Vilnius Union Ships, 1930+: The Good, The Bad, and the Unseaworthy

Kaiser Kirk · May 02, 2024, 10:47:51 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on May 02, 2024, 07:14:45 PM-I bite the bullet and refurbish in order to replace the secondary 130mm battery with DP guns.

Perhaps I have been making a presumption.
But I have been Basic Refitting Anti-surface to DP mounts so long
as I am only effecting the above-decks structure- in, I believe, accordance with the Basic Refit description.

That vessel already has 130mm Deck & Hoist.
The new gun does not have a larger shell size or weight.
So the existing hoists should work with the updated gun.

So you're only replacing above deck structures.
Which falls under basic refit.

Now, you will need new Fire Control for the new DP aspect, but that is a basic refit as well.

Another way of looking at it :
We as a group have decided that only Fire Control as a system do we need to pay
to update, otherwise all tech chart upgrades to equipment, and refreshed gun mounts happen as part of 'maintenance'.

So a new or refreshed anti-surface 130 QF gun + mount & hoist would not require any expenditure, even if the tech improvement meant a higher ROF and require a better hoist.

So the hoist update to move shells the same or less diameter and equal or less weight should be part of that 'maintenance'. But this would not apply to a larger or heavier shell.

My Opinion :
Again, perhaps I am off base, but this would involve removing above deck fittings and replacing them with above deck fittings. There might be welding involved in addition to bolting/unbolting, but conceptually the same. Further since you're keeping shell weight the same, I don't see the problem with replacing the ship's 130mm SP with 130mm DP under our Basic Refit rules.

Jefgte · May 03, 2024, 12:39:30 AM

QuoteFurther since you're keeping shell weight the same, I don't see the problem with replacing the ship's 130mm SP with 130mm DP under our Basic Refit rules.

I agree.

The Rock Doctor · May 03, 2024, 07:54:58 PM

The N-class torpedo-boats were built specifically to act as tenders to fleet flagships. They had additional visual and radio signaling capabilities to allow them to aid in battleline coordination, and basic command facilities in case an admiral needed to get picked up and transferred to another ship without losing control of the larger formation.

Though reasonable for their time, the class is almost fifteen years old. They are just barely faster than some of the Union's cruisers of the line and their operating range comparatively modest. A notional replacement is being mooted, on a much larger hull.

The focus remains on supporting (and occasionally being) a fleet flagship, and one supposes the new type could double as an admiralty yacht or emergency VIP transport as well. The hull is fast, dry, steady, and a good seaboat. The armament is keyed towards defensive, close-in fire so more, lighter guns compared to general-purpose torpedo-boats like the A-class. Besides, if she's sailing within spitting distance of a capital ship 95% of the time, odds are the bad guys won't be shooting at this little fellow.

Four N-class ships were built - one each for the Home and Caribbean Fleet's battleship and armored cruiser flagships - and a one-for-one replacement is possible. I might also add a unit to replace CL Bug as emergency VIP transport. The N-class could in turn could be re-purposed as destroyer leaders or simply modified to replace their own command facilities with more firepower and a typical torpedo-boat role.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
2,490 t light; 2,621 t standard; 2,990 t normal; 3,285 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(415.78 ft / 401.90 ft) x 39.37 ft x (15.75 / 16.80 ft)
(126.73 m / 122.50 m) x 12.00 m x (4.80 / 5.12 m)

Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 264 lbs / 120 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,960 shp / 41,000 Kw = 33.47 kts
Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 664 tons

Complement:
201 - 262

Cost:
£1.415 million / $5.660 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 52 tons, 1.8%
- Guns: 52 tons, 1.8%
Armour: 22 tons, 0.7%
- Armament: 22 tons, 0.7%
Machinery: 1,504 tons, 50.3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 699 tons, 23.4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 500 tons, 16.7%
Miscellaneous weights: 212 tons, 7.1%
- Hull below water: 25 tons
- On freeboard deck: 87 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons

Fittings:
-25 t: Sonar and Enhanced Hydrophone Package (BW)
-16 t: 1x4 530mm heavyweight torpedo carriage, no reloads (FD)
-10 t: ASW munitions TBD (FD)
-50 t: Command facilities (FD)
-6 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Extra signaling equipment (larger masts, flag lockers, etc): AD
-35 t: L/R and second S/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-10 t: Destroyer-scale Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-11 t + 14 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
848 lbs / 385 Kg = 27.8 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.420 / 0.433
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 41.00%, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 24.00%, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 17.01 ft / 5.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.8%
Waterplane Area: 9,865 Square feet or 916 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 179 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.80
- Overall: 0.56
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The Rock Doctor · May 04, 2024, 04:05:02 PM

An alternate refit of Szermierz, which retains the main battery and the small tertiary battery (starshell, saluting, etc), while replacing the secondaries with DP mounts and adding a hefty light AA suite.

