Vilnius Union Ships, 1930+: The Good, The Bad, and the Unseaworthy

[The Rock Doctor]

Speaking of korsarz, another look at a new class.  This one's built with less emphasis on launching MTB attacks and a bit more emphasis on a fast transport/rapid strike capability.  This means fewer davits and more raw cargo capacity.  In theory, the following missions could be performed:

-MTB strike:  4 x 20t MTB in davits and another two stored on the aft deck, with about 32 boat-loads of wet/dry stores aboard.

-MTB tender:  As above, but additional MTBs in company as well as those carried aboard.

-Naval infantry strike:  120 marines and 30 boat/vehicle crew, with up to 4 to 6 landing craft or gun tubs and possibly some light vehicles on the aft deck

-Fast transport:  Up to 600 personnel for 24 hrs plus additional deck cargo in lieu of landing craft, on top of existing stores capacity and possibly some off-loading of bunkerage.

I considered a fast minelaying capability but figured that would require actual refits to switch roles, whereas the above is a matter of what is in the davits and what stuff is on the deck.

A full 32 knots would be nice, and I may sim the effects of a transom and see if it's worth waiting a year.



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1933

Displacement:
    4,485 t light; 4,683 t standard; 5,371 t normal; 5,921 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (509.28 ft / 495.41 ft) x 49.21 ft x (15.42 / 16.61 ft)
    (155.23 m / 151.00 m) x 15.00 m  x (4.70 / 5.06 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1933 Model
      2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.19lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
      2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts
      2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
        2 raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
      4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
        4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 305 lbs / 138 kg

Armour:
  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    1.97" / 50 mm    0.79" / 20 mm        1.97" / 50 mm
    2nd:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -
    3rd:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,960 shp / 41,000 Kw = 31.07 kts
    Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 1,238 tons

Complement:
    313 - 407

Cost:
    £1.937 million / $7.749 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 71 tons, 1.3 %
      - Guns: 71 tons, 1.3 %
    Armour: 20 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 20 tons, 0.4 %
    Machinery: 1,601 tons, 29.8 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,741 tons, 32.4 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 885 tons, 16.5 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 1,052 tons, 19.6 %
      - Hull below water: 300 tons
      - Hull above water: 300 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 352 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Fittings:
-200 t:  Wet stores (fuel oil or diesel) (BW)
-100 t:  Dry stores (ammunition, supplies) (BW)
-300 t:  Accommodation for 150 (long term) or 600 (surge) personnel (AW)
-160 t:  Four sets of heavy davits (20 t light craft + cargo) (FD)
-192 t:  Combination of deck cargo and up to 6 x 20 t MTB, landing craft, or gun-tubs (FD)
-25 t:  LR wireless (AD)
-25 t:  Huelsmeyer device/early radar (AD)
-25 t:  Operations centre for marines/whoever (AD)
-10 t:  Night-fighting doodads (AD)
-8 t:  Fire control (AD)
-7 t:  Weight reserve (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      4,719 lbs / 2,140 Kg = 70.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
    Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
    Roll period: 14.2 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.512
    Length to Beam Ratio: 10.07 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 22.26 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:    40.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:    20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:    20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:        16.93 ft / 5.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.3 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.6 %
    Waterplane Area: 16,244 Square feet or 1,509 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 331 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.87
        - Longitudinal: 1.21
        - Overall: 0.90
    Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
    Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

Okay a small transom and 1934 engine year gives me 31.6 knots and another ten tonnes or so of deck cargo.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Light Transport - I have a very similar vessel. I wound up devoting only part of the available wt to Fleet support, while allocating the rest to a variety of things.  That's a fair amount of tonnage, you may want to pencil out what it supports, and also look at your Destroyers and subs and see if the result is a whole number.

Koraz- I think Foxy would salivate at such a tip and run commando vessel.

[The Rock Doctor]

He was around when I built the first batch.  Adding the amphibious capability was actually his idea.  Think he just didn't have the resources for any of his own.

[The Rock Doctor]

Playing around with cruiser-of-the-line ideas for the mid thirties.  This is basically a super-Czarownik, with newer 400mm guns, DP armament, and heavier deck armor.  The transom stern is assumed to be available at this point, we'll see how it actually shakes out.

Obviously other options include a heavier version with 450mm/45 guns and a lighter version with the new 350/45 I'm working on.

