Aztec Ship Designs 1925-1928

TacCovert4 · January 29, 2023, 08:33:25 AM

1924 closes out with the commissioning of the Monarch Mk2 pair of ships. So naturally there is an absolute need to have a battleship class in production. However, with many other pressing needs, there are a number of other things that are needed, and limited resources. While 2 of these could be laid down, it would max out capacity, and a need to make them lighter does exist:

Sublimis, Aztec Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
   32,188 t light; 34,133 t standard; 37,240 t normal; 39,725 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (642.64 ft / 636.48 ft) x 111.55 ft x (29.51 / 31.16 ft)
   (195.88 m / 194.00 m) x 34.00 m x (9.00 / 9.50 m)

Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,969.41lbs / 893.31kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,997 lbs / 7,710 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   420.11 ft / 128.05 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   108.27 ft / 33.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     108.10 ft / 32.95 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.36" / 60 mm   420.11 ft / 128.05 m   28.08 ft / 8.56 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 91.86 ft / 28.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   8.66" / 220 mm      14.2" / 360 mm
   2nd:   3.15" / 80 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   4th:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm

- Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 5.51" / 140 mm
   Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 3.15" / 80 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 66,977 shp / 49,965 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,592 tons

Complement:
   1,339 - 1,742

Cost:
   £9.909 million / $39.634 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,434 tons, 9.2 %
     - Guns: 3,434 tons, 9.2 %
   Armour: 13,344 tons, 35.8 %
     - Belts: 3,807 tons, 10.2 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,031 tons, 2.8 %
     - Armament: 3,485 tons, 9.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 4,736 tons, 12.7 %
     - Conning Towers: 284 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,175 tons, 5.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,546 tons, 33.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,052 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 689 tons, 1.9 %
     - Hull above water: 272 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 120 tons
     - Above deck: 297 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57,176 lbs / 25,934 Kg = 29.3 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 11.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.622 / 0.629
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.23 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.90 ft / 5.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 53,002 Square feet or 4,924 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,005 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Quarterdeck: 80mm monolithic on top of End Belt. End Belt covers QD/Steering area
Main Deck: 110mm main deck, 30mm Splinter Deck

Main Belt: Upper half uniform 360mm. Lower half tapers from 360mm to 280mm on bottom edge

344t - 1918 FC
50t - 2 x 1912 NF Devices
25t - LR Radio
120t - 4 x Armed Floatplane Spotter, provision for 4 x Catapult
150t - Admiral's Quarters and Flag Bridge

TacCovert4 · January 29, 2023, 08:54:45 AM

Alternate design. Slightly less armor, slightly fewer accoutrements. The important part for this ship is that she costs the same per HY as the extant Monarch-class.

Sublimis, Aztec Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
   31,415 t light; 33,344 t standard; 36,415 t normal; 38,872 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (642.64 ft / 636.48 ft) x 111.55 ft x (28.88 / 30.50 ft)
   (195.88 m / 194.00 m) x 34.00 m x (8.80 / 9.30 m)

Armament:
8 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,969.41lbs / 893.31kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
20 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16,997 lbs / 7,710 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.1" / 332 mm   420.11 ft / 128.05 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   2.99" / 76 mm   108.27 ft / 33.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     108.10 ft / 32.95 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   420.11 ft / 128.05 m   27.89 ft / 8.50 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 91.86 ft / 28.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   8.66" / 220 mm      13.8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   2.99" / 76 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.99" / 76 mm
   4th:     -        -         0.79" / 20 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 5.51" / 140 mm
   Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.99" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 66,153 shp / 49,350 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,527 tons

Complement:
   1,317 - 1,713

Cost:
   £9.808 million / $39.231 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,434 tons, 9.4 %
     - Guns: 3,434 tons, 9.4 %
   Armour: 12,986 tons, 35.7 %
     - Belts: 3,723 tons, 10.2 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 853 tons, 2.3 %
     - Armament: 3,411 tons, 9.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 4,719 tons, 13.0 %
     - Conning Towers: 280 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,148 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,453 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,000 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 394 tons, 1.1 %
     - Hull above water: 172 tons
     - Above deck: 222 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55,745 lbs / 25,285 Kg = 28.5 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 10.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 7.3 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.622 / 0.628
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.23 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.90 ft / 5.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,981 Square feet or 4,922 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,004 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Quarterdeck: Monolithic on top of End Belt. End Belt covers QD/Steering area
Main Deck: 110mm main deck, 30mm Splinter Deck

Main Belt: Upper half uniform 350mm. Lower half tapers from 350mm to 280mm on bottom edge

344t - 1918 FC
25t - NF Devices
25t - LR Radio

The Rock Doctor · January 29, 2023, 09:05:21 AM

Both are sturdy and capable - more or less the equivalent of my Encke class other than the speed difference but on much less tonnage.

