Vilnius Union Ships, 1930+: The Good, The Bad, and the Unseaworthy

Kaiser Kirk · April 07, 2024, 01:44:55 PM

Always interesting to see parallel designs.
Pretty sure your mention/posting of an oiler...or my actually finally getting the tech
led to my Royn.

Overall your vessel is the same size, but faster with slightly more fuel and a tiny bit more misc wt.

Curiously you went with a raised forecastle and midship break- unusual for merchants.

Curiously I did not view it as needed/justified to have a higher sprint speed,
so my engine weighs half of what yours does...but you still have misc wt advantages.

I think that's a hull form issue - mine is less efficient than yours.
I had two parameters
- 141m or less so that it would fit in 'standard' merchant docks,
- <7.5 and optimally 6.5m draft so it can fit in shallower harbors/river deltas/etc.
So my Beam AND BC is larger, making it far less efficient propulsion wise.

The Rock Doctor · April 11, 2024, 08:21:35 PM

Indeed, my dock break-point is 150 metres, and I'm less concerned about rivers and shallow areas.

The freeboard is a bit unusual, I agree. I think I was borrowing from some Soviet-era designs there.

The Rock Doctor · April 11, 2024, 08:30:14 PM

The Union is getting back to korwetas after a pause of a few years as it built up an inventory of coastal escorts and harbour defence boats. The korweta is well-armed for its size and capable of operating in open oceanic conditions...to a point...but lacks the endurance to actually cross oceans.

As many as twenty could be built over the coming years as the navy replaces the big old batch of vintage patrol cutters in home waters and augments its patrol groups in various colonial settings.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   499 t light; 533 t standard; 603 t normal; 660 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (184.33 ft / 172.24 ft) x 24.61 ft x (10.17 / 10.88 ft)
   (56.18 m / 52.50 m) x 7.50 m x (3.10 / 3.32 m)

Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mount, 1932 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 70 lbs / 32 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm        -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 5,362 shp / 4,000 Kw = 21.43 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 127 tons

Complement:
   60 - 79

Cost:
   £0.197 million / $0.789 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 2.4%
     - Guns: 14 tons, 2.4%
   Armour: 10 tons, 1.6%
     - Armament: 10 tons, 1.6%
   Machinery: 158 tons, 26.2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 204 tons, 33.7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 105 tons, 17.3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 113 tons, 18.7%
     - Hull below water: 65 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 41 tons
     - Above deck: 7 tons

Fittings:
-40 t: Electric drive (BW)
-25 t: Sonar and enhanced hydrophone package (BW)
-20 t: ASW fit TBD (FD)
-21 t: Weight reserve/TBD (FD)
-2 t: Fire control, such as it is (AD)
-5 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     674 lbs / 306 Kg = 22.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.501
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.12 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00%, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00%, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00%, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Average freeboard:      16.06 ft / 4.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.9%
   Waterplane Area: 2,798 Square feet or 260 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 17.48
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Jefgte · April 12, 2024, 12:55:27 AM

At 12kts, it can reach the Atlantic colonies and participate to their protection.

The Rock Doctor · April 15, 2024, 08:11:21 PM

And here we have a tall ship for sail-training, which is of course a valuable skill in 1932, and for the pleasure of the queen, which is also somewhat relevant. Much of the design and the graphics borrow closely from the German Gorch Fock.

It's full rigging, which makes for a maximum speed of just under 11 knots. A small diesel-electric drive provides considerable cruising range if everybody gets tired of working the rigging or sea conditions are too iffy.

The ship does not carry a long-range wireless or anything beyond navigational lighting, and is armed solely with a pair of QF guns that are mainly in place for saluting purposes. I suppose I could design for but not equip with a few machine guns for port security purposes.

As far as I can tell, I've complied with our guidelines for full rigging, but feel free to check me on that. There's lots of hull strength to fix up incorrect miscellaneous weights if need be.

