Aztec Ships of the Mid Thirties, a Tale of Three Navies

The Rock Doctor · August 07, 2024, 08:04:35 PM

Think you copied the wrong sim in that last post.

TacCovert4 · August 07, 2024, 08:23:04 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 07, 2024, 08:04:35 PMThink you copied the wrong sim in that last post.

I did, Fixed now

TacCovert4 · August 08, 2024, 07:20:18 PM

Working on ideas for another fleet carrier.......also working on ideas for what the Sultanate is going to use as its fleet carrier concept. Armored Carriers are great, but they're also going to be more expensive with smaller air groups, and that's a decision I've got to figure out if I want to make or not.

Orion, Aztec Strike Carrier laid down 1934

Displacement:
   20,787 t light; 21,406 t standard; 23,230 t normal; 24,689 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (765.34 ft / 754.59 ft) x 85.30 ft x (22.97 / 24.10 ft)
   (233.28 m / 230.00 m) x 26.00 m x (7.00 / 7.35 m)

Armament:
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 451 lbs / 205 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   490.49 ft / 149.50 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   264.07 ft / 80.49 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.57" / 40 mm   490.49 ft / 149.50 m   21.10 ft / 6.43 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm        -
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 119,146 shp / 88,883 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,283 tons

Complement:
   940 - 1,223

Cost:
   £6.082 million / $24.326 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 103 tons, 0.4 %
     - Guns: 103 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 3,959 tons, 17.0 %
     - Belts: 595 tons, 2.6 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 603 tons, 2.6 %
     - Armament: 94 tons, 0.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,633 tons, 11.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 3,428 tons, 14.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,866 tons, 33.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,443 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,431 tons, 23.4 %
     - Hull below water: 2,570 tons
     - Hull above water: 2,570 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 120 tons
     - Above deck: 171 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,703 lbs / 21,184 Kg = 2,099.7 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.557
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 268.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,922 Square feet or 4,173 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 556 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

11t - Fire Control
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
100t - Flag Facilities

20t - 4 x Catapult on Flight Deck
100t - Firefighting Equipment

2470 - 52 Aircraft
100t - Firefighting Equipment

2470 - 52 Aircraft
100t - Pumps and DC Equipment

Typical Air Group consists of: 16 Dive Bomber, 12 Fighter, 24 Torpedo Bomber/Scout

TacCovert4 · August 11, 2024, 04:48:39 AM

One concern that has arisen is that of Flagships for Fleets and squadrons, with the advent of much faster formations which lack the sort of stoic battleline that typically matches with capital ship formations. An Admiral commanding from a carrier cannot rapidly displace his position, lest he interfere with flight operations or the carrier's role in an operation. An Admiral commanding from a Battleship might be able to displace, but in doing so he could remove a key heavy escort from a fleet, or any number of secondary roles that the battleship performs.

Thus the idea of a Frigate sized vessel, capable as an escort, but designed specifically with commanding a fleet in mind. A very heavy AA battery for self defense and defense of the capital ships it will almost always be in concert with. A very large suite of command and control facilities. A relatively large complement of scouting floatplanes. Improved armor scheme and DC over the Lake Class which makes it a bit more durable. And a reasonable main battery of 9 x 180mm guns for surface action.

Chapultepec-Class, Aztec Frigate laid down 1934

Displacement:
   11,982 t light; 12,555 t standard; 13,866 t normal; 14,914 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (647.23 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (19.91 / 21.09 ft)
   (197.27 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.07 / 6.43 m)

Armament:
9 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      1 raised mount
20 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
20 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     1 x 4 row quad mount on centreline forward
      1 double raised mount
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,231 lbs / 1,012 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   439.50 ft / 133.96 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   206.79 ft / 63.03 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.18" / 30 mm   439.50 ft / 133.96 m   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,128 shp / 59,775 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,360 tons