I'd say spend the extra 1,000 t for the perks. The planes come cheap compared to sticking them on a new cruiser or carrier tasked with accompanying these two.

TacCovert4 · January 29, 2023, 09:17:15 AM

You're probably right. I have also started putting aircraft on the larger frigate classes as well. By the time the Lake-Class is completed, they'll have 2 x Catapult and 2 x armed floatplane aboard. The thought generally is that the surface units of the fleet should be able to provide their own spotting, as well as some limited CAP support (at least until carrier fighters get good enough that they can smack floatplanes around).

TacCovert4 · January 29, 2023, 10:55:47 AM

The worst thing for me is that I have 3 BBs with 280mm guns. And basically, I can't upgrade them enough for it to matter. I guess I could turn them into slow carriers possibly, but as a Battleship they're where they are, and that's not something that can be changed.

TacCovert4 · January 29, 2023, 12:00:18 PM

Given the lack of effectiveness of torpedoes, and the sort of horror that hit my DDs during the war, I'm leaning more towards my 'DD Leader' being something with as much survivability as possible. Only thing that helps with survival from general hits is tonnage, and they're as big as they can get. But I can give it as much firepower as possible, and protect it against HE and splinters from anything that's likely to get thrown at them, hence the 30mm splinter protection all over the gun mounts, magazines, and bridge.

I-Class, Aztec Destroyer laid down 1925

Displacement:
   2,000 t light; 2,097 t standard; 2,346 t normal; 2,545 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.87 ft / 393.70 ft) x 36.09 ft x (10.51 / 11.21 ft)
   (122.18 m / 120.00 m) x 11.00 m x (3.20 / 3.42 m)

Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
6 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 431 lbs / 196 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.18" / 30 mm
   2nd:     -        -         1.18" / 30 mm

- Box over magazines:
   1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.18" / 30 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 43,617 shp / 32,538 Kw = 32.25 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 448 tons

Complement:
   168 - 219

Cost:
   £0.917 million / $3.667 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 104 tons, 4.4 %
     - Guns: 104 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 50 tons, 2.1 %
     - Armament: 26 tons, 1.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 19 tons, 0.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,173 tons, 50.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 646 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 346 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 27 tons, 1.2 %
     - Hull above water: 6 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 16 tons
     - Above deck: 5 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     611 lbs / 277 Kg = 9.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.559
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      16.04 ft / 4.89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,916 Square feet or 921 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 183 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 0.56
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

11t - 1918 FC
16t - 1x4x21in HW TT Centerline

The Rock Doctor · January 29, 2023, 12:02:14 PM

My early dreadnoughts are similarly limited, especially with the main battery layout.

The Implacables are fast and well-protected for their size. Undergunned, sure. But you could still get lots of use out of them in trade defence, training, etc. Worse comes to worse, they can stand in a line of battle for a while and absorb punishment.

Or upgun to five single 400mm guns. Won't score a lot of hits but every hit will really be felt.

TacCovert4 · February 01, 2023, 09:05:20 AM

More lessons learned from the war, the vulnerability of DDs. While the screen itself is getting strengthened with more 180mm corvettes and frigates, and the new 240mm Razees are being put into service, a 'DD Leader' ship gets revisited. A ship that is designed to operate directly with Destroyers, provide them with fire support, leadership, and scouting, and function as flagship for the Rear Admiral of Destroyers for the fleet, a relatively small command post that typically consists of the Admiral and a staff of 2, with the ship's own crew filling in the other roles and the main fleet admiralty handling the larger functions.