Given that I went to the trouble of sketching this thing, it's a given that I'll lay her down.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   2,448 t light; 2,500 t standard; 2,550 t normal; 2,590 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (302.84 ft / 265.75 ft) x 39.37 ft x (17.06 / 17.25 ft)
   (92.31 m / 81.00 m) x 12.00 m x (5.20 / 5.26 m)

Armament:
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 3 kg

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 939 shp / 700 Kw = 11.31 kts
Sailing speed = Up to 10.87 knots (full rigging)
   Range 3,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 90 tons

Complement:
   179 - 233

Cost:
   £0.409 million / $1.636 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.1%
     - Guns: 2 tons, 0.1%
   Machinery: 28 tons, 1.1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,699 tons, 66.6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 4.0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 720 tons, 28.2%
     - Hull below water: 182 tons
     - Hull void weights: 200 tons
     - Hull above water: 300 tons
     - Above deck: 38 tons

Fittings:
-16 t: D-E machinery (BW)
-166 t + 38 t: Masts (BW/AD)
-200 t: Ballast (void)
-300 t: Accommodation and training spaces for 100 cadets (AW)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,082 lbs / 5,027 Kg = 2,905.7 x 2.0 " / 50 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.502
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00%, 22.31 ft / 6.80 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00%, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
     - Aft deck:   20.00%, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m, 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   30.00%, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
     - Average freeboard:      16.72 ft / 5.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 25.9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.1%
   Waterplane Area: 6,971 Square feet or 648 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 327%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 595 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 2.07
      - Longitudinal: 11.81
      - Overall: 2.46
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Kaiser Kirk · April 15, 2024, 11:35:29 PM

The patrol cutter fills the same niche as my recent Sturgeon class.
Those are meant to be the 'Regular' leaders to the Patrol Sloop 'Reserve' (aux) groups.

The tall ship I've considered doing, but refurbished the Artesmia sailing frigates instead.
If I have the time I'll dig up my copy and check the rigging math.

The Rock Doctor · April 16, 2024, 06:16:22 PM

A planned refit for the Type 1917 korweta would:

-Replace the armament: $0.016/0.008 for the guns and $0.006/0.006 for the gun armor
-Add a sonar dome: $0.01/0.01
-Replace and increase the ASW armament: $0.02/0.02
-Update fire control: $0.001/0.001
-Add some nightfighting doodads: $0.005/0.005

For a total cost of $0.058/0.040 BP per unit.

I've also fixed an error and toggled electric drives for machinery. While I allocated and paid the miscellaneous weight for it originally, I only toggled the geared turbines in the machinery tab.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   435 t light; 458 t standard; 490 t normal; 516 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (162.59 ft / 157.48 ft) x 24.61 ft x (9.84 / 10.21 ft)
   (49.56 m / 48.00 m) x 7.50 m x (3.00 / 3.11 m)

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose gun in deck mount, 1917 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1917 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      1 raised mount
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 40 lbs / 18 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.12" / 3 mm        -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.12" / 3 mm        -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 4,022 shp / 3,000 Kw = 20.46 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 59 tons

Complement:
   51 - 67

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.278 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 1.7%
     - Guns: 8 tons, 1.7%
   Armour: 6 tons, 1.1%
     - Armament: 6 tons, 1.1%
   Machinery: 147 tons, 30.1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 178 tons, 36.3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 55 tons, 11.2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 96 tons, 19.6%
     - Hull below water: 62 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 29 tons
     - Above deck: 5 tons

Fittings:
-37 t: T-E machinery (BW)
-25 t: Sonar and EHP (BW)
-20 t: ASW payload TBD (FD)
-8 t: Miscellaneous weight (FD)
-1 t: 1924 fire control (AD)
-5 t: Nightfighting doodads (mostly AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     522 lbs / 237 Kg = 17.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.61

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.457
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00%, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00%, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Aft deck:   25.00%, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m, 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      12.91 ft / 3.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.4%
   Waterplane Area: 2,472 Square feet or 230 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.69
      - Longitudinal: 11.45
      - Overall: 0.92
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - Main Battery: I'll do what I want.

The Rock Doctor · April 16, 2024, 06:39:39 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 16, 2024, 08:29:08 AMRefurbishment for the monitor Attakulla, arguably a little earlier than is actually necessary. Since the only thing that would change in a year or two is the model of fire control, I might hold off until 1932 or 1933 to actually do this, I dunno.

