Territory Count

[Kaiser Kirk]

Hi all,

I attempted to count all the territories each PC and NPC had claimed.

It's both been on my 'to do' list, and while preparing this turn's Status sheet, I noticed a potential problem.
Which is part of why that sheet exists.

From 'Colonization and Concessions'
"Colonial Upkeep
No colonial province may have more than two (2) IC present at any given time. "

Anyhow, unless I missed something, Byzantine has 109 territorial IC, and only 49 territories, so is
over by 11 more territorial IC than allowed (Territories x 2).

Rome may run out of space when updated.

Proposed Solution 'A'
When 1928.5 gets posted, the last 11 Territorial IC built are deleted, and the funds recorded as 'Other Income'
and can then be used to buy Homeland IC or BP as desired.

Since Territory IC gain $1.5/ HY, and Homeland only $1, there's a couple $$ that were gained and used,
which will be lost waiting for the Homeland IC to be built.

Proposed Solution 'B'
Others are free to suggest a better course of action.
Byzantine could also offer to buy territory, or seize it from an NPC.


First step is to ensure I had not made an error.
As I had not updated my count of who had how many provinces in a Loooong time, I undertook that.
The map is below. Probably dated wrong.

The results (same as attached spreadsheet) are :

Total Territories	Nation
78	Japan
186	Parthia
66	Azteca
68	Iberia
42	Rome
84	Norse
16	Five Tribes
13	Maya
143	Wilno
67	Inca
49	Byzantine
9	Deccan
38	Berbers
20	Rajasthan
39	Ethiopia
8	China
7	Laksmanavati

   

[TacCovert4]

Oh wow, I'm far short on territorial IC.  I can build out almost a hundred more before I'm maxed

[Jefgte]

...From 'Colonization and Concessions'
"Colonial Upkeep
No colonial province may have more than two (2) IC present at any given time... "

To make it simpler and without adding rules.
=> Remove this rule.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Sorry Jefgte, that rule was part of Snip's base concept. 

The time to revisit that was in pregame, or 1912 when the colonization rules were overhauled.
The 1912 revision added Ports as a key strategic concept, and Rich/Poor provinces, and ensured provinces could be developed
faster by providing lower costs for many via the Port/Prime/Coastal classes.

As I recall, Snip wanted dispersed holdings, with value, but low enough that one could fight, but would not need to do so "to the death".

but overall,  loosing 1 province- or 3 - or 5 - means a fairly low amount of IC and revenue at risk.

Also, with more than 2 IC in a province, why wouldn't a power just grab a block of 16 provinces for 1 "region"
and just continuously build those up. 10 IC per province would be 160 total- which none of us currently have.

Plus, since LP/DP/AP/FP are assigned on 'Region' basis, it would be far far easier to defend.
AND...with no cap, there's no temptation to rip off provinces from a neighbor


What I was looking for as a 'B' suggestion would be more limited.
I had the idea 'Port's can have 3 IC, the symbols make tracking it easy...but that really unfairly favors Parthia.

If folks have a balanced "B" suggestion, let's hear it.
Otherwise we will go with the existing ruleset.

[The Rock Doctor]

I agree that we've had the rule set in place for a long time and should follow it.

I am totally on board with a solution that doesn't penalize a good-faith mistake.

One notion:  We break out the "Concession rule" in some fashion.  Everybody gets to declare two appropriate provinces (I assume they'd require a port) as "concessions" and build up to the higher IC limit there.  Jef would already be part-way there, he just has to designate the two concessions and allocated the surplus IC to them.  The rest of us would have some catching up to do.

[TacCovert4]

I agree that we've had the rule set in place for a long time and should follow it.

I am totally on board with a solution that doesn't penalize a good-faith mistake.

One notion:  We break out the "Concession rule" in some fashion.  Everybody gets to declare two appropriate provinces (I assume they'd require a port) as "concessions" and build up to the higher IC limit there.  Jef would already be part-way there, he just has to designate the two concessions and allocated the surplus IC to them.  The rest of us would have some catching up to do.

I can concur with this.  Having a couple of colonies that just become far more industrialized makes a bit of sense.  Maybe quadruple the IC allowed in 2 designated port/Island provinces, and allow up to 2 BP to be built in those two enclaves.

I'm all for meeting him halfway, rather than making him reconfigure 11 IC around.  This would let him designate half the excess IC to two heavily developed enclaves, and the remaining could be converted into income and immediately into home province IC in the next update.

[Jefgte]

...Having a couple of colonies that just become far more industrialized makes a bit of sense...

Large colony naval bases with slipways or drydocks could benefit from 4 IC. (Diego Suárez, Salvador & Port Darwin for Byzance.)
Supply harbors could have 3 ICs.
Other...2 IC

[TacCovert4]

I can be on board with this.  Means there's extra investment than just building extra  IC alone.

[Jefgte]

...Proposed Solution 'A'
When 1928.5 gets posted, the last 11 Territorial IC built are deleted, and the funds recorded as 'Other Income'
and can then be used to buy Homeland IC or BP as desired...

I have 3 new IC in progress. 1928-29.
11 => 14

I deleted the ones I started.

[Jefgte]

Going down to 98 IC by removing the last investments in the colonies, the 1928H2 report becomes:
- Colonial IC: 109 => 98
- $ colonials recovered => + 130
- Investment in Byzantium => $90 which provides + 4 new ICs
- investment in BP => - $20
- Budget with 109 IC was $282.55
- Budget with 98 IC becomes $262.8

Byzantium's economic growth is limited to $2 per year.   :(    >:(

[The Rock Doctor]

I'm fine with that redistribution and look forward to the Byzantine invasion of West Australia.

[Jefgte]

I'm fine with that redistribution and look forward to the Byzantine invasion of West Australia.

... or Ethiopia.

[The Rock Doctor]

Or that, sure!

[TacCovert4]

I'm good with that.

And now, the rest of us get to draw up the Ethiopian fleet.......

[Kaiser Kirk]

I don't want to penalize an innocent error.

Sounds like the concession idea has merit.
As the week goes on we can finalize the 'Concession' or Enclave status.
Heck, probably need to make a special name for it.

Original game rules had no BP allowed outside the Homeland,
which means LP/AP/DP has to start in the Homeland and be moved
to the territory. That disrupted the Japanese plans.
If we're going to have extra holding, do we want to consider allowing a couple BP there?
Same cost as homeland or more.

Ethiopia would be a heavy lift.
Snip made that a tough NPC, like Rajasthan.
Byzantine has a strong presence in the Red Sea...but is not alone.

But there are weaker holdings near Byzantine territories.

Foxy actually tried a spy ship probe of one.
At the time I did not tell him the results, just the ship was lost.
It's sufficiently later to say that his 'old fishing boat with engine problems'
that was to allow boarding and being taken into the closed foreign harbor
...and that had a new turbo-electric steam plant and radios
...failed to pass for poor lost fisherman.
A combination of plausibility and bad rolls.