Vilnius Union Ships, 1930+: The Good, The Bad, and the Unseaworthy

[The Rock Doctor]

Since the sim is still in 1929 as I post this, this is strictly conjectural.  However, I won't have DP guns in service until 1931, so that's the design date I'm working with and the reason I'm starting the thread now.

This is a circular gunboat designed for coastal, lacustrine and riverine service in shallow waters.

From a design perspective, my reading indicates basic cylinder has a block co-efficient of .785, so this hull's 0.70 assumes some degree of rounding around the edge.  Like a circular dinner plate.

I estimate the area of the boat should be 660m2, which is not far off the calculated waterplane area.  Not the same, but close enough for government.

The point is to put a fair bit of protection and a heavy armament on a shallow draft.  It may be possible to get this armament and protection on a conventional hull of the same displacement, I haven't checked.  I could probably dot the main deck with additional 15mm machine guns around the superstructure without really interfering with the 130mm firing arcs.

It is far too soon to say if I'll bother building this or something like it.  Obviously I'll go back and play with conventional hull forms to see what they allow.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1931

Displacement:
   998 t light; 1,127 t standard; 1,188 t normal; 1,236 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (95.14 ft / 95.14 ft) x 95.14 ft x (6.56 / 6.80 ft)
   (29.00 m / 29.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (2.00 / 2.07 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline amidships (forward deck)
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 423 lbs / 192 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm     61.84 ft / 18.85 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm     33.27 ft / 10.14 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm            -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Box over machinery & magazines: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 835 shp / 623 Kw = 10.07 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 109 tons

Complement:
   100 - 131

Cost:
   £0.342 million / $1.370 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 121 tons, 10.2 %
   Armour: 314 tons, 26.4 %
      - Belts: 148 tons, 12.5 %
      - Armament: 41 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 118 tons, 9.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 25 tons, 2.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 409 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 190 tons, 16.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 10.9 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - Hull above water: 30 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 65 tons

Fittings:
-15t:  D-E machinery (BW)
-30t:  Unallocated (AW)
-20t:  Command faciiities (gunboat squadron)(FD)
-13 t:  Fire control (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-5 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-22 t:  Weight reserve (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,876 lbs / 2,212 Kg = 72.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.89
   Metacentric height 12.9 ft / 3.9 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.43

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.703
   Length to Beam Ratio: 1.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 9.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 100
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.06 ft / 5.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 235.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,256 Square feet or 674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 294 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 18.56
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

A dedicated fast transport for hauling troops and/or cargo under hazardous circumstances. 

The speed isn't quite fast enough to outrun a destroyer or light cruiser, but it does allow for a night-time sprint that improves the odds of getting into a port unharmed.

The armament is entirely defensive, and about air defence and anti-torpedo-boat work.  I could probably swap in 2x2 130mm but expect it would be heavier than the 3x2 100mm.

The landing craft are there in case the cargo is to be deposited in a place without facilities, or undamaged facilities at any rate.  They could be left behind and another 40 t of cargo brought on.

I likely lack the resources to build any, but it amuses me. 

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1930

Displacement:
   2,983 t light; 3,110 t standard; 3,446 t normal; 3,716 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (442.03 ft / 426.51 ft) x 42.65 ft x (14.11 / 14.91 ft)
   (134.73 m / 130.00 m) x 13.00 m  x (4.30 / 4.54 m)

Armament:
      6 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      1 raised mount aft
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 double raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 202 lbs / 92 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm            -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm            -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38,874 shp / 29,000 Kw = 30.15 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 606 tons

Complement:
   224 - 292

Cost:
   £1.171 million / $4.682 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 41 tons, 1.2 %
   Armour: 22 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armament: 22 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,178 tons, 34.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 963 tons, 28.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 463 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 779 tons, 22.6 %
      - Hull below water: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 459 tons
      - Above deck: 20 tons

-150 t:  Bulk cargo or fuel oil (BW - might move this to above water, not sure)
-150 t:  Bulk cargo or ad-hoc troop accommodation (AW)
-120 t:  Davits and 2 x 20 t landing craft (FD)
-330 t:  Deck cargo (FD)
-5 t:  Fire control (AD)
-10 t:  Lights and night-fighting doodads (AD)
-9 t:  Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,325 lbs / 1,055 Kg = 76.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   32.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   33.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.30 ft / 4.97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,801 Square feet or 1,096 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 48 lbs/sq ft or 233 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.69
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 0.75
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

With a trio of medium-caliber dual-purpose guns coming into service for 1931, it doesn't make a lot of sense to implement any new classes that would benefit from those guns a year early.

