Territory Count

[TacCovert4]

I'm good with an Enclave status that allows BP to be constructed.  For the Aztecs, it would make quite a bit of sense for BP to be constructible in our African and Zealand holdings, as they would have built up a significant colonial importance and be both strategically important and commercially viable.  Or the Windward Islands, though they can't really support the population for more than one or two BP.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm good with an Enclave status that allows BP to be constructed.  For the Aztecs, it would make quite a bit of sense for BP to be constructible in our African and Zealand holdings, as they would have built up a significant colonial importance and be both strategically important and commercially viable.  Or the Windward Islands, though they can't really support the population for more than one or two BP.

One thing I wish in 1912 Snip& I  had made island groups 1 IC max for just that reason. ...and pre-emptively drawn them on the map. Did the latter later.
If we had paired that with Port Symbols allowing +1 IC, that would be interesting. Oh well, hindsight always helps.

[The Rock Doctor]

I think there's some merit in having a bit of BP outside the homelands.  It's reasonable for places we've held a while to build up industrial capability and get to the point where they can produce steel. 

I wouldn't expect this to be an option with a newly-grabbed territory that was just jungle two years ago, but anything we grabbed in the initial expansion wave would be fine.

[Jefgte]

I think there's some merit in having a bit of BP outside the homelands.  It's reasonable for places we've held a while to build up industrial capability and get to the point where they can produce steel...

I consider a large naval base like Diego Suarez, Headquarters of the East Indian Ocean (Madagascar and East Africa) as capable of repairing and maintaining ships with its 4 large dry docks.
They have mechanical workshops with qualified personnel, cranes and raw materials imported from the homelands (steel plates, fittings, spare parts, guns, ammunition, food, hospital... everything necessary to maintain a Colonial fleet (DD, CL, CB, BB).
In addition, it can build ocean gunboats (large TGB) but not DD, CL, CB or BB.

It is therefore not stupid to grant additional IC, BP or $.
=> Ditto for your large colonial naval bases, friends.

[Jefgte]

And now, the rest of us get to draw up the Ethiopian fleet.......

It already exists.

https://www.navalism.org/index.php/board,695.0.html

	ETHIOPIA
Quantity	Class	Displacement	LD		Speed	Dimensions	Armament	Armor
1	Solomonic	17500	1906		25kts	150x26	2T2x255+6T2x180	B320-100-T320-D90
1	Ethiopia	7914	1903		18	123x18	2T2x255+4T2x180	B220-100-T250-D50
1	VdT	14860	1904		25	175x23	4T2x255+4T2x180	B200-100-T240-D45
2	Bismarck	15783	1901-03		24	170x23	3T2x255+12x152	B150-100-T152-D51
1	Exorcist	9226	1910		25	140x21	2T2x255+2T2x180	B250-100-T250-D64
2	PC	6000	1909		27	150x16	8x180	B120-T65-D30
3	CGB	3000	1903		16	90x16	2x180+2x120	B90-T90-D30
3	Minelayer	2150	1890		18	96x12	6x100+130minen
12	DD	1000	1918		31	87x9	4x90+12TTx533
12	TB	500	1904		26	70x7	4x100+4TTx457
48	TB	345	1900		27	72x7	1x75+4TTx457

[Kaiser Kirk]

Three subjects : 

Enclaves : 
I think it's reasonable to have a variant of the 'Concession' Rule that can be done domestically.
         
* As Concessions can have 5 IC, and a Normal Territory 2, that's a good limit for the Enclave, and would be+3 IC potential per Enclave.

* I would advocate for up to 2 BP per Enclave. They would be bought at the same price as a Home BP,
                  but would produce any BP 'on site' allowing LP/AP/DP/FP to be built across oceans from your homeland.
                  Otherwise they have to be built, then shipped over.  Conceptually that's what's happening with material
                  for any ships built in the territories - hull plating is shipped over and then formed, guns built and shipped, etc.

* Only Port Symbols may be designated as Enclaves. I think the advantages of a natural harbor make that reasonable.

I am inclined to say they be barred from benefiting from Rich symbols?  Stacking the bonuses seems unreasonable. Though
I am absolutely certain Parthia has at least 2...if not more..that have both Port and Rich....hmm more money....I need that...

The Last question is...How Many Enclaves.  I do not think it should be infinite or a large number, as that would undermine
much of the reason for expansion and concessions in the first place.
1  seems to few.
2  or 3 seems about right
4  is now +12 IC allowed. That seems a little large, but would conveniently mean the extra IC that Jefgte built would have a home....

Thoughts?

Drydocks :
Conceptually, I at least regard having drydocks as meaning you have cranes, engine shops, light armor foundries and a variety of fabrication and repair facilities.

Also, cruiser to battleship drydocks, or concentration of drydocks, along with a cruiser squadron or greater in tonnage are the rough measures I'm looking for to call something a major naval base or not for coastal defenses.
A bit fuzzy of an approach, but means folks aren't forced to micromanage and designate such things, just allocate their ships and docks which they are supposed to be doing anyways. (psst and I am so far behind in my OOB)...

