Middle Kingdom Battleship

[Phoenix]

*** FIRST TRY ***

The very first time I used Springsharp and design a nifty battleshippy for me. Please don't kill yourself laughing, gather what remains of your august persons from the floor where it fell, and give me some constructive criticism...

QH Xingzi, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   10.685 t light; 11.561 t standard; 12.122 t normal; 12.571 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375,00 ft / 375,00 ft x 75,00 ft x 25,92 ft (normal load)
   114,30 m / 114,30 m x 22,86 m  x 7,90 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,99" / 330 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.096,51lbs / 497,37kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns in single mounts, 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7.206 lbs / 3.268 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   242,78 ft / 74,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   7,87" / 200 mm   127,95 ft / 39,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     4,27 ft / 1,30 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7,87" / 200 mm   242,78 ft / 74,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   7,87" / 200 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   1,18" / 30 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 12,60" / 320 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9.999 shp / 7.459 Kw = 16,87 kts
   Range 2.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.011 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   576 - 750

Cost:
   £1,201 million / $4,802 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 901 tons, 7,4%
   Armour: 4.882 tons, 40,3%
      - Belts: 2.286 tons, 18,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 1.275 tons, 10,5%
      - Armour Deck: 1.179 tons, 9,7%
      - Conning Tower: 143 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 500 tons, 4,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.303 tons, 35,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.437 tons, 11,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13.843 lbs / 6.279 Kg = 12,6 x 13,0 " / 330 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 15,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,29 ft / 6,49 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   13,55 ft / 4,13 m
      - Mid (50%):      13,55 ft / 4,13 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,55 ft / 4,13 m
      - Stern:      13,55 ft / 4,13 m
      - Average freeboard:   14,17 ft / 4,32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90,6%
   Waterplane Area: 20.226 Square feet or 1.879 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 738 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 2,75
      - Overall: 1,10
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Desertfox]

Not bad, kinda heavy deck armor and some left over strength but looks good otherwise. Course now I have to find a way to sink this sucker. But go ahead and build it, thats 40 Torpedo boats I wont have to face ;-D

[Walter]

You might want to raise the frrrrreeboard a little bit to get the Excellent Seaboat rating. Also you might want to close the little gap in the armor scheme ("4,27 ft / 1,30 m Unarmoured ends"). Perhaps a bit more range.

[maddox]

Build it?  I guess she wants to learn.

Her engineers are just studying the Russian designs.

[swamphen]

I'd suggest extending the armour belt a little bit, there's plenty of hull strength for that. Also, I'm not sure about the secondary battery layout, it looks like this:

X-X-X-X
X------X

when:

X------X
X-X-X-X

would be more logical.

Otherwise, not bad a'tall.  :)

[Carthaginian]

I'm not too experienced, but I'll try some creative criticism handed down to me by the mistakes of my nation's previous owner:

1.) 7.68" might be a bit too big for a secondary gun. Do you have anything between 6" and 7"... or preferably between 5" and 6"? These would be able to fire a lot faster, and be a lot less manpower-intensive.

2.) That's a lot of shells per main gun. Drop them to about 100 or less, that seems to be the historical max for a pre-dreadnought's magazines. Also, I'd try and 'even up' the shell weight... maybe an even 500kg? People like to measure things in nice, round numbers... or at least I do.

[P3D]

More speed (~20kts), longer range (4000@12kts or 5-6000@10kts), some secondary battery between 75 and 195mm, perhaps a bit reduced deck armor. Shells per main gun should be around 100.

[miketr]

My own thoughts...

I would push the displacement to 13 or 14kt on light load.

1a) With that increase range to 4,000 miles.  A coastal defense ship doesn't need huge range but I think you need more than you got.
1b) Increase secondary to something that has at least a full 8" gun better yet 9" to 10"
1c) Hold the speed to about the same
1d) Do you have the tech for a turreted secondary battery?  If so put the secondaries in turrets.  If not switch to lighter guns all together, 150 mm / 6".

Other than that nice first try.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Nothing really serioulsy wrong with it. It is a coastal battleship.
The armoured deck is too thick for the period - around two inches is better.
The End Belts are IMO needlessly thick - anything from 3 to 5 inches is better.
This can be transferred to Top Belt, to make it 10 inches thick.
Shells per main gun can be cut back to 100-110.

You could fool around with either the block coeficient (the sliding bar on first page), as at present she has the lines of a cruiser. If I may suggest something - make her longer - 118 metres if you want to fit her in Type 1 Slips, or 125-130 if that is not a consideration - and then DECREASE beam but INCREASE block coeficient.

At present she is a like a short woman with narrow shoulders, no bossom nor thighs, yet very broad hipped. I am suggesting to make her a little taller, and to put on more meat above and below the hips.

