Parthian Ships 1928 +

[TacCovert4]

How will they match up against "HMS Courageous but with more HMS Courageous"?  I'm working on a ship design with Foxy's input.....and that's the direction he's going for a carrier escort capital ship.

No clue, I'd have to see it.
I was guessing he'd go fast and light, which is why I was looking at the B-65 and Dutch 1047.
The problem with HMS Courageous is even my existing 215mm-255mm ACs can kill it most of the time.

4 Barrels has a substantial FC penalty without aerial spotting, and even with, that's a low max ROF.
Now if you are far enough out, ROF declines so you can adjust. But that ship doesn't have a ton of deck armor either.

Overall, guessing fairly darn well, as they are nearly the same speed, but with twice the barrels and higher ROF, so they would punch many many holes in HMS Courageous armor before it got a any hits. They would both punch right through each other, so more holes the better.

The 'Heavy Armored Cruiser' designs would just dominate an HMS Courageous style ship, though they outweigh it.   I will probably post one of those 4 designs once I decide which is best suited for my needs.

But it might be a good reason to delay my making a decision.

I'm working on it.  I'm envisioning these not as Battlecruisers per se but as carrier escorts, with an emphasis on secondary/AA firepower.  With that in mind they'd probably be the primary command ship for a Carrier fleet as they're fast, plenty of room, and not suited to fully independent operations.

I'm going to work up a matching 'fully armored battlecruiser' which I see as being his primary new capital ship.  Likely something in line with the Amagi, maybe slightly downscaled to 8-9 guns in favor of more speed.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Thank you for the heads up.
I will have to wait on my decision.

I was expected he'd want to build carrier-escort capable ships, as he's very aeronautically minded. Understandably.

Foxy likes fast and hard hitting and asymmetric.

I was figuring either an Amagi type in 1924 or so, followed by a B-65,
or two sets of B-65s, one about 1924, one about 1929.

The Stormbringer class was roughly the same speed as his Kirishima BCs
and the Dahae were faster and better armed. I rather expected they would counter any further Kirishima or Amagi type vessel. 

Seeing what the IJN built in 1929 will matter on which gun I'll choose in 1935.
Luckily I have a range to choose from.

[Kaiser Kirk]

On the one hand, I need to wait for IJN Ships - no real hurry there.
If 1935 has to delay until after Thanksgiving that won't be to disruptive.

On the other hand...  I have the Q R S and T versions of the Dahae.

The Q overlaps the Zambag, and makes many of the same comprimised of the original Dahae.

The R and S versions can take on capital ship guns and are 31 knots, but have only the 16knot
cruise speed and 8000nm, which is not what I want for these vessels. The Deck armor over magazines
was good, but I really wanted a little bit more for overall average.
However, for these 'Heavy Armor Cruisers' a 30knot speed is likely acceptable, the 333L43 gun has pretty good deck penetration.

The "T" is the same as the "S" with some exceptions
-1 knot speed
+10mm belt armor
+15mm citadel deck
+50mm Conning tower.
+2 knot cruise speed
+1400nm range

Which seems a reasonable trade off to me.

Still, the final vessel is 10,000t more than a Zemaka III, and 6000 more than Zambag.

Dahae "T", Parthian Heavy Armored Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
   29,000 t light; 30,692 t standard; 34,610 t normal; 37,745 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (623.36 ft / 616.80 ft) x 98.43 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (31.17 / 33.62 ft)
   (190.00 m / 188.00 m) x 30.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m)  x (9.50 / 10.25 m)

Armament:
      8 - 13.11" / 333 mm 43.0 cal guns - 1,333.80lbs / 605.00kg shells, 130 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 1.72lbs / 0.78kg shells, 500 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 double raised mounts
      32 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 12,115 lbs / 5,495 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   400.92 ft / 122.20 m   13.58 ft / 4.14 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   215.85 ft / 65.79 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.24" / 57 mm   400.92 ft / 122.20 m   35.56 ft / 10.84 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.35" / 9 mm   422.70 ft / 128.84 m   24.61 ft / 7.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.4" / 390 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      2.56" / 65 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.31" / 8 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 5.17" / 131 mm
   Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm  Quarter deck: 4.33" / 110 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14.17" / 360 mm, Aft 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,088 shp / 104,506 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,398nm at 18.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,053 tons