Issue-wise, she has a big secondary battery (12x130) but a light AA battery that might not be adequate at this point. I noticed I was under-costing the fire control and would need to add 20t out of the limited miscellaneous weight reserve just for that.

So I'm going to yank out 2x2 130mm and replace them with a bunch of 50mm and 15mm light guns. The remaining 130mm guns will be replaced with 4x2 130mm DP. That allows a net weight savings, which I'll put to fixing the FC value, adding nightfighting doodads, and installing a Huelsmeyer device.

I considered replacing 2x2 130mm with 4x2 100mm AA or DP, while leaving the rest of the 130mm as QF guns. This is actually more weight-intensive and made the NF/Huelsmeyer/weight reserve balancing act very tricky, so I rejected it.

Changing up the 130mm guns should make this a refurbishment. I haven't costed this out yet, but I'm guessing around $3.50 and 0.5 BP.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1918

Displacement:
   12,662 t light; 13,391 t standard; 14,249 t normal; 14,935 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (447.08 ft / 436.35 ft) x 101.71 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (16.24 / 16.95 ft)
   (136.27 m / 133.00 m) x 31.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (4.95 / 5.17 m)

Armament:
3 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1918 Model
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1931 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      1 raised mount
10 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,536 lbs / 2,965 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   283.63 ft / 86.45 m   16.11 ft / 4.91 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   152.69 ft / 46.54 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -12.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.95" / 75 mm   283.63 ft / 86.45 m   15.42 ft / 4.70 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm        -
   5th:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,425 shp / 7,031 Kw = 15.81 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,544 tons

Complement:
   651 - 847

Cost:
   £2.193 million / $8.772 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,311 tons, 9.2%
     - Guns: 1,311 tons, 9.2%
   Armour: 4,418 tons, 31.0%
     - Belts: 1,831 tons, 12.8%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 478 tons, 3.4%
     - Armament: 603 tons, 4.2%
     - Armour Deck: 1,406 tons, 9.9%
     - Conning Tower: 100 tons, 0.7%
   Machinery: 340 tons, 2.4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,221 tons, 43.7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,586 tons, 11.1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 373 tons, 2.6%
     - On freeboard deck: 48 tons
     - Above deck: 325 tons

Fittings:
-132 t: Fire control (AD)
-100 t: Command facilities (AD)
-25 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t: L/R wireless (AD)
-25 t: Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-48 t + 18 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42,329 lbs / 19,200 Kg = 21.7 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 11.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.59
   Metacentric height 11.1 ft / 3.4 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   25.00%, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forward deck:   20.00%, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
     - Aft deck:   40.00%, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.11 ft / 5.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182.8%
   Waterplane Area: 33,997 Square feet or 3,158 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 805 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - 3rd Battery yeah yeah whatever

Costing:

New armament: $0.27/0.135
New armament armor: $0.052/.052
New FC: $0.132/0.132
New nightfighting doodads & Huelsmeyer: $0.05/0.05
Refurb: $2.532
====
$3.04/0.369 BP

TacCovert4 · April 17, 2024, 09:07:10 AM

The refurbishment issue with the M&H is what's holding back the Uhlans, M-class BBs, and Victories in Aztec service. While the new 120mm DP gun will 1 for 1 with the older 130mm gun, the necessity of changing deep hull things makes it a question for me of whether to do a refurbishment now, or later in the 30s when DP guns are necessary rather than nice to have.....and take the time to do a really deep refurbishment with significant changes while the ship is opened up.

The Rock Doctor · April 20, 2024, 06:10:52 PM

The Hydry class carriers are an incremental development from the Centaury class, with capacity for a few more planes (40 or 33 planes), an upgraded armament, and heavier armor - on par with contemporary light cruisers.