And yes, a range of 3500-4000 miles would be better. Speed is not that important, can stay at 17-18 knots.

Borys

[maddox]

It seems perfectly in the mindset of the MK navy.  
The only ships with a longer range are her colliers and the rebuild UK armored cruisers.

The top speed is also logical, 2 shafts, 5000 HP turbines- The MK got the turbine tech from the UKA.

The naval gun calibers used by the MK.

Machine guns: 25 mm
Guns: 50 mm, 75 mm, 105 mm
Cruisers: 140 mm
Coastal Battleships: 195 mm, 250 mm, 330 mm
River Monitors: 254 mm
Torpedoes: 14"  (old) 20 inch

[Phoenix]

Taking your recommendations I have revised it a bit... I know several things are a bit unorthodox, but that's just spice.

Xingzi, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   11.467 t light; 12.160 t standard; 13.518 t normal; 14.604 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375,00 ft / 375,00 ft x 75,00 ft x 25,92 ft (normal load)
   114,30 m / 114,30 m x 22,86 m  x 7,90 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,99" / 330 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.096,51lbs / 497,37kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns in single mounts, 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7.206 lbs / 3.268 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   242,78 ft / 74,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   7,87" / 200 mm   132,22 ft / 40,30 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   12,6" / 320 mm   242,78 ft / 74,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   12,6" / 320 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   1,18" / 30 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 12,60" / 320 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10.940 shp / 8.161 Kw = 16,87 kts
   Range 4.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.445 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   626 - 814

Cost:
   £1,235 million / $4,938 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 901 tons, 6,7%
   Armour: 5.621 tons, 41,6%
      - Belts: 2.652 tons, 19,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 1.562 tons, 11,6%
      - Armour Deck: 1.254 tons, 9,3%
      - Conning Tower: 154 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 547 tons, 4,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.148 tons, 30,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.051 tons, 15,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17.075 lbs / 7.745 Kg = 15,6 x 13,0 " / 330 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,95 ft / 6,69 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Stern:      14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Average freeboard:   14,83 ft / 4,52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,0%
   Waterplane Area: 21.526 Square feet or 2.000 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 673 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 2,53
      - Overall: 1,04
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons misc weight are torpedo reloads, a marconi installation and towing equipment.

[Carthaginian]

I like the addition of towing equipment... might be good for getting her older, less capable companions out of harms way after a battle.

[maddox]

You'll need or more shafts, or lower the speed a tiny bit.  With 3 or 4 shafts and a bit thinning of the armor (deck armor is a big gain) here and there you can gain enough weight to reach 18 kts.

[Phoenix]

Yay ! And immediately a much better boaty ! Oh, and I upgunned the 75 mms and increased the amount of 25 mms because I suddenly remembered there are still New Swiss pests out there...

Xingzi, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   11.433 t light; 12.160 t standard; 13.518 t normal; 14.604 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375,00 ft / 375,00 ft x 75,00 ft x 25,92 ft (normal load)
   114,30 m / 114,30 m x 22,86 m  x 7,90 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,99" / 330 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.096,51lbs / 497,37kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 7,68" / 195 mm guns in single mounts, 226,24lbs / 102,62kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      16 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      10 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 3,81lbs / 1,73kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7.706 lbs / 3.495 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   242,78 ft / 74,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   7,87" / 200 mm   132,22 ft / 40,30 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   11,8" / 300 mm   242,78 ft / 74,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   11,8" / 300 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   7,87" / 200 mm   1,18" / 30 mm            -
   4th:   1,18" / 30 mm   1,18" / 30 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14.905 shp / 11.119 Kw = 18,25 kts
   Range 4.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.445 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   626 - 814

Cost:
   £1,314 million / $5,254 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 963 tons, 7,1%
   Armour: 5.381 tons, 39,8%
      - Belts: 2.510 tons, 18,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 1.786 tons, 13,2%
      - Armour Deck: 941 tons, 7,0%
      - Conning Tower: 144 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 745 tons, 5,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.093 tons, 30,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.085 tons, 15,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.854 lbs / 6.738 Kg = 13,5 x 13,0 " / 330 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 16,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,95 ft / 6,69 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Stern:      14,21 ft / 4,33 m
      - Average freeboard:   14,83 ft / 4,52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,0%
   Waterplane Area: 21.526 Square feet or 2.000 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 664 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,47
      - Overall: 1,01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons misc weight are torpedo reloads, a marconi installation and towing equipment.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
You can adjust the trim a bit (slidebar on Performance page) to bring down Fireplatform and seakeeping (but keep them above 70% and 1,20) and to increase Stability to 1,10, maybe even 1,11.

Borys