Norse Supply Ship Design Thread

Kaiser Kirk · November 07, 2021, 09:46:44 AM

Norse ships needed :

C) A 1917 fleet support ships around 8400tons 5-6000nm @ 12kts, 21kts max.

AA guns can be 75/50.
Torps 21".

The Rock Doctor · November 09, 2021, 05:18:22 PM

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   8,400 t light; 8,604 t standard; 9,205 t normal; 9,687 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (371.97 ft / 360.89 ft) x 72.18 ft x (19.03 / 19.87 ft)
   (113.38 m / 110.00 m) x 22.00 m x (5.80 / 6.06 m)

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.63lbs / 6.18kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 139 lbs / 63 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.01" / 51 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.01" / 51 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm        -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21,400 shp / 15,964 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,250nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,083 tons

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.759 million / $3.034 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 39 tons, 0.4 %
     - Guns: 39 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 27 tons, 0.3 %
     - Armament: 27 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 784 tons, 8.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,241 tons, 24.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 805 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,310 tons, 57.7 %
     - Hull below water: 2,500 tons
     - Hull above water: 2,500 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 270 tons
     - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,699 lbs / 5,760 Kg = 240.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.655
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
     - Forward deck:   40.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Aft deck:   20.00 %, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.15 ft / 5.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,955 Square feet or 1,854 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 401 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

5,000 MW for general support/provisions
The freeboard deck MW is for reserves, whatever
Above-deck MW for fire control, long-range wireless, etc.

Kaiser Kirk · November 10, 2021, 09:26:22 PM

I decided to try to do a 'walter thing' and fit the ship with a icebreaking bow, and a double hull- so scraping ice won't be such a titanic negative.
I accounted for the weight in the Armor section, even though it's not actual armor.

Highlighting the danger, I called it the "Lee" as in "Lee Shore" - a hazardous shoreline the wind blows you towards.
Highlighting the importance of freight, I called it a Knarr.

Knarr- Lee, Norse Fleet Supply Vessel laid down 1917

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,237 t standard; 8,612 t normal; 8,912 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (367.45 ft / 360.89 ft) x 65.62 ft (Bulges 72.18 ft) x (21.33 / 21.97 ft)
   (112.00 m / 110.00 m) x 20.00 m (Bulges 22.00 m) x (6.50 / 6.70 m)

Armament:
10 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     6 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 584 lbs / 265 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   126.28 ft / 38.49 m   42.65 ft / 13.00 m

- Hull Bulges:
      0.79" / 20 mm   234.58 ft / 71.50 m   21.33 ft / 6.50 m

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 10,459 shp / 7,803 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 5,800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 675 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   446 - 581

Cost:
   £0.665 million / $2.660 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 113 tons, 1.3 %
     - Guns: 113 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 381 tons, 4.4 %
     - Belts: 235 tons, 2.7 %
     - Bulges: 146 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 392 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,917 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 611 tons, 7.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,197 tons, 60.3 %
     - Hull below water: 3,000 tons
     - Bulge void weights: 80 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,480 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 600 tons
     - Above deck: 37 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,355 lbs / 5,604 Kg = 234.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
   Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.543 / 0.545
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      15.99 ft / 4.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,412 Square feet or 1,525 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 395 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.94
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Armour belts too tall for hull

Called Knarrs, after the ancient ship type,
the "Lee" class refers the risks of maritime travel and
being driven onto the savage coast of a "Lee Shore"

A ram bow is fitted and equipped for icebreaking.

Additional Structural Steel, recorded under Armor tab :

The "end" armor represents this icebreaking prow, with the 13m height being
from keel to prow, and the 3m width is 6m from the bow.

The vessel is fitted with an external blister (not armored, thickness represents hull steel for weight) as a double-hull to ward against leaks caused from brushing ice flows.

Armanent : 160t max
113t - Guns

Misc Wt.
80t - Resv

AD
12t - FC
25t - LR Radio

OD
600t Fleet Supply

HABW
80 - Climate control
1400t Fleet Supply

HBW
3000t Fleet Supply

Total : 5000 tons Fleet supply, support 50,000 tons.

Decks are 2.45m.
Raised forecastle and stern
4m - Weather Deck
1.55m - Main Deck
-0.9m 2nd Deck / Hold
-3.35m 1st Deck / Hold
-5.8m Engineering
6.5m Keel, double bottom.

