Aztec Ship Designs 1921-1924

[TacCovert4]

Quite true.  Of course the RAN has primarily focused on its long-range flying boats and land planes, as it needs the scouting range and even the ferry range (there are occasional flights to the Outer Gates from Azteca proper, and routine flights between Providenciales and Martinique.  The Army has focused heavily on shorter ranged and lighter landplanes.  Though now there is some interest in potential landplanes flying from ships, though none of the research is ready for it. 

[Jefgte]

Posted during the design of Antalya

The aeronautical officers have requested a lengthening of the ships in order to be able to maneuver the SHORT 184 seaplanes more easily.
=> The hull has received an additional 10m module.
This made it possible to increase store volumes.
The class increase from 5200t to 5550t.

IMO, increase length & reduce draught

[Kaiser Kirk]

IMO, increase length & reduce draught

I believe my draft 1920.0 turn has the construction in 160m dock, so adding 10m to the existing design is simple to accommodate.

[TacCovert4]

IMO, increase length & reduce draught

I believe my draft 1920.0 turn has the construction in 160m dock, so adding 10m to the existing design is simple to accommodate.

I'll look into it.  But I'm not sure I will do that.   I definitely don't want an 8000t aviation ship.

[Kaiser Kirk]

what....you can't hear the voices whispering....8000? why stop there...9000 is right around the corner...

[Desertfox]

Meanwhile I'll start at 8,000t and keep removing stuff until I end up with a 4000t ship...

[Kaiser Kirk]

Meanwhile I'll start at 8,000t and keep removing stuff until I end up with a 4000t ship...

I've heard of this hull-lightening technique - you replace 20% of the hull plating with holes,
which are unsightly, so be sure to put them on the bottom out of view,
then...

[TacCovert4]

what....you can't hear the voices whispering....8000? why stop there...9000 is right around the corner...

If I'm going up 12m in length I might look at how to get her up to 27kts and prep it for future flight decks.

[TacCovert4]

HMS Zoraster, Aztec/Parthian Built Seaplane/EX Carrier laid down 1920

Displacement:
   7,992 t light; 8,268 t standard; 9,214 t normal; 9,971 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (523.58 ft / 518.37 ft) x 63.98 ft x (17.06 / 18.18 ft)
   (159.59 m / 158.00 m) x 19.50 m  x (5.20 / 5.54 m)

Armament:
      10 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.09lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      24 - 0.47" / 12.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 778 lbs / 353 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.57" / 40 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 52.49 ft / 16.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.10" / 28 mm            -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,741 shp / 34,123 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,703 tons

Complement:
   469 - 611

Cost:
   £1.290 million / $5.158 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 153 tons, 1.7 %
      - Guns: 153 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 1,046 tons, 11.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 353 tons, 3.8 %
      - Armament: 83 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 591 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,599 tons, 17.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,498 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,222 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,696 tons, 18.4 %
      - Hull below water: 770 tons
      - Hull above water: 770 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 80 tons
      - Above deck: 76 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,335 lbs / 9,678 Kg = 318.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.579
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      26.57 ft / 8.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 282.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,583 Square feet or 2,191 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 429 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.11
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

1540 - 14 x Twin Engine Seaplane
16t - 1918 FC
25t - LR Radio
10t - Additional SR Radio
25t - 1918 NF Devices
80t - 2 x Aft Crane

[TacCovert4]

Well, with enlarging the ship to the 8000t mark, I could choose between an 18 plane airgroup, or 27kts.  I choose 27kts and formalizing the flying off deck into the forecastle

[Kaiser Kirk]

See?
Tempting to increase it.... oh and I peeked, I was out of 160m docks, so I put it in a 190m.

now the Foxy card - compare the 8000 vs. the 6000, is the 33% increase "worth it" ?

Despite my bemoaning the mismatch between BP and my desired build plan,
the reality is limited budgets are a nice way of forcing us to make trade offs.
Much as I'd love to have a 34knot 16x 18" Battlecarrier, I rather doubt I will field one.
And trying to find a ship I can fit a wave motion gun in is proving difficult.

[TacCovert4]

See?
Tempting to increase it.... oh and I peeked, I was out of 160m docks, so I put it in a 190m.

now the Foxy card - compare the 8000 vs. the 6000, is the 33% increase "worth it" ?

Despite my bemoaning the mismatch between BP and my desired build plan,
the reality is limited budgets are a nice way of forcing us to make trade offs.
Much as I'd love to have a 34knot 16x 18" Battlecarrier, I rather doubt I will field one.
And trying to find a ship I can fit a wave motion gun in is proving difficult.

Looking at it from the standpoint of a future refit into a proper carrier......actually it's still not worth it.  When you math it out for an eventual refit as a carrier, it can still only hold 19 aircraft without MAJOR changes.

What I will probably do is take the 6000t one, swap Electric Drive for Geared Drive (which Parthia has in 1920 but Azteca doesn't) to save weight, and maybe even reduce tonnage further. 

[TacCovert4]

After really thinking about it, and the cost-benefit, the 6000t seaplane carrier is the winner for me.  It's still reasonably cheap, gets me into the aviation game and gets my pilots and crews some experience at sea.  But it's not overly expensive for what it does. 

I anticipate that the Sultanate will be purchasing at least one more carrier from foreign yards as the Sultanate is behind on carrier techs for now and has many pressing technological things as well.  Once the requisite carrier techs are researched, probably the 1922 tech, the Sultanate might be in a position where its already somewhat obsolete Implacable class would be eligible for conversion into our first full-up fleet carriers.

[Kaiser Kirk]

What I will probably do is take the 6000t one, swap Electric Drive for Geared Drive (which Parthia has in 1920 but Azteca doesn't) to save weight, and maybe even reduce tonnage further.

Actually Parthia does not have geared drive.
Recently reviewing my tech found I forgotten that field :(
It's in my draft turns now, I will catch up.

[Desertfox]

now the Foxy card - compare the 8000 vs. the 6000, is the 33% increase "worth it" ?

Stuff it into 4000t!!!

Despite my bemoaning the mismatch between BP and my desired build plan,
the reality is limited budgets are a nice way of forcing us to make trade offs.
Much as I'd love to have a 34knot 16x 18" Battlecarrier, I rather doubt I will field one.
And trying to find a ship I can fit a wave motion gun in is proving difficult.

That's what I like about Naval Treaties, especially ones that restrict overall tonnage rather than specific ship tonnage. Do you want 4 monsters or 8 colonial battleships? Despite the failure of the first attempt, I would like to try again in the future especially as our BPs grow and become less restrictive. I just think its more fun trying to figure out what to do with the remaining 26,000t in your capital ship budget, than designing that massive battlecarrier.