New fire control, wifi, nightfighting doodads, and a Huelsmeyer Device/early radar installation are also added. A single scout plane and catapult are parked on the stern - the usual Union practice of installing these amidships is impractical on account of the three closely spaced funnels.

Cost is: $0.98/0.715BP

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   32,842 t light; 34,456 t standard; 36,342 t normal; 37,850 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (750.07 ft / 738.19 ft) x 91.86 ft (Bulges 95.14 ft) x (30.18 / 31.25 ft)
   (228.62 m / 225.00 m) x 28.00 m (Bulges 29.00 m) x (9.20 / 9.52 m)

Armament:
9 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.36lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
     3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,148 lbs / 5,964 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   479.82 ft / 146.25 m   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   258.33 ft / 78.74 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      3.15" / 80 mm   479.82 ft / 146.25 m   28.48 ft / 8.68 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.46 ft / 23.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm        -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm        -
   5th:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 3.54" / 90 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 134,049 shp / 100,000 Kw = 29.51 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,394 tons

Complement:
   1,315 - 1,710

Cost:
   £5.025 million / $20.100 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,315 tons, 6.4%
     - Guns: 2,315 tons, 6.4%
   Armour: 12,010 tons, 33.0%
     - Belts: 4,370 tons, 12.0%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,592 tons, 4.4%
     - Armament: 2,511 tons, 6.9%
     - Armour Deck: 3,229 tons, 8.9%
     - Conning Tower: 307 tons, 0.8%
   Machinery: 4,994 tons, 13.7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,721 tons, 35.0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,500 tons, 9.6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 802 tons, 2.2%
     - Hull below water: 165 tons
     - Hull above water: 164 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 53 tons
     - Above deck: 420 tons

Fittings:
-329 t: Extra damage control gear (original) (BW/AW)
-30 t: Armed scoutplane and catapult (new) (FD)
-100 t: Flag facilities (original) (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (new) (AD)
-25 t: Huelsmeyer Device (new) (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (new) (AD)
-232 t: Fire control (new) (AD)
23 t + 13 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48,611 lbs / 22,050 Kg = 37.2 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00%, 30.18 ft / 9.20 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00%, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00%, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      24.75 ft / 7.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.4%
   Waterplane Area: 49,597 Square feet or 4,608 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 894 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

350 and 100 mm guns retained are 2049 t and 2422 t. After it's 2315 and 2511

And I want 232 + 100 (is original) Flag + LR/HD/NF 75 above deck
and at least 30 on the deck okay it's 53

So that's 232 +75+53 = 360 MW

Guns: .532/.266
Armor: .089/.089
MW: .360/.360
======
$.98/.715BP

The Rock Doctor · May 04, 2024, 07:48:17 PM

Updated Hydry class carrier. Has a TDS, and I upgraded the airgroup to 48 or 40 aircraft. Kindly refer to the "E" sketch below. "C" would be the variant I posted at the bottom of page 11 of this thread, it's a little smaller.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   18,836 t light; 19,545 t standard; 21,155 t normal; 22,444 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (760.60 ft / 705.38 ft) x 75.46 ft x (26.25 / 27.48 ft)
   (231.83 m / 215.00 m) x 23.00 m x (8.00 / 8.38 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 500 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.19lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 880 lbs / 399 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   521.98 ft / 159.10 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 114% of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.57" / 40 mm   521.98 ft / 159.10 m   23.75 ft / 7.24 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm        -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 128,016 shp / 95,500 Kw = 32.02 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,899 tons

Complement:
   876 - 1,140

Cost:
   £5.778 million / $23.113 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 251 tons, 1.2%
     - Guns: 251 tons, 1.2%
   Armour: 3,499 tons, 16.5%
     - Belts: 1,363 tons, 6.4%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 722 tons, 3.4%
     - Armament: 98 tons, 0.5%
     - Armour Deck: 1,315 tons, 6.2%
   Machinery: 3,779 tons, 17.9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,949 tons, 32.8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,320 tons, 11.0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 4,359 tons, 20.6%
     - Hull below water: 1,936 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,920 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 153 tons
     - Above deck: 350 tons

Fittings:
-1,920 + 1,920 t: Airgroup (BW/AW)
-16 t: 4x1 530mm heavyweight torpedoes, fixed astern, no reloads (BW)
-50 t: 2 steam catapults (FD)
-50 + 50 t: Flag facilities (FD/AD)
-100 t: Flight operations (AD)
-26 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-60 t: Redundant L/R + extra S/R wireless (AD)
-53 + 79 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,098 lbs / 15,466 Kg = 508.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.95

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.537
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 41.99 ft / 12.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   11.00%, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   34.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      29.74 ft / 9.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 234.1%
   Waterplane Area: 36,459 Square feet or 3,387 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.12
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

WP Area allows: 52 planes
48 or 40 planes

Kaiser Kirk · May 05, 2024, 07:39:28 PM

On the carrier, a
What is the reasoning on the fixed aft torpedoes?
And what does the -50 +50 for Flag facilities mean?

