Iberian Battleship

[miketr]

BB-1907, Iberia Battleship laid down 1907 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   17,304 t light; 17,699 t standard; 19,732 t normal; 21,359 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   152.40 m / 152.40 m x 25.91 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,758 lbs / 5,333 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   174.98 ft / 53.33 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 19.03 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,660 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   832 - 1,082

Cost:
   £2.074 million / $8.294 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,470 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 6,770 tons, 34.3 %
      - Belts: 2,965 tons, 15.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,412 tons, 12.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,205 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 189 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,667 tons, 8.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,393 tons, 37.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,428 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,040 lbs / 9,997 Kg = 25.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.60 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Stern:      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.37 ft / 4.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,557 Square feet or 3,025 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 827 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

********************************

I really think its too slow, I would really like a 20 or 21 knot design but thats just not in the cards.   Any suggestions?

[Carthaginian]

If possible, see if you can get the wing turrets a clear field of fire to allow for cross-deck firing.
That way, you could knock out two of them and still get a full 8 gun broadside. Consider looking at the British RN's ships for layout for the Neptune/Colossus classes for inspiration.
http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/battleship/hms-neptune.html

You'd save yourself a lot of weight that you could use to possibly get that last knot of speed.

[miketr]

If possible, see if you can get the wing turrets a clear field of fire to allow for cross-deck firing.
That way, you could knock out two of them and still get a full 8 gun broadside. Consider looking at the British RN's ships for layout for the Neptune/Colossus classes for inspiration.
http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/battleship/hms-neptune.html

You'd save yourself a lot of weight that you could use to possibly get that last knot of speed.

I am not a fan of Cross Decking, also I don't think the hull is long enough to do that type of setup.  The only reason I did it on my AC's was because there was just no other way.

As to the speed, its not a question of displacement but shaft horsepower.  I only have 20,000 shp to work with till I can get better turbines.

Thanks for the comments!

Michael

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Other candidates for inspiration are the the von der Tann, Espana, or Kaiser ....
But 10 guns better  than eight.

My comments:
- not enough miscalenous weight (no radio?)
- end belts too thick, top belt too thin
- very nice ship

As long as you built 3-6 such ships, then the speed is OK. It's the battleline that counts.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

I am not a fan of Cross Decking, also I don't think the hull is long enough to do that type of setup.  The only reason I did it on my AC's was because there was just no other way.

As to the speed, its not a question of displacement but shaft horsepower.  I only have 20,000 shp to work with till I can get better turbines.

Thanks for the comments!

Michael

Just wanted to point out an option with the cross-deck firing.
I'm a fan of anything that allows more for less. ;)

The engine HP problem I can relate to. My first 'all big gun' BB was limited to 19.5 knots due to that problem. I actually DECREASED it's top speed to 18.5 knots and gave it really heavy armor in order to allow it to work better in formation with my pre-dread designs. The captain would be a lot less tempted to run off on his own that way. ;)

[Ithekro]

Altering the hullform might get you the speed you desire.

[miketr]

Altering the hullform might get you the speed you desire.

I would have to push the hull form down to 0.5 to get 20 knots on 20,000 shp.  Needless to say this wrecks the hull strength; it drops to about 0.46.

What I need is 25,000 shp to get 20 knots.

Michael

[miketr]

BB-1907-a, Iberia Battleship laid down 1907 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   18,422 t light; 18,840 t standard; 20,893 t normal; 22,535 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   152.40 m / 152.40 m x 27.43 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,758 lbs / 5,333 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   174.98 ft / 53.33 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Upper:   12.0" / 305 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,278 shp / 18,857 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,250nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,695 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   868 - 1,129

Cost:
   £2.174 million / $8.697 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,470 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 7,563 tons, 36.2 %
      - Belts: 3,679 tons, 17.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,412 tons, 11.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,275 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 196 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,106 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,254 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,471 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 29 tons, 0.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,657 lbs / 9,823 Kg = 25.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.60 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Stern:      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.37 ft / 4.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,473 Square feet or 3,203 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 783 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 0.94
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


*****************************

OK I increased the beam, speed drops some more but upper belt has been doubled and 29 misc tons for 4 torpedos and 1 radio set.

Better / worse?

Edit: It helps if I post the right version...

Michael

[swamphen]

You could order turbines from Krupps... ;)

[miketr]

BB-1907-a, Iberia Battleship laid down 1907 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   18,599 t light; 19,017 t standard; 20,893 t normal; 22,393 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   152.40 m / 152.40 m x 27.43 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1907 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,758 lbs / 5,333 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   174.98 ft / 53.33 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Upper:   12.0" / 305 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 18.81 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,376 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   868 - 1,129

Cost:
   £2.119 million / $8.476 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,470 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 7,811 tons, 37.4 %
      - Belts: 3,679 tons, 17.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,660 tons, 12.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,275 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 196 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,667 tons, 8.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,623 tons, 36.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,294 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 29 tons, 0.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,066 lbs / 11,370 Kg = 29.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.60 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Stern:      15.65 ft / 4.77 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.37 ft / 4.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,473 Square feet or 3,203 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 823 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

**********************

Just can't win I posted the wrong version again....

Michael