Complement:
   638 - 830

Cost:
   £4.688 million / $18.752 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 649 tons, 4.7 %
     - Guns: 649 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 3,672 tons, 26.5 %
     - Belts: 1,240 tons, 8.9 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 378 tons, 2.7 %
     - Armament: 502 tons, 3.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,474 tons, 10.6 %
     - Conning Towers: 78 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,305 tons, 16.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,681 tons, 33.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,884 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 675 tons, 4.9 %
     - Hull below water: 100 tons
     - Hull above water: 285 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
     - Above deck: 190 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,199 lbs / 10,069 Kg = 124.8 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.548
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 20.51 ft / 6.25 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.86 ft / 5.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 548 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sponson below weather deck aft
110t - 2 x Catapult and 4 x Armed floatplane Aft

25t - LR Wireless
75t - NF Devices x 3
65t - 1930 FC
10t - Additional SR Radio

50t - Flag Bridge
150t - Flag Quarters
100t - Combat Information Center

100t - Additional DC Equipment

TacCovert4 · August 12, 2024, 04:52:53 AM

With suggestions from Snip, a couple of variations. First, a variant with 8 x 180mm in Mount and Hoist. While she's less effective as a cruiser as compared to the Lake Class, she gains a knot of speed, which could be important in her role as a fleet flagship.

Chapultepec-Class, Aztec Frigate laid down 1934

Displacement:
   11,986 t light; 12,507 t standard; 13,814 t normal; 14,860 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (648.12 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (19.91 / 21.09 ft)
   (197.55 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.07 / 6.43 m)

Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
     2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,842 lbs / 836 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.33" / 110 mm   439.50 ft / 133.96 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   206.79 ft / 63.03 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.18" / 30 mm   439.50 ft / 133.96 m   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.33" / 110 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.33" / 110 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,858 shp / 71,510 Kw = 31.40 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,354 tons

Complement:
   636 - 828

Cost:
   £4.841 million / $19.364 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 429 tons, 3.1 %
     - Guns: 429 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 3,277 tons, 23.7 %
     - Belts: 1,146 tons, 8.3 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 378 tons, 2.7 %
     - Armament: 209 tons, 1.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,471 tons, 10.6 %
     - Conning Towers: 73 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,758 tons, 20.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,760 tons, 34.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,828 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 763 tons, 5.5 %
     - Hull below water: 100 tons
     - Hull above water: 318 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 165 tons
     - Above deck: 180 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,576 lbs / 9,333 Kg = 115.6 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.538 / 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.80 ft / 6.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,142 Square feet or 2,893 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 531 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.07
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sponson below weather deck aft
110t - 2 x Catapult and 4 x Armed floatplane
60t - Additional Power Assist for Main Mounts

25t - LR Wireless
75t - NF Devices x 3
43t - 1930 FC
10t - Additional SR Radio

50t - Flag Bridge
150t - Flag Quarters
100t - Combat Information Center

100t - Additional DC Equipment

TacCovert4 · August 12, 2024, 05:09:46 AM

And a third option. Gone are the 180mm guns in favor of a more self-defense only and escort oriented battery of 120mm guns, with 2 extra scouting/spotting aircraft and tonnage put into weatherproof shelters, as well as a larger flag bridge. Speed goes up to 32kts, and tonnage drops somewhat.

Chapultepec-Class, Aztec Frigate laid down 1934

Displacement:
   11,075 t light; 11,516 t standard; 12,761 t normal; 13,756 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (644.84 ft / 636.48 ft) x 67.26 ft x (19.69 / 20.90 ft)
   (196.55 m / 194.00 m) x 20.50 m x (6.00 / 6.37 m)

Armament:
10 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline forward
      1 double raised mount
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 634 lbs / 287 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.33" / 110 mm   432.81 ft / 131.92 m   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   203.64 ft / 62.07 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.18" / 30 mm   432.81 ft / 131.92 m   17.81 ft / 5.43 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 97,649 shp / 72,846 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,240 tons

Complement:
   599 - 780

Cost:
   £4.196 million / $16.784 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 186 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 186 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 3,107 tons, 24.3 %
     - Belts: 1,189 tons, 9.3 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 337 tons, 2.6 %
     - Armament: 126 tons, 1.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,385 tons, 10.9 %
     - Conning Towers: 69 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,809 tons, 22.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,225 tons, 33.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,685 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 749 tons, 5.9 %
     - Hull below water: 50 tons
     - Hull above water: 260 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 250 tons
     - Above deck: 189 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,302 lbs / 8,755 Kg = 366.1 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.538
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.46 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.23 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.80 ft / 6.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,322 Square feet or 2,724 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 480 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT Aft
160t - 2 x Catapult and 6 x Armed floatplane Amidships
50t - Weatherproof Storage Hangars

25t - LR Wireless
75t - NF Devices x 3
19t - 1930 FC
10t - Additional SR Radio
70t - Flag Bridge

150t - Flag Quarters
100t - Combat Information Center

50t - Additional DC Equipment

Jefgte · August 12, 2024, 09:04:57 AM

I prefer 11000t with 180mm guns.
10x120 for 11000t is not powerful enough.

The Rock Doctor · August 12, 2024, 11:24:17 AM

I agree with Jef.

TacCovert4 · August 13, 2024, 01:02:47 AM

A bit of a modification of it. A tithe of a knot faster, a thousand tons lighter, in exchange for a bit of a haircut on the armor scheme, bringing it from something armored as a frigate but not armed as one.....to an oversized corvette in armament and armor scheme:

Chapultepec-Class, Aztec Frigate-C laid down 1934

Displacement:
   10,796 t light; 11,285 t standard; 12,263 t normal; 13,046 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (605.47 ft / 597.11 ft) x 68.90 ft x (19.69 / 20.66 ft)
   (184.55 m / 182.00 m) x 21.00 m x (6.00 / 6.30 m)

Armament:
8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.39lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 200 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
     2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
16 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,842 lbs / 836 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.09" / 104 mm   406.04 ft / 123.76 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   191.04 ft / 58.23 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.18" / 30 mm   406.04 ft / 123.76 m   17.81 ft / 5.43 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,027 shp / 69,398 Kw = 31.50 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,760 tons

Complement:
   582 - 757

Cost:
   £4.580 million / $18.322 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 429 tons, 3.5 %
     - Guns: 429 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 2,740 tons, 22.3 %
     - Belts: 1,012 tons, 8.3 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 316 tons, 2.6 %
     - Armament: 206 tons, 1.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,142 tons, 9.3 %
     - Conning Towers: 63 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,676 tons, 21.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,288 tons, 35.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,467 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 663 tons, 5.4 %
     - Hull below water: 50 tons
     - Hull above water: 268 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 165 tons
     - Above deck: 180 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,820 lbs / 7,629 Kg = 94.5 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.537
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.80 ft / 6.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,179 Square feet or 2,618 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 526 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

40t - 2 x 5 x 21in HW TT on sponson below weather deck aft
110t - 2 x Catapult and 4 x Armed floatplane
60t - Additional Power Assist for Main Mounts

25t - LR Wireless
75t - NF Devices x 3
43t - 1930 FC
10t - Additional SR Radio

50t - Flag Bridge
100t - Flag Accommodations
100t - Combat Information Center

50t - Additional DC Equipment

TacCovert4 · August 13, 2024, 01:27:11 AM

To explain the logic behind doing this, I know that in WW2 the Japanese would quite often have the fleet commander onboard a cruiser, rather than the capital units. I hadn't really dug into the logic of it until I was listening to Drachinifel talk about Admiral Spruance, a black-shoe surface admiral commanding carriers. He chose the USS Indianapolis for his fleet flagship during the Tarawa operations, because the limited number of fast battleships were needed for shore bombardment duty and/or direct escort of the carriers. And while he could use a carrier, if he wanted to physically take the ship somewhere it would screw up flight ops. So he chose a heavy cruiser. The RAN is in a similar situation, with limited numbers of fast capital ships. The slow battleline has flagships, this ship is not for that. This class is for command of fast task forces, with a ship that has as much if not more command capability than the newest battleships in the fleet. It's role in combat would be as part of the fleet screen, but primarily as more of a close escort to the capital ships of the fleet rather than a fleet scout, so it's primary prey would be destroyers and cruisers, with aircraft being another thing it's got to be built to defend against.