Complement:
   1,268 - 1,649

Cost:
   £12.683 million / $50.732 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,192 tons, 6.3 %
      - Guns: 2,192 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 10,727 tons, 31.0 %
      - Belts: 3,162 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,184 tons, 3.4 %
      - Bulges: 136 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 1,906 tons, 5.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,978 tons, 11.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 360 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,980 tons, 11.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,273 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,611 tons, 16.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 827 tons, 2.4 %
      - Hull below water: 120 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 130 tons
      - Hull above water: 82 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 165 tons
      - Above deck: 330 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57,419 lbs / 26,045 Kg = 51.0 x 13.1 " / 333 mm shells or 10.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.582 / 0.588
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.17 ft / 9.50 m,  30.84 ft / 9.40 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  30.84 ft / 9.40 m,  30.84 ft / 9.40 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  23.29 ft / 7.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      26.56 ft / 8.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,755 Square feet or 4,158 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 908 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Named for the Dahae Confederation, of which the Parni tribe was a member.
These are improved versions of the prior Heavy Armored Cruisers
and conceptually would oppose the Byzantine Battlecruisers
or the theoretical IJN ships I expect exist out there.

Guns
The 333L43 is featured
                                                    37
                                              130
Guns For/Aft are tiered 333

Armor

Eff Horiz @ WL:
Belt + 1/2 TDS + 1/2 Mag + Slope

Magazines : 387 + slope
Machinery : 346 + slope

Eff Vert :
Magazines : 200mm
Machinery : 110mm

Horizontal
Main belt is outslope is -15degrees.
Belt from 2m to -2m (4.0), sloped 15% outward.
4.0/cos (15) = 4.1411 = 4.14

57mm TDS rises behind belt to seal to armor deck,
Forming 57mm splinter armor behind belt.

Magazine Box behind TDS

Deck Armor :
3812t   -   40/ 125/ 110m deck
163t  - 75mm box over magazines
3,975t Needed

Modeled as 40/131.2/110 : 3,978t

Top of magazine box is thickened deck plates.

Torpedo Def
TDS : Total 5.5m deep, 57mm STS
Exterior Bulge for Standoff Distance : -2m to -9.5
Bulge 1m deep
TDS set 4.5m inside of hull
1.5 liquid, 1.5 void, 19mm STS, 1.5 liquid, twinned 19mm STS platees
Total depth 5m


Misc Wt :
Reserve
170t

AD
220t  - FC 1930
25t - Searchlight Tower (NF)
25t - LR Radio
25t - Hulesmeyer
25t - Air Search Radar
10 - dedicated AC SR radio
0t - SR Radio

OD
5t - Paravanes
150t - 4x Fighter & 2 x Scout (4/2 normal) Floatplanes
10t - 2x Gunpowder Cat on stern


HAW
26t - CO2 Air Compressor AC
26t - Enhanced Fire Suppression
30t - Hanger in Stern

HBW
26t - Enhanced Pumps
12t - 1+9+2 - Double wall tank (1) + AVGAS (5) + munitions (2)
2t : Enhanced fire suppression for AC supplies
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones

Aux :
65.1t : (42x1.55) Aux Diesel-Electric 1005kw Gen
8nm of fuel is Diesel. This is 4tons, or ~13440gal.


Decks
 8.5 - Forecastle
 7.0 - Weather
 4.5 - Battery
 2.0 - Main Armor Deck, top TDS, Top Main Belt
-0.5 - Deck
        - 2.0 Bottom Main Belt.
- 3.0 - Deck
- 7.0 - Engineering
-8.66  - Double Bottom

[Jefgte]

29000t, 8x333, armour 320, speed 30kts,
I class it in the fast battleships. It is an equivalent of the Byzantine Eupatoria class.

[Kaiser Kirk]

29000t, 8x333, armour 320, speed 30kts,
I class it in the fast battleships. It is an equivalent of the Byzantine Eupatoria class.

Parthia doesn't have fast battleships,
we have Armored Cruisers that have gotten larger than expected.


edit : I have noticed the original Dahae class has a resemblance to the French Dunkerque, which some have called a fast battleship, others a battlecruiser, but in Parthia it would apparently be 'a heavy armored cruiser'....

[Kaiser Kirk]

For Comparison, the "S" version of the same ship,
with 31 knot speed, but less armor & range.

Dahae "S", Parthian Heavy Armored Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
   28,770 t light; 30,430 t standard; 32,960 t normal; 34,984 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (623.36 ft / 616.80 ft) x 95.14 ft (Bulges 101.71 ft) x (31.17 / 32.79 ft)
   (190.00 m / 188.00 m) x 29.00 m (Bulges 31.00 m)  x (9.50 / 10.00 m)

Armament:
      8 - 13.11" / 333 mm 43.0 cal guns - 1,333.80lbs / 605.00kg shells, 130 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 1.72lbs / 0.78kg shells, 500 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     6 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 double raised mounts
      32 - 0.91" / 23.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 12,115 lbs / 5,495 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.2" / 310 mm   400.92 ft / 122.20 m   13.58 ft / 4.14 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   215.85 ft / 65.79 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.24" / 57 mm   400.92 ft / 122.20 m   35.56 ft / 10.84 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 68.90 ft / 21.00 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.35" / 9 mm   422.70 ft / 128.84 m   24.61 ft / 7.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.4" / 390 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      2.56" / 65 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.31" / 8 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 4.58" / 116 mm
   Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm  Quarter deck: 4.33" / 110 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.60" / 320 mm, Aft 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 154,992 shp / 115,624 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 8,088nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,554 tons

Complement:
   1,223 - 1,590

Cost:
   £12.944 million / $51.776 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,192 tons, 6.7 %
      - Guns: 2,192 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 10,090 tons, 30.6 %
      - Belts: 3,056 tons, 9.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,184 tons, 3.6 %
      - Bulges: 136 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 1,914 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,486 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 314 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 4,403 tons, 13.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,217 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,190 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 867 tons, 2.6 %
      - Hull below water: 120 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 170 tons
      - Hull above water: 82 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 165 tons
      - Above deck: 330 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50,315 lbs / 22,822 Kg = 44.7 x 13.1 " / 333 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 18.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.590 / 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.17 ft / 9.50 m,  31.17 ft / 9.50 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  31.17 ft / 9.50 m,  31.17 ft / 9.50 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  23.29 ft / 7.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      28.32 ft / 8.63 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 194.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,593 Square feet or 4,050 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

2,770 tons, or 10% heavier than the Dahae class,
the "S" is 2 knots faster, with better deck and belt armor.

Named for the Dahae Confederation, of which the Parni tribe was a member.
These are improved versions of the prior Heavy Armored Cruisers
and conceptually would oppose the Byzantine Battlecruisers
or the theoretical IJN ships I expect exist out there.

Guns
The 333L43 is featured
                                                    37
                                              130
Guns For/Aft are tiered 333

Armor

Eff Horiz @ WL:
Magazines : 376 + slope
Machinery : 339 + slope

Eff Vert :
Magazines : 148mm
Machinery : 110mm

Horizontal
Main belt is outslope is -15degrees.
Belt from 2m to -2m (4.0), sloped 15% outward.
4.0/cos (15) = 4.1411 = 4.14

57mm TDS rises behind belt to seal to armor deck,
Forming 57mm splinter armor behind belt.

Magazine Box behind TDS

Deck Armor :
40/ 110/ 110m deck : 3,323
75mm box over magazines : 162t
3,485t Needed

Modeled as 40/116.3/110 : 3,486t

Top of magazine box is thickened deck plates.

Torpedo Def
TDS : Total 5.5m deep, 57mm STS
Exterior Bulge for Standoff Distance : -2m to -9.5
Bulge 1m deep
TDS set 4.5m inside of hull
1.5 liquid, 1.5 void, 19mm STS, 1.5 liquid, twinned 19mm STS platees
Total depth 5m


Misc Wt :
Reserve
170t

AD
220t  - FC 1930
25t - Searchlight Tower (NF)
25t - LR Radio
25t - Hulesmeyer
25t - Air Search Radar
10 - dedicated AC SR radio
0t - SR Radio

OD
5t - Paravanes
150t - 4x Fighter & 2 x Scout (4/2 normal) Floatplanes
10t - 2x Gunpowder Cat on stern


HAW
26t - CO2 Air Compressor AC
26t - Enhanced Fire Suppression
30t - Hanger in Stern

HBW
26t - Enhanced Pumps
12t - 1+9+2 - Double wall tank (1) + AVGAS (5) + munitions (2)
2t : Enhanced fire suppression for AC supplies
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones

Aux :
65.1t : (42x1.55) Aux Diesel-Electric 1005kw Gen
8nm of fuel is Diesel. This is 4tons, or ~13440gal.


Decks
 8.5 - Forecastle
 7.0 - Weather
 4.5 - Battery
 2.0 - Main Armor Deck, top TDS, Top Main Belt
-0.5 - Deck
        - 2.0 Bottom Main Belt.
- 3.0 - Deck
- 7.0 - Engineering
-8.66  - Double Bottom

[Kaiser Kirk]

I don't know if I will build these.
I was wondering what sacrifices I'd need to make to the existing design to field 16 guns.
Because I really don't think I can manage 20... anyhow the ship winds up at my current minimum speed. So...maybe. Depending on what the IJN's been up to, I may want a ship that can mutilate lightly armored combatants at range with ~96 x 165mm / min.

Currently the Bakhtiari in production are 4m longer, 3T4 , +1 knot, with armor
on the full length 65% raft body. The aircraft are all in the stern. All based on USS Cleveland tweaked wider.

This is 4T4 on 4m less, the idea of fitting 4 x 165mm turrets on 170m is something I could see being challenged. Okey dokey.

I normally point out that speed and hull form, and the need to fit machinery spaces, not to mention width for the turrets with narrow BCs are all a factor. In this case the ship is slower and newer than the last, and esp. relative to USS Cleveland.

In this case I'll also observe that on the same 170m length, HMS Erin fit 5x 13.5" turrets. So 4x 165mm should be doable, even with the two 115mm superimposed.

Bakhtiari, Parthia Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
    10,000 t light; 10,773 t standard; 12,100 t normal; 13,162 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (568.64 ft / 561.02 ft) x 72.18 ft x (21.00 / 22.35 ft)
    (173.32 m / 171.00 m) x 22.00 m  x (6.40 / 6.81 m)

Armament:
      16 - 6.50" / 165 mm 47.0 cal guns - 176.37lbs / 80.00kg shells, 220 per gun
      Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
      4 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 4.53" / 115 mm 47.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 360 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
      4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      2 x 2-gun mounts layout not set
        2 double raised mounts
      32 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 80.0 cal guns - 0.95lbs / 0.43kg shells, 3,160 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
      16 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
        16 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,514 lbs / 1,594 kg

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    4.72" / 120 mm    308.56 ft / 94.05 m    11.55 ft / 3.52 m
    Ends:    Unarmoured
      Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
      Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)

  - Hull void:
        0.00" / 0 mm      0.00 ft / 0.00 m    0.00 ft / 0.00 m

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    5.91" / 150 mm    2.17" / 55 mm        3.54" / 90 mm
    2nd:    1.18" / 30 mm    0.98" / 25 mm        0.98" / 25 mm
    3rd:    0.31" / 8 mm          -                  -

  - Armoured deck - single deck:
    For and Aft decks: 2.23" / 57 mm
    Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

  - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70,806 shp / 52,821 Kw = 30.00 kts
    Range 8,000nm at 16.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 2,389 tons