It'll all depend on what use I actually see for battlecruisers at that point.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1935

Displacement:
   44,973 t light; 47,369 t standard; 50,853 t normal; 53,641 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (887.15 ft / 869.42 ft) x 101.05 ft x (31.17 / 32.58 ft)
   (270.40 m / 265.00 m) x 30.80 m  x (9.50 / 9.93 m)

Armament:
      8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,425.09lbs / 1,100.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 20,551 lbs / 9,322 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   565.12 ft / 172.25 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.36" / 60 mm   565.12 ft / 172.25 m   29.92 ft / 9.12 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 5.91" / 150 mm
   Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm  Quarter deck: 5.91" / 150 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 158,178 shp / 118,000 Kw = 30.06 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,272 tons

Complement:
   1,693 - 2,201

Cost:
   £20.489 million / $81.957 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,326 tons, 6.5 %
      - Guns: 3,326 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 17,812 tons, 35.0 %
      - Belts: 5,083 tons, 10.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,478 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 3,488 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 7,380 tons, 14.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 384 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,494 tons, 8.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,262 tons, 35.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,880 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,080 tons, 2.1 %
      - Hull below water: 130 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
      - Above deck: 550 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     80,173 lbs / 36,366 Kg = 41.1 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 12.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.96
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.656
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 31.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  32.48 ft / 9.90 m,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m
      - Forward deck:   36.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m
      - Aft deck:   29.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.63 ft / 7.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 69,050 Square feet or 6,415 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 202 lbs/sq ft or 988 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[Jefgte]

Parthia & Byzantium should think about building big 45,000t machines.

[The Rock Doctor]

Can't quite settle on the secondary/tertiary armament for the 1933 armored cruser.

The class is 98% identical to the 1929 Rajtar class, so 21,000 t, 8x250mm, 32 knots.  The Rajtars had 12x130mm QF and 6x1 100mm AA.  As with the Rajtars, they're envisioned as high-seas cruiser-killers, but may also find themselves screening carriers in due course.  Environments would range from nice, sunny Caribbean waters to foggy, stormy North Seas.

Engine weights will decrease enough that I can get a bit more firepower in, either:

1)  Go to 8x2 130mm DP, with 50mm AA back up. 
2)  Stick with 6x2 130mm QF or DP, with 5x2 or 6x2 100mm AA as well. 

I have limited historical practice to fall back on for this size and date of ship.  The smaller Deutschlands had a mixed battery, the larger Dunkerques went with a (crappy) DP battery. My own 1931 battleship class has retained a mixed battery.

My inclination at this point is that the navy's starting to get a sense that the 130mm DP is maybe a bit too heavy for AA use, so will hedge its bets and go with a mixed battery.  That probably means I start developing a lighter DP gun in the 115-125mm range in 1933...though I suppose I could have that type in service in time to refit to the 1933 cruiser.

[Jefgte]

130 DP has too low rate of fire in AA use. The lower calibers are much better (114 for Byzantium).
130 DP is excellent against light units: CL, DD, TB, MTB.
I think 4T2x130DP + 24x50 AA is correct for 1933.
=> Provide weight reserve to increase the number by 50 in a few years.

[The Rock Doctor]

A large light cruiser, but not in the sense you're expecting.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1933

Displacement:
   21,009 t light; 21,980 t standard; 23,712 t normal; 25,098 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (803.91 ft / 787.40 ft) x 78.74 ft x (26.25 / 27.41 ft)
   (245.03 m / 240.00 m) x 24.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.35 m)

Armament:
      36 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 3-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.19lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,485 lbs / 2,034 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   275.56 ft / 83.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   23.33 ft / 7.11 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59.06 ft / 18.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 129,702 shp / 96,758 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,119 tons

Complement:
   955 - 1,242

Cost:
   £8.065 million / $32.261 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,354 tons, 5.7 %
      - Guns: 1,354 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 7,292 tons, 30.8 %
      - Belts: 2,386 tons, 10.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 870 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 1,636 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,296 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 105 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,779 tons, 15.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,884 tons, 33.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,703 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 700 tons, 3.0 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 250 tons
      - Above deck: 350 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,751 lbs / 16,670 Kg = 356.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.517
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.82 ft / 9.70 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      23.36 ft / 7.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 41,689 Square feet or 3,873 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 656 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

For:
Excellent fire power to protecting large ships from torpedo boats attack.
Against:
All eggs in one basket. I prefer 3 x 7000t cruisers.

[The Rock Doctor]

A follow-up to the 1926 howitzer-armed river gunboat, but with two of the much heavier new 250mm/35 pieces.