TacCovert4 · August 13, 2024, 01:50:09 AM

And an alternative, a variation of the Condor-class 'through deck cruiser' that sacrifices some of the aviation in favor of command facilities. Definitely not as good of a cruiser than even the previous design, but also definitely spacious and can bring 10 full-up carrier aircraft into play rather than a clutch of floatplanes.

Condor-Class, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1934

Displacement:
   12,537 t light; 13,054 t standard; 14,391 t normal; 15,461 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (646.33 ft / 639.76 ft) x 70.54 ft x (20.67 / 21.87 ft)
   (197.00 m / 195.00 m) x 21.50 m x (6.30 / 6.67 m)

Armament:
6 - 7.09" / 180 mm 50.0 cal guns - 188.38lbs / 85.45kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
     2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 24.01lbs / 10.89kg shells, 265 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 2.11lbs / 0.96kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     2 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,549 lbs / 702 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   460.63 ft / 140.40 m   11.15 ft / 3.40 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.18" / 30 mm   460.63 ft / 140.40 m   18.83 ft / 5.74 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 54.13 ft / 16.50 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm     -         0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,331 shp / 69,625 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,407 tons

Complement:
   656 - 854

Cost:
   £4.720 million / $18.878 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 447 tons, 3.1 %
     - Guns: 447 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 2,728 tons, 19.0 %
     - Belts: 826 tons, 5.7 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 379 tons, 2.6 %
     - Armament: 291 tons, 2.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,182 tons, 8.2 %
     - Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,685 tons, 18.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,231 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,854 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,445 tons, 10.0 %
     - Hull below water: 500 tons
     - Hull above water: 700 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 40 tons
     - Above deck: 205 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,358 lbs / 11,956 Kg = 148.1 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.548
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.07 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Forward deck:   38.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Aft deck:   34.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      25.92 ft / 7.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 233.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,201 Square feet or 2,899 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 525 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

AD
25t - LR Wireless
75t - NF Devices x 3
45t - FC
10t - Additional SR Radio
50t - Flag Bridge

OD
10t - 2 x Catapult (On Sides of Deck)
30t - Additional Firefighting Equipment on the Flight Deck

AW
25t - Additional Firefighting Equipment in Hangar
475t - Aviation (Total Flight Group 10 Aircraft)
100t - Command Information Center
100t - Flag Accommodations

BW
25t - Additional DC Equipment and Pumps
475t - Aviation Support

TacCovert4 · August 13, 2024, 03:55:40 AM

And for something completely different, the second flight of the Tuna-class replenishment ship. Overall on the same tonnage, roughly, the ship carries 500t more fuel for the fleets it'll service, has spaces aboard for a limited hospital and passenger carrying capacity, and adds to the usual panoply of ship's boats a pair of 20t motor launches for transferring supplies or personnel. The original Tuna-class was a departure from the Sojourner and Whale classes in having a relatively powerful defensive armament of 4 open-mount 180mm guns. The second flight benefits from the advent of the Dual-Purpose gun, mounting 8 single 120mm/55 DP guns in four sponsons at the 'corners' of the ship, with four pairs of 40mm AA guns in open mounts on the main deck. For survivability, the torpedo defense system is deepened, and strengthened, with the retaining bulkhead rising above the waterline at full load to give more reserve buoyancy. (For rules purposes the TDS was stretched to the maximum allowed for guns/armor as the only armor on the ship).