DD-Leader-X, Aztec Corvette laid down 1926

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,262 t standard; 6,912 t normal; 7,432 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (489.32 ft / 482.28 ft) x 59.06 ft x (16.40 / 17.35 ft)
   (149.14 m / 147.00 m) x 18.00 m x (5.00 / 5.29 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.87lbs / 0.40kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 862 lbs / 391 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   327.95 ft / 99.96 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   154.30 ft / 47.03 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   3rd:     -        -         0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 58,942 shp / 43,971 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,170 tons

Complement:
   378 - 492

Cost:
   £1.955 million / $7.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 209 tons, 3.0 %
     - Guns: 209 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 1,346 tons, 19.5 %
     - Belts: 534 tons, 7.7 %
     - Armament: 113 tons, 1.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 668 tons, 9.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,887 tons, 27.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,376 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 912 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 183 tons, 2.6 %
     - Hull above water: 59 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 54 tons
     - Above deck: 70 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,748 lbs / 3,514 Kg = 115.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.518 / 0.526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.17 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.90 ft / 6.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,289 Square feet or 1,792 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
21t - 1918 FC
24t - 2 x 3 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
30t - 1 x Catapult and Armed Floatplane Aft
58t - Accommodations and space for Rear Admiral-Destroyers

Kaiser Kirk · February 01, 2023, 09:32:08 AM

Interesting.
I'm not keen on 130mm for cruiser vessels, though duplicating your DD main makes sense.
Thanks to the Byzantines, I'm having to upgun from 165mm to 180 in that size range.

I think the 150m length and shallow 5m draft may be costing you a fair bit.
My 1921 Moulek is the same speed, 45 vs 50 deck, 90 @3.5m vs 80 @3 m for belt
and nearly twice the armament weight, same misc wt and more range.
You do have superior seakeeping, so some of the weight is going into freeboard.

TacCovert4 · February 01, 2023, 10:46:19 AM

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on February 01, 2023, 09:32:08 AM
Interesting.
I'm not keen on 130mm for cruiser vessels, though duplicating your DD main makes sense.
Thanks to the Byzantines, I'm having to upgun from 165mm to 180 in that size range.

I think the 150m length and shallow 5m draft may be costing you a fair bit.
My 1921 Moulek is the same speed, 45 vs 50 deck, 90 @3.5m vs 80 @3 m for belt
and nearly twice the armament weight, same misc wt and more range.
You do have superior seakeeping, so some of the weight is going into freeboard.

Yeah, I'm batting ideas around. I'm currently building an 8 x 180mm cruiser in the same tonnage, though it's less protected, less multi-spectrum, and I'm not really super happy with it.

The draft is relatively shallow, otoh it helps with stability and seakeeping, so it is what it is.

I did some adjustments, and I can bring the belt up to 90 by reducing the end belts to 40, as well as cutting the floatplane. Though as this is a scout for the DDs and the C3I nexus for a DD squadron, I'm inclined to keep the floatplane as being a useful asset.

80mm, based on Parallel Ballistics, is showing to be proof against the 130/50 this ship carries at 5km
Against a hypothetical 120/55 with a heavy shell, it's still proof down to 5.5km.
The 180s a lot of us run, will punch her out to 14km. Of course to be 180 proof to a the sort of closer ranges this type of ship would operate in, she'd need to have 110mm of belt.

So for a cruiser cruiser, yes, 80s kind of light. For a DD Leader, she's got a ton more durability. I'm going to fiddle a bit more with her, see what I can work out.

TacCovert4 · February 01, 2023, 10:58:33 AM

By removing some of the additional kit, I'm able to take the belt on up to 100mm, making it proof against anything smaller than 180mm guns at around 12km.

