Re: Carrier design discussion

[Jefgte]

Checking SS of the original CV3 class,
I note:

"- Armored deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm"

Which deck is Armored deck
Flight deck or hangar deck?

The lenght of the armored deck is 208,68m (94% of the lenght)

     "- Forecastle:    6,00 %,  22,97 ft / 7,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forward deck:    47,00 %,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Aft deck:    47,00 %,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Quarter deck:    0,00 %,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:        38,27 ft / 11,66 m"

April 05, 2024, 09:17:05 AM
Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 07:28:32 AM by Jefgte
Byzantine Empire Aircraft Carrier-60 aircrafts laid down 1932

Pusuldeniz - Kripodeniz,

Displacement:
    20 940 t light; 21 734 t standard; 23 583 t normal; 25 062 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (730,76 ft / 728,35 ft) x 91,86 ft x (24,67 / 25,83 ft)
    (222,74 m / 222,00 m) x 28,00 m  x (7,52 / 7,87 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7,52" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 120 per gun
      Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1932 Model
      8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
        8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 340 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
        8 raised mounts
      24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 4 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      12 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
        12 raised mounts
      24 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 10 000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
      12 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
        12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2 178 lbs / 988 kg

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    1,97" / 50 mm    684,65 ft / 208,68 m    11,52 ft / 3,51 m
    Ends:    1,97" / 50 mm      43,67 ft / 13,31 m    11,52 ft / 3,51 m
      Main Belt covers 145 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
        1,97" / 50 mm    684,65 ft / 208,68 m    21,72 ft / 6,62 m
    Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72,18 ft / 22,00 m

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    1,57" / 40 mm          -                  -
    2nd:    0,39" / 10 mm          -                  -
    3rd:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -
    4th:    0,24" / 6 mm          -                  -

 - Armoured deck - single deck:
    For and Aft decks: 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 105 820 shp / 78 942 Kw = 30,00 kts
    Range 10 000nm at 14,00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 3 328 tons

Complement:
    950 - 1 236

Cost:
    £5,814 million / $23,255 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 358 tons, 1,5 %
      - Guns: 358 tons, 1,5 %
    Armour: 3 378 tons, 14,3 %
      - Belts: 641 tons, 2,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 083 tons, 4,6 %
      - Armament: 37 tons, 0,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 617 tons, 6,9 %
    Machinery: 3 123 tons, 13,2 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 280 tons, 35,1 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 643 tons, 11,2 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 5 800 tons, 24,6 %
      - Hull below water: 250 tons
      - Hull above water: 2 820 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 2 670 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      61 780 lbs / 28 023 Kg = 290,6 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 9,6 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
    Metacentric height 5,6 ft / 1,7 m
    Roll period: 16,2 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,507
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7,93 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 26,99 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    6,00 %,  22,97 ft / 7,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forward deck:    47,00 %,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Aft deck:    47,00 %,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Quarter deck:    0,00 %,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:        38,27 ft / 11,66 m
    Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63,4 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 351,6 %
    Waterplane Area: 44 579 Square feet or 4 142 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 589 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,87
        - Longitudinal: 3,41
        - Overall: 1,00
    Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
    Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

misc weight:
AD
25t for LR Marconi
35t for 1924 fire control
OD
2400t for 30 aircrafts
120t for Climatisation
150t for Fire Fighting
HAW
2400t for 30 aircrafts
120t for Climatisation
150t for Fire Fighting
150t for aircrafts spare parts
HBW
100t for additionnal pumps
150t reserved for  material...

[Kaiser Kirk]

Checking SS of the original CV3 class,
I note:

"- Armored deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm"

Which deck is Armored deck
Flight deck or hangar deck?

The lenght of the armored deck is 208,68m (94% of the lenght)

A - Quoting from the aviation ship section :

3.  Determine minimum freeboard

Use the default "Length % of Lwl" setting.

So that ship is not legal as the foredeck is 6% and the quarterdeck is 0%.

B - The bow starts at 7m, and drops to 6m. The missing quarterdeck is 6m.

