44
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The 1916 repeat of the Demarce III hull, but with more lighter guns as main armament.

100 tons FC
25 tons ERADe
50 tons torpedos.  1 in the tubes, 2 reloads and 2 tons reloading equipment.
25 tons marconi.
50 tons crew comfort.

Modified to remove the 2 70mm AA guns and replace them with 4 37mm guns in single mounts, as well  to remove the the wet forward warning.

[maddox]

The refit of the Demarce II's.

Demarce II Refit 1916 , France protected cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   5.045 t light; 5.242 t standard; 6.484 t normal; 7.477 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   493,77 ft / 492,13 ft x 49,21 ft x 18,37 ft (normal load)
   150,50 m / 150,00 m x 15,00 m  x 5,60 m

Armament:
      4 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 143,30lbs / 65,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 646 lbs / 293 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   6 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3,00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35.312 shp / 26.343 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 6.700nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.235 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   360 - 469

Cost:
   £0,483 million / $1,930 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 1.008 tons, 15,5%
      - Belts: 492 tons, 7,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 41 tons, 0,6%
      - Armour Deck: 452 tons, 7,0%
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 1.723 tons, 26,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.063 tons, 31,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.439 tons, 22,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 175 tons, 2,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6.259 lbs / 2.839 Kg = 45,7 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 12,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,55 ft / 4,74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,2%
   Waterplane Area: 16.285 Square feet or 1.513 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 380 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,23
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

25 tons long range marconi
25 tons ERADe
100 tons  Cruiser FC
12 tons torpedo's  in the tubes and 1 spare set+1 ton reloading equipment.
12 tons crew comfort.
6 Build.
Demarce II 
Arielle
Bernadice
Clarie
Dannielle
Evaine
Francine

The changed weight is due to the diminished range by less coal on board.
Cost is 0.078 BP and $0.078 per ship= .312 bp and $.312

to compare

[maddox]

Demarce IV Batch II, French Light cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8.691 t light; 9.060 t standard; 10.849 t normal; 12.279 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   552,17 ft / 551,18 ft x 52,49 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   168,30 m / 168,00 m x 16,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns (4x2 guns), 264,55lbs / 120,00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2.170 lbs / 984 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   8 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   413,39 ft / 126,00 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,25" / 57 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80.230 shp / 59.852 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.219 tons

Complement:
   530 - 690

Cost:
   £1,836 million / $7,345 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 233 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 1.600 tons, 14,7%
      - Belts: 671 tons, 6,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 73 tons, 0,7%
      - Armour Deck: 802 tons, 7,4%
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 2.989 tons, 27,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.649 tons, 33,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.158 tons, 19,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9.431 lbs / 4.278 Kg = 41,7 x 7,7 " / 195 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 14,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,95
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,98 ft / 0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (17%):   18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Quarterdeck (8%):   18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Stern:      18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,12 ft / 5,83 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104,3%
   Waterplane Area: 19.278 Square feet or 1.791 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 490 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,94
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The 220 tons of misc weight are divided as following.
100 tons FC
25 tons Enhanced Radio Aural Detection equipment
25 tons Long range Marconi
25 ton large crane midships- oa torpedo reloading.
25 ton crew comfort
16 tons Torpedo's
4 ton damage control extras.

[maddox]

Adviced by a foreign auditing bureau.

Toute Faire, French Armored cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   18.918 t light; 19.994 t standard; 22.400 t normal; 24.324 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 718,50 ft x 72,18 ft (Bulges 82,02 ft) x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 219,00 m x 22,00 m (Bulges 25,00 m)  x 8,00 m

Armament:
     9 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (3x3 guns), 705,48lbs / 320,00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7.360 lbs / 3.339 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   546,06 ft / 166,44 m   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,00" / 51 mm   546,06 ft / 166,44 m   23,04 ft / 7,02 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,00" / 178 mm   5,00" / 127 mm      7,00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 101.724 shp / 75.886 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.330 tons

Complement:
   915 - 1.190

Cost:
   £4,410 million / $17,641 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 840 tons, 3,8%
   Armour: 5.409 tons, 24,1%
      - Belts: 2.000 tons, 8,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 931 tons, 4,2%
      - Armament: 1.055 tons, 4,7%
      - Armour Deck: 1.287 tons, 5,7%
      - Conning Tower: 137 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 3.557 tons, 15,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.711 tons, 38,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.482 tons, 15,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26.539 lbs / 12.038 Kg = 41,8 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 17,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (9%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Stern:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,47 ft / 6,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142,5%
   Waterplane Area: 34.771 Square feet or 3.230 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 755 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 ton FC
25 ton ERADe
25 ton Long Range Marconi
50 ton crew comfort
50 ton not assigned

[Sachmle]

Not too bad, if not a little large. If France has say a 25cm gun I'd go with it instead and ditch the TDS and put the savings all into cutting weight.

[Tanthalas]

its not a bad ship, I think its a tad on the heavy side personaly though.  Trying knocking it down to 8 guns instead of 9 (a Twin SF over a tripple proly)  Truth told its up almost as big as a full on BC, with light guns.  Ill have a go at it later see what I can come up with.

[maddox]

A reasonable sized heavy cruiser, with reasonable armor, reasonable armament at a reasonable speed....

Siphonaptera, French Heavy cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   13.816 t light; 14.730 t standard; 17.133 t normal; 19.055 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 55,77 ft (Bulges 72,18 ft) x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   170,00 m / 169,00 m x 17,00 m (Bulges 22,00 m)  x 7,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (3 mounts), 705,48lbs / 320,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83,72lbs / 37,98kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (1x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6.672 lbs / 3.027 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,00" / 229 mm   343,77 ft / 104,78 m   11,75 ft / 3,58 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 95% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,00" / 229 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      9,00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 67.681 shp / 50.490 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.325 tons

Complement:
   748 - 973

Cost:
   £3,488 million / $13,953 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 761 tons, 4,4%
   Armour: 3.948 tons, 23,0%
      - Belts: 1.533 tons, 8,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 1.422 tons, 8,3%
      - Armour Deck: 878 tons, 5,1%
      - Conning Tower: 115 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 2.522 tons, 14,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.235 tons, 36,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.317 tons, 19,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19.092 lbs / 8.660 Kg = 30,1 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 19,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,92
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,652
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,68 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,74 ft / 8,15 m
      - Forecastle (22%):   20,51 ft / 6,25 m
      - Mid (50%):      20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (16%):   20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Stern:      20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,95 ft / 6,39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,2%
   Waterplane Area: 23.743 Square feet or 2.206 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,74
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
25 ton Long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
50 ton crew comfort

[Sachmle]

Perhaps beamier to increase stability at the expense of seakeeping? I don't know what it would cost weight wise.

[P3D]

Reasonably sized but 27kts is slow.

[Jefgte]

Increase to 29kts cost 1T2x275.

NUS is studying similar projects.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I am not a fan of the beam inside the bulges.
With a T3/T2  T3 arrangement of 275mm it needs to be wider.
Vainamoinian with 2xT2 254mm was 16.9m, while Graf Spee with T3 280 was 21.6m.
Even the T2/T3  T3/T2 US 8" cruiser Pensacola, was beamier.

I'd say the larger designs with the 29-30kt speed is more reasonable. French OPFOR include the ESC with a 26kt battleline, and the various Dutch Frigates.

[Jefgte]

...while Graf Spee with T3 280 was 21.6m...

... & 20.69m for the Panzerschiff Deutschland.

http://www.deutschland-class.dk/technicallayout/generaldetails.html.

IMO, 20.5m is the minimum for T3x275.

---------------------

In your SS, Recoil is too high - (0.92)
Increase beam to have a stronger hull.

Jef