Complement:
    576 - 749

Cost:
    £4.696 million / $18.785 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 877 tons, 7.2 %
      - Guns: 877 tons, 7.2 %
    Armour: 2,376 tons, 19.6 %
      - Belts: 736 tons, 6.1 %
      - Armament: 491 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,082 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.6 %
    Machinery: 2,012 tons, 16.6 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,252 tons, 35.1 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,100 tons, 17.4 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 484 tons, 4.0 %
      - Hull below water: 56 tons
      - Hull void weights: 85 tons
      - Hull above water: 30 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 115 tons
      - Above deck: 198 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      17,312 lbs / 7,853 Kg = 126.3 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
    Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
    Roll period: 15.9 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.498 / 0.509
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7.77 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 25.72 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    20.00 %,  26.57 ft / 8.10 m,  24.11 ft / 7.35 m
      - Forward deck:    27.50 %,  24.11 ft / 7.35 m,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Aft deck:    27.50 %,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Quarter deck:    25.00 %,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m,  21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Average freeboard:        22.68 ft / 6.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.1 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 203.1 %
    Waterplane Area: 27,577 Square feet or 2,562 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 561 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.83
        - Longitudinal: 1.76
        - Overall: 0.90
    Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
    Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room
    Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
    Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

A 1-knot slower , 1 turret more version.
A couple meters shorter, with citadel armor restricted to less than
the raft body area - so subject to sinking by lots and lots of holes
in the ends.



Armor

Belt
1.6 to -1.8m (3m)
Outsloped 15deg

3.4/cos(15) = 3.5199 =3.52


Deck armor
97t  50mm  magazine box
984t  35/50/50mm deck
------
1081t needed

1082t  paid


Protection

Magazine box forms thickened belt / deck plates

Horizontal @ Waterline
Magazine : 170 inclined
Machinery : 120 inclined

Vertical :
Magazine : 100mm
Machinery : 50mm



misc
Reserve
85t


AD
88t FC
25t LR radio
0t SR Radio
10t  RDF/Jammer
25t Searchlight tower (NF)
25t Hulesmeyer
25t Air Search Radar

OD
5t paravanes
100t 4x floatplanes
10t - 2x Catapults on stern

HAW
20t - hanger in stern
10t Extra CO2 Air conditioning

HBW
10t Extra pumps
15t Hydrophones
31t Aux Diesel Generator


Decks
6.6    Weather Deck
4.10  Battery Deck
1.60  Main Armored Deck
-0.90 1st Platform deck
-4.60  Engineering
-5.60  Double Bottom
-6.66  Keel

[Kaiser Kirk]

Tinkering with the Manzikert design, I was able to trade 'good' seakeeping and 10mm of belt armor
for +1 knot. I also increased the beam slightly, lowering the BC, which worked out quite fine.

Manzikert VII, Parthia Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
   10,000 t light; 10,720 t standard; 12,064 t normal; 13,140 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (545.40 ft / 538.06 ft) x 73.00 ft x (21.85 / 23.27 ft)
   (166.24 m / 164.00 m) x 22.25 m  x (6.66 / 7.09 m)

Armament:
      8 - 8.46" / 215 mm 47.0 cal guns - 385.81lbs / 175.00kg shells, 173 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
     2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.53" / 115 mm 47.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 358 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      32 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 80.0 cal guns - 0.95lbs / 0.43kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     16 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,778 lbs / 1,714 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.53" / 115 mm   349.74 ft / 106.60 m   10.20 ft / 3.11 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -15.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.48" / 190 mm   2.17" / 55 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.26" / 57 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.12" / 130 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 81,993 shp / 61,167 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 8,096nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,420 tons

Complement:
   575 - 748

Cost:
   £5.037 million / $20.147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 938 tons, 7.8 %
      - Guns: 938 tons, 7.8 %
   Armour: 2,196 tons, 18.2 %
      - Belts: 687 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armament: 385 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,067 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,329 tons, 19.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,071 tons, 33.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,065 tons, 17.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 465 tons, 3.9 %
      - Hull below water: 66 tons
      - Hull void weights: 60 tons
      - Hull above water: 30 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 115 tons
      - Above deck: 194 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,768 lbs / 6,698 Kg = 48.7 x 8.5 " / 215 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and small transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.492 / 0.503
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forward deck:   32.50 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Aft deck:   32.50 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.71 ft / 6.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,600 Square feet or 2,471 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 568 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.82
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Manzikert VII  Light Armored Cruiser
Named for Victories against Greco-Roman Forces.
* Indicates a Caeser or Emperor defeated