The more unusual developments related to the ship's stern, where the sternchaser gun mounting has been deleted and instead a rather substantial deck overhang has been installed. It provides for a longer flight deck than the Centaury class, which will probably help out with flight operations and deck parking.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   16,462 t light; 17,120 t standard; 18,607 t normal; 19,797 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (747.48 ft / 692.26 ft) x 75.46 ft x (24.93 / 26.13 ft)
   (227.83 m / 211.00 m) x 23.00 m x (7.60 / 7.96 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 500 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 880 lbs / 399 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   449.97 ft / 137.15 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm        -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 117,963 shp / 88,000 Kw = 32.02 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,677 tons

Complement:
   796 - 1,035

Cost:
   £5.212 million / $20.847 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 251 tons, 1.3%
     - Guns: 251 tons, 1.3%
   Armour: 2,519 tons, 13.5%
     - Belts: 1,200 tons, 6.4%
     - Armament: 98 tons, 0.5%
     - Armour Deck: 1,221 tons, 6.6%
   Machinery: 3,482 tons, 18.7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,557 tons, 35.2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,146 tons, 11.5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,653 tons, 19.6%
     - Hull below water: 1,616 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,600 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 137 tons
     - Above deck: 300 tons

Fittings:
-1,600 + 1,600 t: Airgroup (BW/AW)
-16 t: 4x1 530mm heavyweight torpedoes, fixed astern, no reloads (BW)
-50 t: 2 steam catapults (FD)
-50 + 50 t: Flag facilities (FD/AD)
-100 t: Flight operations (AD)
-26 t: Fire control (AD)
-25 t: Huelsmeyer device (AD)
-10 t: Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-60 t: Redundant L/R + extra S/R wireless (AD)
-37 + 29 t: Weight reserve (FD/AD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,638 lbs / 13,897 Kg = 457.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.17 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.31 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 41.99 ft / 12.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00%, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   25.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      29.92 ft / 9.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 245.9%
   Waterplane Area: 34,804 Square feet or 3,233 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 526 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

WP Area allows: 49 planes
40 or33 planes

Kaiser Kirk · April 20, 2024, 07:57:35 PM

Looks like a nice carrier, I'm a little surprised to see no TDS, there is room for one on that beam.

The Rock Doctor · April 20, 2024, 08:12:16 PM

That would add a couple thousand tonnes to the displacement, alas.

Kaiser Kirk · April 20, 2024, 08:33:11 PM

you've got 1600 tons just laying around on the flight deck..

The Rock Doctor · April 20, 2024, 08:45:42 PM

I don't follow.

The Rock Doctor · April 21, 2024, 06:13:03 AM

Alternate take. Gains about 800t, adds a basic TDS. The armor belt is longer and thinner as a compromise.

Jumping to about 17,900 t lets me retain the 100mm thick main belt.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
   17,232 t light; 17,907 t standard; 19,433 t normal; 20,654 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (750.76 ft / 695.54 ft) x 75.46 ft x (25.92 / 27.14 ft)
   (228.83 m / 212.00 m) x 23.00 m x (7.90 / 8.27 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 500 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, majority aft
16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.19lbs / 1.90kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 880 lbs / 399 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   514.70 ft / 156.88 m   16.37 ft / 4.99 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 114% of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 16.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.57" / 40 mm   514.70 ft / 156.88 m   22.80 ft / 6.95 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 55.77 ft / 17.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm        -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,644 shp / 90,000 Kw = 32.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,747 tons

Complement:
   822 - 1,069

Cost:
   £5.385 million / $21.539 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 251 tons, 1.3%
     - Guns: 251 tons, 1.3%
   Armour: 3,051 tons, 15.7%
     - Belts: 1,007 tons, 5.2%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 684 tons, 3.5%
     - Armament: 98 tons, 0.5%
     - Armour Deck: 1,262 tons, 6.5%
   Machinery: 3,561 tons, 18.3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,673 tons, 34.3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,201 tons, 11.3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,697 tons, 19.0%
     - Hull below water: 1,616 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,600 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 131 tons
     - Above deck: 350 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,239 lbs / 14,623 Kg = 480.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.22 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 41.99 ft / 12.80 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   11.00%, 34.45 ft / 10.50 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   34.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00%, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      29.74 ft / 9.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 239.3%
   Waterplane Area: 34,969 Square feet or 3,249 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 530 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

WP Area allows: 49 planes
40 or33 planes