The guns are fitted side-by-side forward, with a limited traverse on their mountings (~20 degrees to either side) so the ship is basically shooting end-on at all times.  On the other hand, the targets would be static shore targets, so this shouldn't be too much of a hassle.

Limited defensive armament and armor is supplied, and speed and range reflect a role that is decidedly coastal.

Draft is shallow, so riverine operations would be feasible in some places, so long as the river is wide enough for the ship to be facing its target.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1933

Displacement:
   996 t light; 1,090 t standard; 1,144 t normal; 1,186 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (254.05 ft / 246.06 ft) x 49.21 ft x (5.09 / 5.25 ft)
   (77.43 m / 75.00 m) x 15.00 m  x (1.55 / 1.60 m)

Armament:
      2 - 9.84" / 250 mm 35.0 cal guns - 447.02lbs / 202.77kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose gun in deck mount, 1933 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 942 lbs / 427 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   155.68 ft / 47.45 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,078 shp / 1,550 Kw = 15.10 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 96 tons

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0.372 million / $1.489 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 110 tons, 9.6 %
      - Guns: 110 tons, 9.6 %
   Armour: 250 tons, 21.8 %
      - Belts: 84 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armament: 14 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 150 tons, 13.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 61 tons, 5.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 451 tons, 39.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 148 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 124 tons, 10.8 %
      - Hull below water: 34 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 30 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Fittings:
-34 t:  diesel-electric drive (BW)
-30 t:  Weight reserve (FD)
-11 t:  Fire control (AD)
-25 t:  Cage mast (AD)
-10 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-10 t:  Extra short-ranged wireless (AD)
-4 t:  Also weight reserve (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,567 lbs / 1,618 Kg = 7.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.26 ft / 3.74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 215.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,277 Square feet or 862 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 224 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.67
      - Longitudinal: 1.88
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

11 FC, 10 NF, 25 Cage, 10 extra WR

[Kaiser Kirk]

hmm, looks like I failed at posting yesterday.
how annoying.

I'll summarize :
*45,000 tons & 30 knots - I can't meet my design goals at that speed on that tonnage. I have some ~55,000 ton designs that manage that.

*21,000tons & 150mm - thought provoking.  Excellent for soft kill of a vessel. Enough barrels to ensure consistent hits at low probabilities. Smallish burst radius on the 150mm and limited splinter potential.
Potentially devastating at short ranges, night and in bad weather, but very limited in other aspects.
Unless aerial spotting or FC radar assured, very weak at long normal combat ranges against vessels of similar displacement. These longer ranges also tend to be associated with lower ROF to allow for impact/adjust/fire cycles.
The imbalanced armor is an interesting choice, which seems designed to stop armored cruiser shells at 21-26km,
not a horrid design, but it may proove difficult to close at an useful rate to where the 150mm will shine without taking serious hits.

*130mm as too slow. - I think the RN 114 was a very nice weapon, and have fielded my copy of it as the 115L47.
That does not - in my opinion- mean the 130mm class was too slow.  The RN 5.25 is 133mm and the gun that comes to mind, but the mk I mounting had numerous flaws including being cramped, which slowed it down. The MkII was supposed to be satisfactory.  The USN 5"/38 is 127mm, and had similar rates of fire to the 114mm, while being a wildly successful design. I think the 'too slow' aspect of the 5.25" is partly true as it pushed the upper limit of easy shell loading, but also because of a bad design. I do not agree that's a reason to dismiss 130mm as 'too slow', Like most choices, it will be better for some purposes and worse for others.

*250mm -  I would think a forward casement might be a better way of expressing this.
It would come with a limited arc to start with- check
it would come with an ammo hoist..and you really don't want to hand over hand shells of that size.
A deck mount implies something you really don't need structural reinforcement for, and a pair of 250mm might be
a little hard on the deck steel. A casement is set to transfer loads to the scantlings, and so has the limited mounting locations and arcs, but the structural aspects are implied.

ok, now lets see if I can manage to hit post twice.

[The Rock Doctor]

The large light cruiser is part joke, part thought exercise, and almost certainly never to be built.

Interesting thoughts on the 250 howitzer.  I have time in 2/32 to add a casemate to the mount options.

[The Rock Doctor]

The basic refit for the Czarownik class cruisers of the line is similar to the Szermierz refit, except that Czarownik had a greater weight reserve and so a mixed secondary/tertiary battery is retained here.  It just happens that the tertiary 100mm battery is much heavier than before.