DD-Leader-X, Aztec Corvette laid down 1926

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,262 t standard; 6,912 t normal; 7,432 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (489.32 ft / 482.28 ft) x 59.06 ft x (16.40 / 17.35 ft)
   (149.14 m / 147.00 m) x 18.00 m x (5.00 / 5.29 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 862 lbs / 391 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   327.95 ft / 99.96 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   154.30 ft / 47.03 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   3rd:     -        -         0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 58,942 shp / 43,971 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,170 tons

Complement:
   378 - 492

Cost:
   £1.955 million / $7.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 209 tons, 3.0 %
     - Guns: 209 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 1,437 tons, 20.8 %
     - Belts: 639 tons, 9.3 %
     - Armament: 99 tons, 1.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 668 tons, 9.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,887 tons, 27.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,376 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 912 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 92 tons, 1.3 %
     - Hull below water: 5 tons
     - Hull above water: 11 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 16 tons
     - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,928 lbs / 3,596 Kg = 118.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.518 / 0.526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.17 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.90 ft / 6.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,289 Square feet or 1,792 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
21t - 1918 FC
16t - 2 x 2 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
5t - Basic Hydrophones

Kaiser Kirk · February 01, 2023, 12:23:59 PM

Stability is rough, as folks keep going for the 'slow and easy roll', by ramping up the trim,
which really hurts it.
I try hard for a stability of 1.10 in my ships, a couple of my cruisers slip below that,
but I'll up the beam/shallow the draft to get there.
Frankly haven't figured out how to incorporate that into SK4/5 properly....

In this case, your 130mm main guns won't be firing accurately at long ranges where slow and easy roll really should matter,
so that could be a savings.

If the OPFOR isn't cruisers - then why the 50mm deck armor?
Further, the Roman ships are at 140mm, and despite recent events I'd think that, rather than your 130, would be the design weapon.

Follow up question - if your requirements are good with an 80mm belt , and possibly a thinner deck,
you may find a smaller vessel is possible. Probably not by much...but.

TacCovert4 · February 01, 2023, 08:06:47 PM

Good points all around. I could easily get a bit more stability, though the slow roll also tends to match up with better seakeeping. So that is a bit of a concurrent factor. I'll try it with a 40mm deck instead of the 50mm, and see what I can get into the belt.

TacCovert4 · February 01, 2023, 10:49:14 PM

Thank you Kirk, for the suggestions. After fiddling with length, beam, draft, block, and some odds and ends, I've been able to do the following:

-Bring Belt and Mount Face armor to 100mm, and bring the end belts up to 60mm.
-Add .5m to main belt depth, to 3.5m. End belts don't get the full meter underwater, but end belts are also more splinter protection than penetration protection.
-Fully armor the AA suite, as this ship is likely to eat a lot of splinters, a splinter-protected AA suite adds survivability
-Upgrade the triple torpedo launchers to quad launchers
-Add basic hydrophones. A 6000t cruiser shouldn't be doing ASW, so it doesn't have depth charges. But hydrophones will allow it to provide early warning and assist its DDs in sub hunting.

Overall, she's a far nastier cruiser now.

DD-Leader-X, Aztec Corvette laid down 1926

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,263 t standard; 6,910 t normal; 7,427 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (491.58 ft / 485.07 ft) x 55.77 ft x (17.26 / 18.25 ft)
   (149.83 m / 147.85 m) x 17.00 m x (5.26 / 5.56 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
12 - 1.18" / 30.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.86lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 862 lbs / 391 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   329.86 ft / 100.54 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   155.22 ft / 47.31 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 1.06" / 27 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 58,030 shp / 43,290 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,165 tons

Complement:
   378 - 492

Cost:
   £1.941 million / $7.764 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 209 tons, 3.0 %
     - Guns: 209 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 1,455 tons, 21.1 %
     - Belts: 750 tons, 10.9 %
     - Armament: 155 tons, 2.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 519 tons, 7.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,858 tons, 26.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,283 tons, 33.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 909 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 196 tons, 2.8 %
     - Hull below water: 5 tons
     - Hull above water: 59 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 62 tons
     - Above deck: 70 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,601 lbs / 3,448 Kg = 113.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.518 / 0.526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Aft deck:   38.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.04 ft / 5.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,323 Square feet or 1,702 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 398 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

25t - LR Radio
25t - NF Devices
21t - 1918 FC
24t - 2 x 4 x 21in HW TT on sides aft
30t - 1 x Catapult and Armed Floatplane amidships
58t - Accommodations and space for Rear Admiral-Destroyers
5t - Hydrophones

TacCovert4 · February 01, 2023, 11:04:00 PM

I might wind up trimming some of the weight off to add on some ancillaries like additional firefighting equipment (as this ship is likely to get pelted with HE), etc.