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on May 04, 2024, 04:05:02 PMAnd I want 232 + 100 (is original) Flag + LR/HD/NF 75 above deck
and at least 30 on the deck okay it's 53

Overall it seems a redoubtable vessel.
I'm not keen on the 50mm class for AA, but given the time frame, I can
see the same reasons that led to Parthia fielding the 57mm for a while.

The quoted passage I'm failing to puzzle out the meaning.

The Rock Doctor · May 06, 2024, 05:12:23 AM

The quote is notes to myself that I should have scrubbed.

There's a hundred tonnes for command facilities split between freeboard deck and above deck.

The torpedos are something to throw at pursuers. This is probably the last class they'll be in.

Kaiser Kirk · May 06, 2024, 05:18:12 PM

Well, I'm building a series of cruisers and armored cruisers specifically for high speed tilts to sweep the area behind the enemy battleline for support vessels such as oilers and carriers. Who knows, others may emulate and those torpedoes may be seen as a wise concept.

The Rock Doctor · May 06, 2024, 05:22:09 PM

In which case I will charge royalties of some kind.

Kaiser Kirk · May 07, 2024, 08:44:58 AM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on May 06, 2024, 05:22:09 PMIn which case I will charge royalties of some kind.

I already paid one of princely rank...

The Rock Doctor · May 10, 2024, 07:13:41 PM

A refit of the Type 1917 Submarine Chaser would:

-Replace the basic hydrophone package with an enhanced hydrophone package
-Replace the old armament with new weapons
-Update the ASW weapons, fire control, and add a searchlight

...making them marginally more useful in the coastal defence function. Cost looks to be $0.04 and 0.036 BP each and I think I've got ten units or thereabouts.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   194 t light; 206 t standard; 220 t normal; 231 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (138.21 ft / 131.23 ft) x 19.03 ft x (6.56 / 6.80 ft)
   (42.13 m / 40.00 m) x 5.80 m x (2.00 / 2.07 m)

Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 9 lbs / 4 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm        -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,413 shp / 1,800 Kw = 19.95 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 25 tons

Complement:
   28 - 37

Cost:
   £0.036 million / $0.145 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 1.3 %
     - Guns: 3 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.7 %
     - Armament: 1 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 88 tons, 40.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 69 tons, 31.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 26 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 32 tons, 14.5 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 15 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Fittings:
-15 t: Enhanced Hydrophone Package (BW)
-15 t: Some combo of modern ASW weapons and weight reserve TBD (FD)
-1 t: Fire control (AD)
-1 t: Searchlight (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     134 lbs / 61 Kg = 35.2 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 9.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.476
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 11.81 ft / 3.60 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      9.41 ft / 2.87 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,620 Square feet or 151 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 98 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.62
      - Longitudinal: 6.69
      - Overall: 0.79
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

.006/.003
.001/.001
.032/.032
=======
.039/.036

The Rock Doctor · May 10, 2024, 07:38:33 PM

The 2,700 t Wesoly class depot ships were hastily built in 1912 to give a basic fleet...well, squadron...support capability for the navy as it was getting involved in the big scramble for overseas territories. For some reason, I built them to military specifications.

Anyway, they're now twenty years old and due for some tender loving care.

A basic refit would replace the armament with a DP gun or two and some light AA, plus a tonne for new fire control. Super cheap.

A refurbishment could replace the machinery with new T-E machinery and achieve a higher top speed, plus a change to oil bunkerage. This would cost...I dunno, $0.75 and maybe 0.200 BP or thereabouts.

Alternately, I could just scrap them and build new depot ships of just under 3,000 t. They'd have similar-ish capabilities compared to the post-refurbishment version above. But I'd be building them to civilian standards. That would cost about $0.75 and 0.75 BP. That would be offset by the cost of the refurbishment above, plus the scrap value of the original ship (~$0.40/0.40 BP.

So I'm kind of thinking I should just build the replacements and slide them in under the original name-plate.

The Rock Doctor · May 11, 2024, 01:59:21 PM

The proposed small depot ship in question. It's the kind of vessel that might support a light cruiser and escorts, or a torpedo-boat squadron, or a mix of patrol and MTB assets in a secondary location.

Reasonably armed, and in all parts of the ship, for air-defence purposes. Relatively fast for a depot ship to facilitate movements within the area of operations, though it won't be enough to escape surface threats.

Edit: Okay, not reasonably fast, I thought I was working with 20kts rather than 18.