Desertfox · November 11, 2021, 10:55:41 AM

Titanic, Norse Fleet Support laid down 1918

Displacement:
   8,367 t light; 8,568 t standard; 9,103 t normal; 9,531 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 59.00 ft x (22.50 / 23.39 ft)
   (121.92 m / 121.92 m) x 17.98 m x (6.86 / 7.13 m)

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 54.0 cal guns - 56.72lbs / 25.73kg shells, 170 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.63lbs / 6.18kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 168 lbs / 76 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm        -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 18,800 shp / 14,024 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 964 tons

Complement:
   465 - 605

Cost:
   £0.795 million / $3.179 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 34 tons, 0.4 %
     - Guns: 34 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.1 %
     - Armament: 8 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 678 tons, 7.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,947 tons, 21.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 736 tons, 8.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,700 tons, 62.6 %
     - Hull below water: 5,000 tons
     - Hull above water: 320 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 350 tons
     - Above deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,381 lbs / 5,616 Kg = 234.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.94
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 9.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   40.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Aft deck:   15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.64 ft / 4.46 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,884 Square feet or 1,569 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 371 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.59
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

5000t - 50,000t of fleet support
320t - 40t Extra Boats
150t - Torpedo Nets
100t - Hospital Accomodations
100t - Passenger Accomodations

The Rock Doctor · November 11, 2021, 11:22:09 AM

I reckon you've got far too many guns there, Kirk. The deck space is needed for hold hatches, loading equipment and all that jazz, not the firepower of a light cruiser.

Kaiser Kirk · November 11, 2021, 01:10:02 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on November 11, 2021, 11:22:09 AM
I reckon you've got far too many guns there, Kirk. The deck space is needed for hold hatches, loading equipment and all that jazz, not the firepower of a light cruiser.

but I like studding ships with guns, they are shiny and jewel like :)
Plus none of my post 1905 cruisers have armament that light... so it didn't seem like it to me

Ok, repositioned the guns.
Now most of them are in casements, with only 2 on the centerline.

Lost a tiny bit of Misc weight, gained some range

Knarr- Lee, Norse Fleet Supply Vessel laid down 1917
Knarr- Lee, Norse Fleet Supply Vessel laid down 1917

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,231 t standard; 8,618 t normal; 8,928 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (367.45 ft / 360.89 ft) x 65.62 ft (Bulges 72.18 ft) x (21.33 / 21.98 ft)
   (112.00 m / 110.00 m) x 20.00 m (Bulges 22.00 m) x (6.50 / 6.70 m)

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 584 lbs / 265 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   126.28 ft / 38.49 m   42.65 ft / 13.00 m

- Hull Bulges:
      0.79" / 20 mm   234.58 ft / 71.50 m   21.33 ft / 6.50 m

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 10,500 shp / 7,833 Kw = 18.02 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 696 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   446 - 581

Cost:
   £0.676 million / $2.705 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 125 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 125 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 381 tons, 4.4 %
     - Belts: 235 tons, 2.7 %
     - Bulges: 146 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 393 tons, 4.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,923 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 618 tons, 7.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,178 tons, 60.1 %
     - Hull below water: 3,000 tons
     - Bulge void weights: 60 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,480 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 600 tons
     - Above deck: 38 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,744 lbs / 5,781 Kg = 241.7 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.73
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.543 / 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      15.99 ft / 4.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,418 Square feet or 1,525 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 397 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Called Knarrs, after the ancient ship type,
the "Lee" class refers the risks of maritime travel and
being driven onto the savage coast of a "Lee Shore"

A ram bow is fitted and equipped for icebreaking.

Additional Structural Steel, recorded under Armor tab :

The "end" armor represents this icebreaking prow, with the 13m height being
from keel to prow, and the 3m width is 6m from the bow.

The vessel is fitted with an external blister (not armored, thickness represents hull steel for weight) as a double-hull to ward against leaks caused from brushing ice flows.

Armanent : 160t max
125t - Guns

Misc Wt.
60t - Resv

AD
13t - FC
25t - LR Radio

OD
600t Fleet Supply

HABW
80 - Climate control
1400t Fleet Supply

HBW
3000t Fleet Supply

Total : 5000 tons Fleet supply, support 50,000 tons.

Decks are 2.45m.
Raised forecastle and stern
4m - Weather Deck
1.55m - Main Deck
-0.9m 2nd Deck / Hold
-3.35m 1st Deck / Hold
-5.8m Engineering
6.5m Keel, double bottom.

The Rock Doctor · November 11, 2021, 01:15:51 PM

I'm still not feeling it, but okay.

Kaiser Kirk · November 11, 2021, 03:32:40 PM

gives it 6x120mm on the broadside, slightly better than new destroyers.

Of course it costs more, and is tremendously slower, and a big bulky target so it probably shouldn't go
destroyer hunting.

I could do 4 x 155 on the centerline if that's better :)