This may be extended to cover the forecastle OR the forecastle may be left 5m (15ft) lower and serve as a "flying off deck", increasing take off rate.

The forecastle needs to be 7m, not 7m & 6m

C -  the armored deck you've specified here would be a single layer at the top of the armored belt.

C -  Hanger decks were usually either directly below freeboard, or there was a gallery deck between them and freeboard.

This is an unarmored carrier, an so the upperworks are lightly built, with extra structure and "freeboard" up higher. Probably 15m and 18m above sea level.

D -  the armored deck you've specified here would be a single layer at the top of the armored belt.

E - the top of the of the armored belt is not specified. The deck levels are also not specified.

So if I was the one running a battle the ship was in, I would ask what the belt covered. If I did not get an answer, I would figure out the number of default decks (2.44m) and figured it covered from the first or second deck above WL downwards.

That happens to put it about 0.7m, or 3.14m. As 3.14m would only leave 0.3m against diving shells, I'd assume 0.7m and 2.44m, a full deck, vs. diving shells.

So that vessel would have a single 50mm deck at 0.70m above waterline.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Decided to split this off as it's discussing a specific design.

The Cleanup thread is meant for discussing how we do Armored Box Carriers overall.

[Jefgte]

I think in "design rules"

Pusuldeniz - Kripodeniz, Byzantine Empire Aircraft Carrier-60 aircrafts laid down 1932

Displacement:
   20 940 t light; 21 734 t standard; 23 583 t normal; 25 062 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (730,76 ft / 728,35 ft) x 91,86 ft x (24,67 / 25,83 ft)
   (222,74 m / 222,00 m) x 28,00 m  x (7,52 / 7,87 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7,52" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 340 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     12 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      24 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 10 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     12 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2 178 lbs / 988 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   473,43 ft / 144,30 m   11,52 ft / 3,51 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   254,89 ft / 77,69 m   11,52 ft / 3,51 m
   Upper:   1,97" / 50 mm   473,43 ft / 144,30 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,97" / 50 mm   473,43 ft / 144,30 m   21,72 ft / 6,62 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72,18 ft / 22,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 105 820 shp / 78 942 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 328 tons

Complement:
   950 - 1 236

Cost:
   £5,814 million / $23,256 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 362 tons, 1,5 %
      - Guns: 362 tons, 1,5 %
   Armour: 3 434 tons, 14,6 %
      - Belts: 979 tons, 4,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 749 tons, 3,2 %
      - Armament: 70 tons, 0,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 637 tons, 6,9 %
   Machinery: 3 123 tons, 13,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 116 tons, 34,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 643 tons, 11,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 905 tons, 25,0 %
      - Hull below water: 2 830 tons
      - Hull above water: 2 750 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 240 tons
      - Above deck: 85 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     56 708 lbs / 25 722 Kg = 266,7 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 7,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33
   Metacentric height 7,3 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 14,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,99 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00 %,  22,97 ft / 7,00 m,  22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forward deck:   37,50 %,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Aft deck:   27,50 %,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m,  39,37 ft / 12,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00 %,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      33,14 ft / 10,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 351,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 44 579 Square feet or 4 142 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,91
      - Longitudinal: 2,21
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

misc weight: 5905t
AD
25t for LR Marconi
35t for 1924 fire control
25t for Hulsmeyer
OD
20t for 2 cata
120t for Climatisation
100t for Fire Fighting
HAW
2400t for 30 aircrafts
120t for Climatisation
100t for Fire Fighting
30t for 3 x Fire Wall
50t for aircrafts spare parts
100t reserved for materials
HBW
2400t for 30 aircrafts
100t for Fire Fighting
30t for 3 x Fire Wall
50t for aircrafts spares parts
100t for additionnal pumps
150t reserved for  material...

[Kaiser Kirk]

That looks to fix it.
I may have missed something.
While it should not make a difference, the Foreward and Aft decks should have been left at the default %

That makes a quite decent flight deck carrier.