Merchant Marine rules

[maddox]

Exactly, note also that many passenger liners had far better engines than the warships built at the same time.

Not really, depends on what you are looking for in an engine. For a military one I want dependability, ease of repair, resistance to battledamage and redundancy.

For a commercial one, for a liner, I want a powerfull one, that is a PR advertisment in its own right. For a merchant I want a cheap one, that keeps on going and going without much maintenance and manpower requirements.

As Maddox says an AMC is built as a warship from the start, and if I wished to use these as AMC's I'd have to pay the 15-25% to fit the weapons, and also the upkeep.

On the old board, I payed in 1904  the refit of 2 A class liners and Magnificent and wartime upkeep for these vessels.  Operating troop ships isn't cheap in the end. Loosing revenue from the job they can't do anymore, and being converted into a small moneysinkhole.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'll echo what the other players appear to be agreeing on:  I view our budgets and infrastructure as government-owned/operated/spent, and as something that is entirely separate from the civilian-owned infrastructure and sources of capital found elsewhere in our nations.

Passenger liners such as UNK is building could provide a source of fast troop transports, I agree - but unless subject to a refit into service as an troopship, they'd be sub-optimal, and probably quite flammable.  I don't see it as a significant game-balance issue.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Hmm, at present I have my four troopships (construction paid for from military budget) running settlers to Parana. This thread reminded me that maybe I should pay something for them. As well as the charter on the s/s Chica Caliente, running settlers from Austria to Luzon.

Borys

[maddox]

Just upkeep should do fine.  It's when these ships run in wartime conditions...  Oh, the one to Luzon does....

[Borys]

OOC
YAY!
I split and merged topics! Go me!
Borys

[swamphen]

I agree that civilian ships constructed in civilian yards for civilian buyers should not be charged to the Game Budget. Also that a refit in a military yard (subject to said yards' length restrictions) is needed before they can be used to transport troops or cargo...

(Adding a requirement to consider civilian shipping, after cutting steel (BP) production vis-a-vis the old sim (HBP) by 3,000-4,000 tons per half, isn't the way to go.)

[swamphen]

(Actually, I thought we weren't using the merchant-marine rules anyway?)

[Desertfox]

Why do you think I have been complaining so much lately? Wesworld has worked because it is simplicity in itself. But here you cant design a ship without looking at 10 different things.

I certainly will not pay for my merchants.

[P3D]

The cost to convert a liner to troop transport is minimal. I will not  consider raising the cost to an arbitrary amount just to let it cost something.
And again, the stupid rule that "civilian ships cannot lay down a warship even if they are half the length of the liner just launched half two months ago" is something I want to avoid.

Swamphen: Cutting BP relative to the old sim: here you don't have to pay any BP for ship upkeep. At the end you should have more BP available.

To simplify thing then, what about the following:
- railroads cost only money
- ignore merchant fleets almost completely.
- Everyone can access a merchant fleet to transport the personnel of one corps. Equipment can travel in normal cargo ships. You want more, you build it. Austria did.
- There's no need for huge liner fleets. The emmigration from the old to the new world is  minimal in N-verse. Everyone has a few liners. The transatlantic passenger traffic is much less in volume than OTL, and rather business not immigration-oriented.

[Ithekro]

Being of sound mind I can say, "who cares?".  As a naval sim I don't particularly care about the armies and how they function, nor do the aspects of the merchents, trains,bor liners.  They are mostly fluff to me in this sim.  Less so than in Wesworld were I was finally forced to think about it once a war started. (scripted war)  I would think that most people designing liners in this age or even in the 1920s are doing so because they like liners and that they are a prestige item...to be th largest, the most luxurious, the fastest ships on the planet that aren't warships, and even then might still be faster.

For the armies in transit, well they get there somehow.  The enemy usually has a chance to stop the at least once.  For Rohan it resulted in one of the largest battles fought to date with the lose of just about every cruiser that was involved in the action, and the end for the Anahuac Pacific Fleet at a high cost to Rohan.

The sim needs to be played, that might cut out some realism but what is the price of too many rule in most gaming systems?  Usually it results in them not being played much by the most gamers. Rules designed to stop players from abusing the rules tend to generate more rules.  As one person I know says "I only want my fair advantage."  Well to be honest that is not how to play games and keep people from ganging up on you.  Play reasonable, play well, and don't push the patience of others, and this should remain a fun and enoyable experiance.

Can we get back to playing now?

[swamphen]

Swamphen: Cutting BP relative to the old sim: here you don't have to pay any BP for ship upkeep. At the end you should have more BP available.

True...

Can we get back to playing now?

Agreed...