Manzikert*
Carrahae*
Fraaspa
Nisibis
Misiche
Barbalisso
Edessa*
Calliniicum*
Callinicum
Samarra*
Antioch*


Armor

Protection

Magazine Box forms thicker Belt/Deck plates

Horizontal @ waterline :
Magazines : 180 + incline
Machinery : 115 + incline

Vertical.
Magazines : 115
Machinery : 50

Belt Armor
115 mm, +65mm abreast magazines
Covers from 1.2m to -1.8m
Outsloped 15 degrees
3.00/cos(15) = 3.1058 = 3.11

Deck armor
  114t   65mm  magazine box
933t  35/50/50mm deck
------
1047t needeed

1047t paid


Misc

Reserve
60t

AD
94t - FC 1930
25t - LR radio
0t - SR Radio
25t - Hulesmeyer
25t - Air Search Radar
25t - Searchlight Tower (NF)

OD
5t paravanes
100t 4x floatplanes (2 fighter, 2 scout typically)
10t - 2x Catapults

HAW
20t - hanger in stern
10t - CO2 Compressor AC

HBW
10t - Ex Fire Ext
10t - Ex Pumps
15t - Hydrophones
31t - Auxiliary Diesel generator 1000kw
46nm of fuel is Diesel

Decks
+6.30  Weather Deck
+3.70    Battery Deck
+1.20  Armor Deck, main deck
        -1.8 bottom main belt
-1.30  1st Platform Deck
-4.80   Engineering
-5.81 Double Bottom
-6.66  Keel

[The Rock Doctor]

It's a nice design.  I've been wondering about something similar, but don't have any modern guns in that range.

[Kaiser Kirk]

It's a nice design.  I've been wondering about something similar, but don't have any modern guns in that range.

I find it humorous as I really wanted to keep to 165/180 and then 230 and 255.

But searching for a gun with the penetration characteristics I wanted for my 'Light Armored Cruiser' types led to the heavy shelled 215mm, so I developed it. But I never expected to fit it to my cruiser series, just turned out I could...with minor compromises in speed or protection.

[Kaiser Kirk]

So I have tried to ensure the various ships actually built have been migrated to my encyclopedia.

That includes the refurbished Tiamats, now 10x 390mm , the Marban ASW sloops, the Mercy ships, tender barges, and oilers.

There are a number of ships not there yet as they are not completed yet -
The Arwand class Battleships, the Basuc and Wasendag Kamen carriers, the Bahktiari 165mm and Manzikert 215mm cruisers- first series. The 1935 second series I'll have to find room to laydown.
Two other new classes are laying down- the aux patrol sloops series 3, and the 'Bountiful Sea' Cargo-liner.

I did notice I was building the two cruiser classes in the wrong length docks, so moved them to the right length. I also changed my 1935 plans to expand a bunch of my cruiser docks, as if these new cruiser classes don't fit them...they need to be longer.

[The Rock Doctor]

I tend to post designs once construction begins, so I'm caught up there.

On the other hand, I'm a year or two behind on refits and refurbishment postings to the encyclopedia...

[Kaiser Kirk]

Frequently I've done that, but what I really needed is the current ships in service and where they are at.
Folks should be able to ask...what's are these 'Marban' sloops, there's 4 with each Parthian fleet...and they would not have been able to find that answer. Or that the Tiamats got rebuilt...to what ?

But now I've rebuilt all my old battlewagons...soon I have to start updating the newer ones.. argh.

[The Rock Doctor]

If you stop building new ships, you won't have to update them.

[Kaiser Kirk]

If you stop building new ships, you won't have to update them.

It's the old ones that need rebuilding to stay viable.
If I stop building new ones, then all my ships will be old ones that need rebuilding.

The real problem is technology.
If we had just frozen it at @1920ish levels for internal combustion engines/power systems,
then torpedoes, submarines and planes would have stopped advancing as threats.

Can you imagine proximity-fused, radar-aimed 5"/38 batteries against Sopwith Cuckoos?