Tuna Mk2, Aztec Replenishment Ship laid down 1934

Displacement:
   14,726 t light; 15,147 t standard; 16,374 t normal; 17,355 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (489.61 ft / 485.56 ft) x 72.18 ft x (20.44 / 21.55 ft)
   (149.23 m / 148.00 m) x 22.00 m x (6.23 / 6.57 m)

Armament:
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 55.0 cal guns - 56.91lbs / 25.81kg shells, 300 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 488 lbs / 222 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      0.59" / 15 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   22.15 ft / 6.75 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 47,060 shp / 35,107 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,208 tons

Complement:
   723 - 940

Cost:
   £3.602 million / $14.410 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 113 tons, 0.7 %
     - Guns: 113 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 191 tons, 1.2 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 191 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,354 tons, 8.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,624 tons, 22.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,648 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 9,445 tons, 57.7 %
     - Hull below water: 6,498 tons
     - Hull above water: 2,600 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 280 tons
     - Above deck: 67 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,199 lbs / 10,069 Kg = 421.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.800 / 0.804
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.81 ft / 5.43 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,824 Square feet or 2,864 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 435 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

17t - Fire Control
25t - LR Wireless
25t - NF Devices

50t - 2 x Cranes
50t - Refueling Hoses
50t - Firefighting Hoses
50t - 2 x Catapult & Unarmed Floatplane
80t - 2 x 20t Motor Launch

50t - Firefighting Pumps
50t - Refueling Pumps
500t - Workshops
1800t - Dry Goods Storage
100t - Accommodation for 50 x Passengers
100t - Hospital Space

6000t - Fuel Oil
398t - Diesel Engines
100t - Damage Control Pumps

Range is 16,100nm @ 14kt Cruising Speed w/Geared Diesels

The Rock Doctor · August 13, 2024, 10:45:39 AM

Quote from: TacCovert4 on August 13, 2024, 01:50:09 AMAnd an alternative, a variation of the Condor-class 'through deck cruiser' that sacrifices some of the aviation in favor of command facilities. Definitely not as good of a cruiser than even the previous design, but also definitely spacious and can bring 10 full-up carrier aircraft into play rather than a clutch of floatplanes.

Condor-Class, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1934

I kind of like the idea, but on the other hand, it means your flagship is off sailing into the wind whenever it's conducting air operations - which could be annoying if the rest of his force is trying to go somewhere else.

I feel like maybe the best approach is just a cruiser that can do normal cruiser duties if it isn't being used as a flagship.

TacCovert4 · August 13, 2024, 02:31:48 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 13, 2024, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: TacCovert4 on August 13, 2024, 01:50:09 AMAnd an alternative, a variation of the Condor-class 'through deck cruiser' that sacrifices some of the aviation in favor of command facilities. Definitely not as good of a cruiser than even the previous design, but also definitely spacious and can bring 10 full-up carrier aircraft into play rather than a clutch of floatplanes.

Condor-Class, Aztec Through-Deck Cruiser laid down 1934
I kind of like the idea, but on the other hand, it means your flagship is off sailing into the wind whenever it's conducting air operations - which could be annoying if the rest of his force is trying to go somewhere else.

I feel like maybe the best approach is just a cruiser that can do normal cruiser duties if it isn't being used as a flagship.

I agree, I wasn't completely satisfied with that one either. I'm thinking the one I posted before that is going to be as ideal as I can make this concept. It's a perfectly serviceable cruiser as is, if not quite as heavily armed or armored as other cruisers in its tonnage. The 90mm guns are definitely more on the AA side of dual purpose, and with the 40mm and 30mm guns it's got a pretty decent AA suite for escorting carriers or battleships, the 8 x 180 gives it a reasonable punch against cruisers, and if it needs to do air scouting it has the floatplane setup of a large capital ship so it can in theory maintain a floatplane scout over an enemy formation at all times.

Kaiser Kirk · August 18, 2024, 06:27:45 PM

I'm of mixed view on the command cruiser concept.
Generally I think it's a good idea, getting an Admiral more freedom to move about.
However, my consideration for it keep identifying the need for a ship that
can withstand a fair bit of damage, particularly torpedo and bomb hits as subs and planes can hit anywhere.. .and that pushes it up to the the light armored cruiser realm.

At which point the extra 100 tons for a flag bridge vs.12-15000 for a command cruiser seems
like less than a lovely deal. Not to mention ships in that range have real value elsewhere.

This then gets also into the consideration
of "shoot the funny stuff first", and once the Byzantines/Japanese know I'm using a specialty cruiser, it becomes a target.

Real benefits and opportunity costs.