The miscellaneous weight isn't sub-divided, yet, but probably would include some operations space for small-craft leaders, medical facilities and crew amenities, some long-duration accommodation, workshops, and stores.

Not surprisingly it does borrow looks from other small auxiliaries I've sketched of late.

Small Depot Ship, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   2,998 t light; 3,101 t standard; 3,708 t normal; 4,193 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (293.83 ft / 285.43 ft) x 52.49 ft x (15.75 / 17.37 ft)
   (89.56 m / 87.00 m) x 16.00 m x (4.80 / 5.30 m)

Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mount, 1932 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 79 lbs / 36 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm        -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,703 shp / 5,000 Kw = 17.98 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,092 tons

Complement:
   236 - 308

Cost:
   £0.623 million / $2.492 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 17 tons, 0.5 %
     - Guns: 17 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.1 %
     - Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 198 tons, 5.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 969 tons, 26.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 710 tons, 19.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,812 tons, 48.9 %
     - Hull below water: 400 tons
     - Hull above water: 500 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 512 tons
     - Above deck: 400 tons

Fittings:
-25 t: L/R wireless
-2 t: Fire control
-1,700 t: Ship support for 17,000 t of warships
-85 t: Weight reserve/dunno yet

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,128 lbs / 4,594 Kg = 331.9 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.89

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.564
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Average freeboard:      16.06 ft / 4.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 46.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,457 Square feet or 971 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 165 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 302 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.79
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

The Rock Doctor · May 11, 2024, 05:38:23 PM

Basic refit of the Huth-class coastal minelayers.

This replaces the armament with newer and better stuff, adds a modicum of FC, a searchlight, enhanced hydrophones, and some ASW munitions just in case a submarine makes an appearance.

The minelaying and sweeping gear remains untouched, and I didn't see a need to tinker with the machinery or bunkerage.

Cost is estimated at $0.04 and 0.035 BP per unit, and there are four units in the class.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1915

Displacement:
   753 t light; 781 t standard; 885 t normal; 969 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (223.58 ft / 213.25 ft) x 32.81 ft x (8.86 / 9.48 ft)
   (68.15 m / 65.00 m) x 10.00 m x (2.70 / 2.89 m)

Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose gun in deck mount, 1915 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      1 raised mount
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mount, 1915 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 22 lbs / 10 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm        -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm        -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,413 ihp / 1,800 Kw = 17.06 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 187 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   80 - 105

Cost:
   £0.073 million / $0.291 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 0.6 %
     - Guns: 5 tons, 0.6 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.6 %
     - Armament: 5 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 158 tons, 17.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 335 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 133 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 249 tons, 28.1 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 232 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Fittings:
-15 t: Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-50 t: Sweeping kit (FD)
-170 t: Lots of mines (FD)
-4 t: Weight reserve (FD)
-8 t: ASW munitions TBD (FD)
-1 t: Fire control (AD)
-1 t: Search light (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,424 lbs / 1,099 Kg = 188.3 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m, 8.53 ft / 2.60 m
     - Average freeboard:      15.22 ft / 4.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,662 Square feet or 433 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 151 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 181 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.74
      - Longitudinal: 6.42
      - Overall: 0.92
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - Main Battery

The Rock Doctor · May 11, 2024, 07:04:36 PM

Basic refit of the Rybolow class korsarz is much the same as everything else: New armament, new FC, a bit of fiddle-farting around the edges.

Cost looks to be $0.18 and 0.112 BP each, with two units.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   4,356 t light; 4,507 t standard; 4,880 t normal; 5,178 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (491.08 ft / 482.28 ft) x 45.93 ft x (15.42 / 16.13 ft)
   (149.68 m / 147.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.70 / 4.92 m)

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 45,577 shp / 34,000 Kw = 30.07 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 671 tons

Complement:
   291 - 379

Cost:
   £0.752 million / $3.009 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 66 tons, 1.4 %
     - Guns: 66 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 19 tons, 0.4 %
     - Armament: 19 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,671 tons, 34.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,609 tons, 33.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 524 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 991 tons, 20.3 %
     - Hull below water: 148 tons
     - Hull above water: 300 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 480 tons
     - Above deck: 63 tons

Fittings:
-148 t: Fuel and ordnance for small craft (BW)
-300 t: Accommodation for 150 small craft people (AW)
-480 t: Davits and eight 20t small craft (FD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-10 t: Small Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-7 t: Fire control (AD)
-11 t: Weight reserve (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,498 lbs / 1,587 Kg = 52.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Aft deck:   20.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.45 ft / 5.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,759 Square feet or 1,371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 312 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - Main Battery

.132/.066
.019/.019
.027/.027
=====
.178/.112

7 FC, 10 NF, 10 DHD
LRW stays the same