Otherwise, there's a plane and cat on the stern, new FC, new huelsmeyer device, and the nightfighting doodads got moved to above-deck.

Costs are $0.57 and 0.479 BP.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1919

Displacement:
    38,788 t light; 40,864 t standard; 43,681 t normal; 45,934 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (818.81 ft / 803.81 ft) x 95.14 ft (Bulges 101.71 ft) x (31.17 / 32.58 ft)
    (249.57 m / 245.00 m) x 29.00 m (Bulges 31.00 m)  x (9.50 / 9.93 m)

Armament:
      8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1919 Model
      4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
      Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1919 Model
      8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
      8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
        8 raised mounts
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
      6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
      Machine guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
      8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
        8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 17,516 lbs / 7,945 kg

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    13.0" / 330 mm    522.47 ft / 159.25 m    16.11 ft / 4.91 m
    Ends:    Unarmoured
      Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
      Main Belt inclined 12.00 degrees (positive = in)

  - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
        1.97" / 50 mm    522.47 ft / 159.25 m    29.40 ft / 8.96 m
    Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.02 ft / 25.00 m

  - Hull Bulges:
        0.59" / 15 mm    522.47 ft / 159.25 m    29.40 ft / 8.96 m

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    15.7" / 400 mm    7.87" / 200 mm        13.0" / 330 mm
    2nd:    1.97" / 50 mm    0.98" / 25 mm        3.94" / 100 mm
    3rd:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -
    4th:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -
    5th:    0.59" / 15 mm          -                  -

  - Armoured deck - single deck:
    For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
    Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

  - Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 4 shafts, 155,495 shp / 116,000 Kw = 30.02 kts
    Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 5,071 tons

Complement:
    1,509 - 1,963

Cost:
    £8.142 million / $32.568 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 2,897 tons, 6.6 %
      - Guns: 2,897 tons, 6.6 %
    Armour: 13,918 tons, 31.9 %
      - Belts: 4,592 tons, 10.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,119 tons, 2.6 %
      - Bulges: 336 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armament: 3,508 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,016 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 347 tons, 0.8 %
    Machinery: 5,522 tons, 12.6 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,851 tons, 36.3 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,893 tons, 11.2 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 110 tons
      - Above deck: 490 tons

Fittings:
-290 t:  1930 Fire control (AD)
-100 t:  Flag facilities (AD)
-50 t:  Redundant L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t:  Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-25 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-30 t:  Armed scoutplane and catapult at stern (FD)
-80 t:  Weight reserve (FD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      57,025 lbs / 25,866 Kg = 29.2 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
    Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
    Roll period: 18.3 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 28.35 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    20.00 %,  31.50 ft / 9.60 m,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forward deck:    36.00 %,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Aft deck:    29.00 %,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Quarter deck:    15.00 %,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Average freeboard:        24.86 ft / 7.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.1 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.4 %
    Waterplane Area: 55,934 Square feet or 5,196 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 982 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.97
        - Longitudinal: 1.23
        - Overall: 1.00
    Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room

8000@15 knots
4000@20 knots
2200@25 knots
1300@30 knots

[The Rock Doctor]

Refit for the M-class torpedo-boats.  Give up a bit of gun armor and miscellaneous weight, add sonar and a bit of additional AA.  Swap out FC and ASW ordnance for new hardware.

Cost per unit is $0.05 and 0.034 BP



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   1,004 t light; 1,057 t standard; 1,202 t normal; 1,318 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (313.96 ft / 310.20 ft) x 29.53 ft x (11.48 / 12.20 ft)
   (95.70 m / 94.55 m) x 9.00 m  x (3.50 / 3.72 m)

Armament:
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 132 lbs / 60 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 24,129 shp / 18,000 Kw = 30.67 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 261 tons

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0.235 million / $0.938 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 25 tons, 2.1 %
      - Guns: 25 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 622 tons, 51.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 279 tons, 23.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 198 tons, 16.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 5.8 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 37 tons
      - Above deck: 8 tons

Fittings:
-15 t:  Enhanced hydriophone package (BW)
-10 t:  Sonar (BW)
-24 t:  2x3 heavyweight 530mm torpedo carriages, no reloards (AW)
-10 t:  ASW ordnance (AW)
-3 t:  Weight reserve (AW)
-5 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-3 t:  Fire control (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     296 lbs / 134 Kg = 9.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.07 ft / 3.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,638 Square feet or 524 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 132 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform