Glorious French cruisers

[maddox]

Back from the tweaking.

But speed is 26 kts, still with the range, but at the cost of .5" deck armor .5" belt, what also is lowered and shorted (still more than enough length tough).

Demarce, France protected cruiser laid down 1909 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
   4.676 t light; 4.883 t standard; 5.855 t normal; 6.632 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   473,00 ft / 472,00 ft x 50,00 ft x 19,00 ft (normal load)
   144,17 m / 143,87 m x 15,24 m  x 5,79 m

Armament:
      4 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 143,30lbs / 65,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 39,68lbs / 18,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 974 lbs / 442 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   390,00 ft / 118,87 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 127% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3,00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28.593 shp / 21.330 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 7.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.750 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   334 - 435

Cost:
   £0,442 million / $1,766 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 114 tons, 2,0%
   Armour: 1.060 tons, 18,1%
      - Belts: 564 tons, 9,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 55 tons, 0,9%
      - Armour Deck: 420 tons, 7,2%
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 1.300 tons, 22,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.102 tons, 35,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.179 tons, 20,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.681 lbs / 3.484 Kg = 56,0 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,30
   Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 12,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,59

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,457
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,73 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,00 ft / 7,32 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,18 ft / 5,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142,1%
   Waterplane Area: 15.141 Square feet or 1.407 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 397 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,75
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Now build 12.
Borys

[maddox]

that sounds if they are or very good, or unusable... depends what the intention of the Habsburgers is

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I would had built them minimally different. Working within your fleet context:
1 - the 6,5" guns would be side by side (Habsburg aesthetic feature, does not change anything)
2 - 150-180 Main Battery shells, 200 is the upper limit
3 - I am not sure if I would mount 4x6,5", more likely 2x6,5"
4 - I would minimally change the trim to increase stability, cutting back on fireplatform and seaworthiness to 70/1,50

I think these are very good ships.

Borys

[maddox]

The hull itself lends itself to a lot of fun I have to admit. So I tweaked to gain the Habsburg Cruiser.

DeBorys, Valkenvanian protected cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   4.857 t light; 5.043 t standard; 5.938 t normal; 6.655 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   474,95 ft / 470,00 ft x 50,00 ft x 19,00 ft (normal load)
   144,76 m / 143,26 m x 15,24 m  x 5,79 m

Armament:
      2 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 143,30lbs / 65,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      2 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 590 lbs / 268 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3,00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33.655 shp / 25.107 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.612 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   337 - 439

Cost:
   £0,466 million / $1,865 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 72 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 1.126 tons, 19,0%
      - Belts: 644 tons, 10,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0,7%
      - Armour Deck: 421 tons, 7,1%
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0,4%
   Machinery: 1.683 tons, 28,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.926 tons, 32,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.081 tons, 18,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.058 lbs / 3.202 Kg = 51,5 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39
   Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 11,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,466
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2,00 ft / 0,61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,00 ft / 7,32 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Mid (50%):      15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Stern:      15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,53 ft / 5,04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134,7%
   Waterplane Area: 15.186 Square feet or 1.411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 371 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,55
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
C'est Magnifique!
By adding a forecastle (and one raised 165mm mount) you'd get 1,5 seaboat. Nice to have, of course. But is it necessary? This boat can patrol pretty much anywhere without fears of sinking.
I really like this cruiser.
Borys

[maddox]

Design VII, French  Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   5.000 t light; 5.297 t standard; 6.334 t normal; 7.163 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   396,52 ft / 393,70 ft x 55,77 ft x 19,19 ft (normal load)
   120,86 m / 120,00 m x 17,00 m  x 5,85 m

Armament:
      6 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns (3x2 guns), 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83,72lbs / 37,98kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      3 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83,72lbs / 37,98kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      10 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns (8 mounts), 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1.848 lbs / 838 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   3,00" / 76 mm      5,00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   3,00" / 76 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   3,00" / 76 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   4th:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 29.546 shp / 22.041 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.865 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
   354 - 461

Cost:
   £0,572 million / $2,287 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 231 tons, 3,6%
   Armour: 1.039 tons, 16,4%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 346 tons, 5,5%
      - Armour Deck: 693 tons, 10,9%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1.448 tons, 22,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.191 tons, 34,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.334 tons, 21,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 1,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5.322 lbs / 2.414 Kg = 38,8 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Stern:      15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,29 ft / 4,97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,2%
   Waterplane Area: 14.985 Square feet or 1.392 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 459 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,02
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[P3D]

Too thick armored deck. Ruleswise I don't like the 6.5" twin turrets. There's not much difference between the 140mm and 165mm guns, and the ship is definitely overgunned with 19 guns on deck and 8 guns in casemate. Not enough deck space on 120m.

[maddox]

Your advice is taken in account P³D

The roles for this cruiser.

Colonial flagship. Replacing the elder BB's used for that role in the past.
Raider.
Scout for the main battle line (the long range can be exchanged for faster cruising speed)
Main battle line screening vessel "Anti torpedo boat/torpedo boat destroyer"

Design VIII, French  Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   4.963 t light; 5.252 t standard; 6.683 t normal; 7.827 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   396,52 ft / 393,70 ft x 57,09 ft x 20,01 ft (normal load)
   120,86 m / 120,00 m x 17,40 m  x 6,10 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (3x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      3 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
   Weight of broadside 1.453 lbs / 659 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm   255,91 ft / 78,00 m   9,07 ft / 2,76 m
   Ends:   1,00" / 25 mm   137,78 ft / 42,00 m   9,07 ft / 2,76 m
   Upper:   1,00" / 25 mm   255,91 ft / 78,00 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   3,00" / 76 mm      4,00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   3,00" / 76 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -
   4th:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 30.559 shp / 22.797 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.576 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   369 - 480

Cost:
   £0,527 million / $2,109 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 166 tons, 2,5%
   Armour: 1.063 tons, 15,9%
      - Belts: 235 tons, 3,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 264 tons, 4,0%
      - Armour Deck: 564 tons, 8,4%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1.528 tons, 22,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.055 tons, 30,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.720 tons, 25,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.004 lbs / 3.177 Kg = 83,7 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 13,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Stern:      15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,29 ft / 4,97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,2%
   Waterplane Area: 15.252 Square feet or 1.417 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 423 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 1,98
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100 tons misc weight is set aside for a set of ears. 
16 tons torpedo - 2 loads for each tube
34 tons comfort increasing messures for the crew.

Another, but heavier gunned version

Design IX, French  Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   5.007 t light; 5.252 t standard; 6.683 t normal; 7.827 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   396,52 ft / 393,70 ft x 57,09 ft x 20,01 ft (normal load)
   120,86 m / 120,00 m x 17,40 m  x 6,10 m

Armament:
      3 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns in single mounts, 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      3 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1.209 lbs / 548 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   255,91 ft / 78,00 m   9,07 ft / 2,76 m
   Ends:   1,00" / 25 mm   137,78 ft / 42,00 m   9,07 ft / 2,76 m
   Upper:   1,00" / 25 mm   255,91 ft / 78,00 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   3,00" / 76 mm      4,00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm      1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 30.559 shp / 22.797 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.576 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   369 - 480

Cost:
   £0,516 million / $2,064 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 151 tons, 2,3%
   Armour: 1.084 tons, 16,2%
      - Belts: 335 tons, 5,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 185 tons, 2,8%
      - Armour Deck: 564 tons, 8,4%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1.528 tons, 22,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.093 tons, 31,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.676 tons, 25,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.089 lbs / 3.216 Kg = 31,3 x 7,7 " / 195 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 13,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Stern:      15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,29 ft / 4,97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,2%
   Waterplane Area: 15.252 Square feet or 1.417 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 431 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,01
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100 tons misc weight is set aside for a set of ears. 
16 tons torpedo - 2 loads for each tube
34 tons comfort increasing messures for the crew.

[P3D]

Twin 140mm is not allowed by the rules:
1900 Advanced(+1): ammunition hoists, deck torpedo armament, superfiring mounts
1910 Cutting Edge (+5): twin gun mounts
1920: turrets and barbettes

So the second design is better. However, 25kts might not be enough to screen against 29-30kts DDs, or when the battleline is operating at 20kts. For this design I'd cut range to 6-8000nm, increase speed to 27kts, and thin deck to 1.5". As it is already a small armored cruiser, I'd also have heavier belt and turret armor (4-6"), With only 9" belt the ship would have no armor above the waterline at full load, considering he extreme range - make it 12' deep.

Your ears might need as much as 5t-10 misc weight at most.

[maddox]

There is only so much to do on 5 ktons light.

Thicker and heavier belt will diminish armament. And France like to have guns in every nook and cranny.

The higher speed will wreak havok on the capabilities on the hull as is now.
Also, no Nverse III French ship is faster than 25 kts, except a few squadrons of historical TB's.


So, by common sence, the Demarce Class "light" protected cruiser design will be used.
This class of 20 ships will be layed down in groups of 5, with improvements included every batch.

The slightly increased tonnage will be used for a Combat Intelligence Centre, or flag bridge, making these ships the ideal ships for light task forces.

Demarce, France protected cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   5.009 t light; 5.240 t standard; 6.228 t normal; 7.019 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   471,16 ft / 469,16 ft x 50,85 ft x 19,36 ft (normal load)
   143,61 m / 143,00 m x 15,50 m  x 5,90 m

Armament:
      4 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 143,30lbs / 65,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 39,68lbs / 18,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 992 lbs / 450 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 175
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   340,00 ft / 103,63 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 2,00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30.013 shp / 22.390 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.779 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   349 - 455

Cost:
   £0,482 million / $1,929 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 115 tons, 1,9%
   Armour: 1.188 tons, 19,1%
      - Belts: 671 tons, 10,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 72 tons, 1,2%
      - Armour Deck: 430 tons, 6,9%
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0,2%
   Machinery: 1.501 tons, 24,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.135 tons, 34,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.219 tons, 19,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.416 lbs / 3.364 Kg = 54,1 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 12,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2,00 ft / 0,61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,00 ft / 7,32 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      15,75 ft / 4,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,16 ft / 5,23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,3%
   Waterplane Area: 15.504 Square feet or 1.440 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 399 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,68
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Very good.
Borys

[Ithekro]

Don't the French already have a twin 6.4" gun  turret at this point from some of their Armored Cruisers? (historically even)

[P3D]

We draw a line at 6.5" between light and medium guns to avoid WT light cruisers appearing too early.

[The Rock Doctor]

As an aside - what would have prompted the move from 6" deck mounts to turrets?  Heavier shells?  Faster loading equipment?  Inability to design double mount-and-hoist deck mounts?