Ethiopia :
Yes, Anchorsteam's work does make the foundation for the Ethiopian fleet. The classes are outdated.
While I know I was encouraged to put him there, in hindsight I should have put him in a different spot.
Suddenly having a major "active" nation in the Red Sea is too disruptive at this point.
The fleet is rather out of date though.

[Jefgte]

... As Concessions can have 5 IC, and a Normal Territory 2, that's a good limit for the Enclave, and would be+3 IC potential per Enclave...

This could give:

Three large industrial zones linked to the large naval bases of:
Madagascar - Diego Suarez => + 3 IC
Australia - Port Darwin => + 3 IC
Brazil - Salvador => + 3 IC
A small industrial area
Namibia - Walvis Bay => +1 IC

[TacCovert4]

For me I'd have Zealand,  Angola, and I'd like to have martinique.

[Kaiser Kirk]

On these of threads, I try to read, digest, post...
and then stay away for a couple days to let folks chat
without the 'mod' making declarative statements.

However there has not been a great deal of chit chat.

I think we've got the concept roughed out.
*Enclave 5 "average" IC max, 2 BP max.

*I think the "mod declare" will be that only Port symbols can be Enclaves.
  That will leave out places like Martinique, but will tie development to a known harbor with extensive hinterlands.
  When I very first started putting on Port Symbols, there were a few islands that got them (Jamaica, Trinidad), but then I narrowed
  the criteria and the rest did not.

*IF we were doing this from scratch, I would be in favor of only 2 Enclaves.
  - BUT...3 means Jefgte only 'looses' 2 IC, and 4 means he can build +1.
  Asking for Player Vote : 2, 3, or 4 ?


*Turnsheets
I think the enclaves should be listed under the home regions.
That way the sum columns and the formula that calculates the $ of new BP will work right.

The "Cash Income" column will need to be set to x1.5
The "Home Subtotal" cells will need to sum all the Home and enclave numbers.

The result would look something like this :

	Country Name	Budget for Period (19XX.X)				1912.5
	Regional Income
	Region Name		Region Type	IC	Cash Income	BP
	Name		H	10	$10.00	4
	Name		H	10	$10.00	4
	Name		H	10	$10.00	4
	Name		H	10	$10.00	3
	Name		H	10	$10.00	3
	Name		H	9	$9.00	3
	Name		H	9	$9.00	3
	Port Name – Region	Max 5 IC & 2 BP	Enclave	5	$7.50	2
	Port Name – Region	Max 5 IC & 2 BP	Enclave	3	$4.50	1
			Home Subtotal :	68	$80.00	27
	Colonial Region		Developed Provinces (with IC)
	by Name	Rich	Average	Poor
	mixed example	0	0	0	$0.00
	single example	0	0	0	$0.00
	rich example	0	0	0	$0.00
	ave example	0	0	0	$0.00
	poor example	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
				Colonial Subtotals :	$0.00
	Net Totals				$80.00	24

The

	Country Name	Budget for Period (19XX.X)				1912.5
	Regional Income
	Region Name		Region Type	IC	Cash Income	BP
	Name		H	10	$10.00	4
	Name		H	10	$10.00	4
	Name		H	10	$10.00	4
	Name		H	10	$10.00	3
	Name		H	10	$10.00	3
	Name		H	9	$9.00	3
	Name		H	9	$9.00	3
	Port Name – Region	Max 5 IC & 2 BP	Enclave	5	$7.50	2
	Port Name – Region	Max 5 IC & 2 BP	Enclave	3	$4.50	1
			Home Subtotal :	68	$80.00	27
	Colonial Region		Developed Provinces (with IC)
	by Name	Rich	Average	Poor
	mixed example	0	0	0	$0.00
	single example	0	0	0	$0.00
	rich example	0	0	0	$0.00
	ave example	0	0	0	$0.00
	poor example	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
	Name	0	0	0	$0.00
				Colonial Subtotals :	$0.00
	Net Totals				$80.00	24

[TacCovert4]

3 enclaves.

[The Rock Doctor]

I can go with three or four.

I assume BP costs would be on par with homelands at the least - it'd be expensive to create industry from scratch.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I assume BP costs would be on par with homelands at the least - it'd be expensive to create industry from scratch.

The BP cost in an enclave will be the same as your homeland, scaling with the number of BP you already have.

Conceptually, it's a primate city, centered on a bustling tradeport, attracting investment to exploit the wider resources of your territorial system. The advantage of BP would be to allow you to stand up Land or Air forces without shipping them from 'home', or even build warships relying on local ore sources.

[TacCovert4]

And 5 IC allows for more defensive units to be supported locally without DP

[The Rock Doctor]

So "extensive hinterlands" would suggest to me that a place like Puerto Rico won't work.  One province, even if it is adjacent to some other holdings. 

Which would be fine, it's a base and not a building locale.

[TacCovert4]

I'm probably going to do San Diego, Luanda, and maybe Christchurch as my major hubs.  While Christchurch doesn't have massively extensive hinterlands, it does function as the primary base for the Pacific Fleet when away from Acapulco.  And it's the major Aztec trading hub in the Eastern Hemisphere along with Wake Island.  Luanda for obvious reasons as the major African Port, and San Diego because it's the direct Port for all of the upper territories.