An exception would be the 1930 Harbour Defence Boat, which is too small to carry such weapons, but which can and does carry a single brand new 50mm/60 AA gun.  Otherwise, the vessel is largely similar to the 1926 type except that lighter engines allow for a bit more carrying capacity.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1930

Displacement:
   54 t light; 57 t standard; 58 t normal; 59 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (84.29 ft / 78.74 ft) x 13.12 ft x (3.94 / 3.98 ft)
   (25.69 m / 24.00 m) x 4.00 m  x (1.20 / 1.21 m)

Armament:
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal gun - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 500 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1930 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline forward
      2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
      Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.79" / 20 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 402 shp / 300 Kw = 14.78 kts
   Range 300nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 tons

Complement:
   9 - 13

Cost:
   £0.017 million / $0.067 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 12 tons, 21.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18 tons, 30.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 tons, 6.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 34.4 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 7 tons
      - Above deck: 1 tons

Fittings:
-5 t:  Basic hydrophones (BW)
-7 t:  D-E engines (BW)
-7 t:  Combination of depth charges and/or marine constable squad (FD)
-1 t:  Spotlight (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     73 lbs / 33 Kg = 19.1 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 9.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.502
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 8.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.97 ft / 0.60 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  5.91 ft / 1.80 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  5.91 ft / 1.80 m,  5.91 ft / 1.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.91 ft / 1.80 m,  5.91 ft / 1.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.65 ft / 2.03 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 688 Square feet or 64 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 13 lbs/sq ft or 61 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.57
      - Longitudinal: 8.42
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

A relatively heavy icebreaker.

As with preceding classes, it has a minimal armament and a fairly extensive search-and-rescue capability.  There is no ASW capability because the Baltic is supposed to be a Union pond and also because scraping against ice isn't healthy for hydrophones.  Outside the Baltic you just shouldn't be trying to torpedo my icebreaker.

In winter, it would usually be a bit of overkill for typical Baltic conditions, but it would have the power to overcome atypical conditions from a cold winter and thicker-than-usual single-year ice.  The protective scheme notionally includes extensive underwater protection and heavier waterline belts than in preceding classes.  Stability is also high, facilitating movement of ballast water and tolerance of topside ice build-up.  Freeboard and seakeeping should be up to all but the worst sea conditions.

In summer, it'd be available to do research functions in the southern hemisphere, perhaps up to the Antarctic coast.  This explains the large fuel capacity and the relatively high-speed (allowing 15 kts at half power when cruising).  It also explains the presence of a plane, catapult, and hanger:  For a range of scouting, surveying and search/rescue functions.  In this scenario, the extra accommodation for search-and-rescue is available for scientific and extra support personnel, there's a fair bit of stores and cargo capacity, and there are some extra facilities to keep everybody safe, warm, and non-mutinous on extended sorties on the open ocean.

As with previous classes, the sim overstates the speed.  Two props totaling 5,000 kw provide a top speed of 18 knots; half-power allows cruising at 15 knots.  The third shaft is forward and provides 1,000 kw for breaking and clearing ice from the bow.

This is a couple of years in the future but if resources allow I might spring for two of them.

Heavy icebreaker, laid down 1931

Displacement:
   3,289 t light; 3,370 t standard; 3,645 t normal; 3,865 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (289.81 ft / 278.87 ft) x 55.77 ft x (16.40 / 17.15 ft)
   (88.33 m / 85.00 m) x 17.00 m  x (5.00 / 5.23 m)

Armament:
      1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose gun in deck mount, 1931 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      1 raised mount
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 22 lbs / 10 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   181.27 ft / 55.25 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm     97.57 ft / 29.74 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0.59" / 15 mm   181.27 ft / 55.25 m   14.44 ft / 4.40 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.98" / 25 mm   278.87 ft / 85.00 m   14.44 ft / 4.40 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 8,043 shp / 6,000 Kw = 18.87 kts
   Note:  ACTUAL speed 5,000 kw = 18.04 kts on 2 shafts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 495 tons

Complement:
   233 - 304

Cost:
   £0.656 million / $2.623 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 355 tons, 9.8 %
      - Belts: 147 tons, 4.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 57 tons, 1.6 %
      - Bulges: 147 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 241 tons, 6.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,256 tons, 34.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 356 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,432 tons, 39.3 %
      - Hull below water: 532 tons
      - Hull above water: 400 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 300 tons
      - Above deck: 200 tons

Fittings: 
-200 t:  Structural reinforcement and anti-flooding pumps (BW)
-100 t:  Water ballast and pumps to move it between tanks (BW)
-200 t:  Stores and supplies (BW/AW)
-132 t:  D-E machinery (BW)
-200 t:  Accommodation for 100 passengers (or more in emergencies) (AW)
-100 t:  Crew amenities and supplemental services (cinema, medical bay, etc.) (AW)
-150 t:  Towing rig (FD)
-30 t:  Unarmed scoutplane + extra parts/skis + catapult (FD)
-200 t:  Working space for crew and passengers (FD/AD)
-50 t:  Redundant L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  Spotlights and electric lighting (AD)
-25 t:  Huelsmeyer Device (AD)
-20 t + 15 t:  Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,949 lbs / 4,966 Kg = 850.6 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.54 ft / 8.70 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.08 ft / 6.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,363 Square feet or 963 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 160 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 362 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 5.12
      - Overall: 1.15
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[The Rock Doctor]

Not posting any sims yet but I did some playing around with armored box carriers last night.  Set some fixed parameters - armament, speed, armor, and the minimum one-hanger freeboard of 12m, and then simmed out different airgroup sizes:

-36 A/C:  25,903 t light

-48 A/C:  27,330 t light

-60 A/C:  28,915 t light

Much of that was accomplished by increasing draft and BC rather than length and beam, so the armored deck area/weight doesn't increase at the same time.

My takeaway:  The cost of the armored box is essentially fixed.  Once you pay for it, the cost of further scaling up to add more aircraft is incremental and pretty reasonable - really no worse than an unboxed carrier.  You've just got a higher base cost and the as-yet unknown problem of shock damage to the rigid structure.

Edit:  Was intrigued to learn that Taiho had an armored deck, but not a box.  The hanger sides were not armored at all.  So that's a potential weight savings if one is concerned primarily with bombs and not so much about gunfire.

[The Rock Doctor]

A Tone-style light cruiser with extensive aviation facilities aft for six floatplanes.  Two cranes and two catapults on the hanger roof support these operations.  The far end of the quarterdeck allows access to the hanger.  The hanger itself probably holds no more than five airframes, and in peacetime the ship would likely only embark four.

Because of the role, and the tight design constraints (getting everything on less than 9,000 t was a pain), I've omitted torpedoes and command facilities.  This thing exists to operate planes and shoot guns.

Given the existence of the Koziorozoc class fast seaplane carriers - with six planes on half the displacement - I am not sure there's an argument for the cruiser although I do like the look of it.  It is, however, somewhat unconventional for a navy that likes two mounts forward and one or two mounts aft.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1931

Displacement:
   8,992 t light; 9,447 t standard; 10,448 t normal; 11,249 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (605.26 ft / 590.55 ft) x 59.06 ft x (22.31 / 23.55 ft)
   (184.48 m / 180.00 m) x 18.00 m  x (6.80 / 7.18 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,170 lbs / 531 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   383.86 ft / 117.00 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm            -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 1.97" / 50 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 85,791 shp / 64,000 Kw = 32.02 kts
   Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,802 tons

Complement:
   516 - 671

Cost:
   £3.411 million / $13.646 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 338 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 2,193 tons, 21.0 %
      - Belts: 1,013 tons, 9.7 %
      - Armament: 311 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 828 tons, 7.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,566 tons, 24.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,589 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,456 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 307 tons, 2.9 %
      - On freeboard deck: 177 tons
      - Above deck: 130 tons

Fittings:
-160 t:  6 armed floatplanes and 2 catapults (FD)
-34 t:  1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  Extra S/R wireless (AD)
-25 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-17 + 36 t:  Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,874 lbs / 6,293 Kg = 134.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.479
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Aft deck:   10.00 %,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   40.00 %,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.92 ft / 5.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,624 Square feet or 2,102 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 496 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

A hypothetical monitor to test out a hypothetical 500mm gun with a hypothetical 2,000 kg projectile.  So, like, ASROC or something.

Otherwise heavily armed and protected against air/surface attack, though not belted for a major surface gunnery duel.  The odds of landing a hit on a ship would not be gun with a single barrel, but if it did, yikes. 

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   12,033 t light; 12,694 t standard; 13,222 t normal; 13,644 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (401.63 ft / 393.70 ft) x 91.86 ft x (19.69 / 20.22 ft)
   (122.42 m / 120.00 m) x 28.00 m  x (6.00 / 6.16 m)

Armament:
      1 - 19.69" / 500 mm 45.0 cal gun - 4,409.25lbs / 2,000.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mount, 1932 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      6 raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,001 lbs / 2,268 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   137.76 ft / 41.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   18.90 ft / 5.76 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.7" / 450 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      15.7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 3.94" / 100 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 8,043 shp / 6,000 Kw = 15.47 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 951 tons

Complement:
   616 - 801

Cost:
   £3.947 million / $15.787 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 858 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 4,706 tons, 35.6 %
      - Belts: 1,291 tons, 9.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 352 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 1,002 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,989 tons, 15.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 237 tons, 1.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,582 tons, 42.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,188 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 650 tons, 4.9 %
      - Hull below water: 131 tons
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 119 tons
      - Above deck: 300 tons

Fittings:
-131 t:  D-E machinery (BW)
-86 t:  Fire control (AD)
-The usual L/R wireless, nightfighting, command facilities AD
-Not sure where the rest of the weight goes.

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,368 lbs / 16,496 Kg = 9.5 x 19.7 " / 500 mm shells or 10.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.61

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  22.64 ft / 6.90 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.98 ft / 4.87 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 48.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,706 Square feet or 2,574 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.70
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[TacCovert4]

Rocky, just go ahead and build HMS Incomparable.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'm getting to it, I'm getting to it.

[Jefgte]

Excellent for supporting a landing or land bombardment.

;)

[The Rock Doctor]

An Incomparable, since we're talking about it.

Misc. weight includes a lot set aside for fire control, some minimal command/comms/nightfighting stuff.  Probably more on the freeboard deck than I really need.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   49,872 t light; 52,787 t standard; 55,669 t normal; 57,976 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (864.06 ft / 846.46 ft) x 114.83 ft x (30.84 / 31.92 ft)
   (263.37 m / 258.00 m) x 35.00 m  x (9.40 / 9.73 m)

Armament:
      6 - 19.69" / 500 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4,409.25lbs / 2,000.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      18 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 raised mount
      24 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 27,775 lbs / 12,598 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   550.20 ft / 167.70 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   550.20 ft / 167.70 m   29.59 ft / 9.02 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.7" / 450 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      15.7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 5.51" / 140 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm  Quarter deck: 5.51" / 140 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14.96" / 380 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,858 shp / 120,000 Kw = 29.02 kts
   Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,189 tons

Complement:
   1,811 - 2,355

Cost:
   £21.291 million / $85.165 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4,516 tons, 8.1 %
   Armour: 18,996 tons, 34.1 %
      - Belts: 5,800 tons, 10.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,186 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 4,080 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 7,460 tons, 13.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 470 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,748 tons, 8.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,727 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,797 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 885 tons, 1.6 %
      - On freeboard deck: 285 tons
      - Above deck: 600 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     80,972 lbs / 36,728 Kg = 21.2 x 19.7 " / 500 mm shells or 12.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 7.7 ft / 2.3 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  32.15 ft / 9.80 m,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.18 ft / 6.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 74,459 Square feet or 6,918 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 230 lbs/sq ft or 1,123 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.07
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[TacCovert4]

Looks quite effective

[The Rock Doctor]

Not a word I expect to see used in relation to that sim.

I suspect if I proceed with this, I'm going to do some playing with hull dimensions to see if something longer but of similar displacement is more effective.  Probably not - the weight of the deck armor would probably offset any machinery savings.

[TacCovert4]

Keep in mind that I'm already building a 46000t battleship and planning to build a 58000t battleship

[The Rock Doctor]

When the current slate of Union construction activity is completed (~H1/32), it'll have:

-8 modern and modern-ish battleships (4 Angstroms, 2 Enckes, 2 Gadolins) and 4 obsolete (2 Nieugietys, 2 Wrogis)

-4 modern-ish battlecruisers (2 Szermierz, 2 Czarownik)

-6 modern (4 Rajtars, 2 Strazniks) and 2 obsolete (2 Lucznik) armored cruisers.

By some metrics, that's a balanced 12/12 ratio of battleships to what I call armored cruisers.  But I'm not sure if it's the proper ratio now when I've got fairly extensive trade routes in the Atlantic.  There's a part of me thinking I should have more armored cruisers - the smaller stuff with 25cm or 30cm guns, not the battlecruisers. 

A 10 BB : 4 BC : 10 AC ratio puts more emphasis on the cruiser role.  Achieving this in the mid-30s likely means replacing the four old battleships with two new ones, and then another 4 ACs, with the final two replacing the Lucznik class.

Or I could aim for 8 : 6 : 8 with a pair of new battlecruisers that are probably north of 40,000 tons but can run fast enough to catch cruisers and are heavy enough to slug with battleships.  Plus I'm probably still needing to replace the Luczniks on a 1:1 ratio anyway.

I'm not keen on traditional heavy cruisers as we know them - the 8", 10-12,000 t ships.  Never thought they made sense in a treaty-less ecosystem.  So that's not really an answer for me to make up numbers.

So I dunno.  What do you think?