1920s future fleets

[Desertfox]

As for actual navy programs. Japan has a very solid amount of pre-dreads for all of its colonial needs, the 14" gunned capital ship program is close to wrapping up, the sub 1000t destroyer program is complete, and the auxiliaries are in good shape. The 1500t destroyers will start as soon as the guns are ready, followed by 6" light cruiser, and then 8" heavies (all delayed by guns). Other than the cruiser department Japan is in a pretty decent shape. Maybe its time to start spamming subs.

[TacCovert4]

Long term plans for the Sultanate are to phase out the GTB series.  They were an emergency program, and as gunnery and detection systems improve they will become increasingly less survivable in the modern combat environment.  They'll be replaced with 1500t DDs for the counter TB role and with Subs for the torpedo deploying role.

[Jefgte]

The many harbors in the colonies need large numbers of cruisers and destroyers.
I think our Battleships squadrons are sufficient for the time being.
In the next few years, I will be building 6000t cruisers, 1300t DDs and 700t torpedo boats.

I probably increase range & reserve weight (?)

[Kaiser Kirk]

Range is an interesting one.
Historically cruise speeds edged up with turbines as they were more efficient higher,
and then at least the Brits moved them up to 14 with an eye to limiting the ability of subs to 'get ahead'.

However, one thing I've found running the wargames is that range at max speed tends to be very limited.
You burn through that fuel tonnage rapidly.
So many more recent Parthian ships calculate a desired cruising range, and then so many hours of max speed
for combat on top of that.  The combination has really pushed my ranges up.

The higher ranges lead to greater max draught, and you do loose comp hull, so it's not free.
That was particularly evident in the pregame destroyers - Parthian ones had fairly long ranges
but were comparatively bulkier to hold the fuel and slower to compensate for the extra weight.
Which gave them somewhat better damage absorption.

As for Subs, they are interesting. They had spectacular successes at times.
Early WWI and WW2, they had some great hits....but not so much once
the defenders were alerted.

WW1, Despite the KM repeatedly trying to use lines of subs in the North Sea against
the Royal Navy, that really didn't work out. While there were quite a few
Royal Navy subs, and limited successes.

WW2, The Japanese overall had limited ASW - very few DDs with sonar, and not all with even hydrophones.
As a result they faired very poorly against the advanced American subs. Which odd since they
planned the IJN subs for an anti-surface warfare & scouting role, but the IJN subs
really were not very effective against American forces- handful of torpedo hits on major units.

Interwar, many navies tried to coordinate subs either as squadrons or with surface units.
The latter did not work well because of IFF issues, while the German wolfpacks were
surface radio, but any RF transmission has risks.

Commerce warfare is where they really shined, because you're hunting a slow
defenseless target on a predictable route, and even then, counter measures
became rather effective over time.
Plus, drawing in major neutral powers has to be seen as a negative.

Here, there is the twist that they are Waaaay to cheap compared to history,
and remain in service longer than historical.
However, I expect Navies will be a great deal more proactive in building
screening units. In part simply because the early success of torpedo craft
advocates for more small units for that war...which should make subs less
useful. But there's also the Hindsight factor - we all know the Subs can 'snipe'
the expensive units, so we'll guard for that...which may mean Subs
won't be nearly as effective.

[Jefgte]

Quote
The many harbors in the colonies need large numbers of cruisers and destroyers.
I think our Battleships squadrons are sufficient for the time being.
In the next few years, I will be building 6000t cruisers, 1300t DDs and 700t torpedo boats.

I probably increase range & reserve weight (?)

Finaly in the PLAN
C7 class - 5500t
D10 class - 1400t
T840 class - 840t

[The Rock Doctor]

Big decision points for me:

-Do I build more Czarownik-style battlecruisers, or do I complement them with a run of ~25 to 27 knot battleships?

-Do I build an intermediate cruiser type with guns in the 15 - 25 cm gun range?

-Do I build an experimental aircraft carrier, or wait to finish the full-length-deck tech?

-When I do finish that tech, what kind of carrier do I build?

[Kaiser Kirk]

I will be returning to my turn and trying to get HY1 1920 out this weekend.

I have similar decision points.
The last 4 battlewagons are finishing - 2 x 20knt, and 2x 26knt.
Given the build time, I want to be always working on some....and I'm leaning on 2x 20knot.  That will give a core of 8 big battlewagons with 132x365mm , making the 6 older ships available for secondary duties.

Conceptually,  I'd love a 'fast division' of 4x 26knot, I don't think it's happening. Budget realities mean the existing 2 are it for now.
Plus that with Parthia I deliberately decided to explore the Arms+Armor > speed aspect for capital ships.  Heck stylistically I don't even LIKE quads, and I have them.

"Armored Cruiser" I specifically developed the 255L47 gun as something that combines a high MV with the +10% shell weight so it should be able to hole any old cruiser/AC anywhere in combat ranges. The various designs are a little bigger than desired, but they have a good TDS and are well rounded. Jefgte's pocket BBs are a little problematic, but I think these new ACs would be competitive or take those ships.

For me the question is do I also build the 'Light Armored Cruiser' of 12-13,000 tons /32kts/ 180mm ....probably not for those budget reasons, AND that I will be starting the 1920 cruiser tech soon, so a cheaper variant may be doable later.

Carriers - I've just got the seaplane versions of the TBCs in service. Two TBCs were refurbished for Torpedo Boats.
I will likely convert 1 of those to be an experimental carrier.
Then I may use the Armored Cruiser or Light Armored Cruiser hull as a base to build a 'Scout Carrier' with a 'Fighter/Scout' role.
I may very well go with a hybrid cruiser-carrier at that time.
Mid-Late 20s, I'll probably build a Carrier Series. Hmm, wonder if an early 1900s AC might be convertible...

[Desertfox]

I just have one question but its a big one. Do I build the Nagatos to play with my current battleline (24kts) or do I build them as fast battleships (27kts)? And depending on than answer, do the Amagis get built as 27kt or 30kt battlecruisers? No Tosas under this plan yet.

[Kaiser Kirk]

That's always a debate point. When do I up the battleline speed - and should it be in increments or leaps?

I think the necessary question is what you expect to catch and kill , or run and avoid, at the two points for the Nagatos.
Does the 27 knots actually change what they can/can't fight ?  Is that worth the tradeoffs ?

Then, does a ship with the required arms/armor/speed fall within the tonnage you want to spend.
That answer is usually 'no' and forces re-evaluation.

As for the Amagis, 27knots is likely slightly slow anyhow. I'd put 28 as the minimum just to matchup with existing vessels.

-Kirk

[Desertfox]

It would be a lot easier to answer if I knew what the Chinese fleet looked like...

[Kaiser Kirk]

there ya go

[Kaiser Kirk]

At the time we got you started in Japan, I really expected China to be slotted next.
Then Guinness took it, and great- we have a balanced East. Perfect !

So the next major was the Aztec...and Guinness just didn't have the time,
which is a crying shame, especially as China has now missed out on the potential
for expansion.

I've toyed with the idea of proposing to give the Deccan/Laskmanivati holdings to China,
so that if we get a player, it will be a more viable T1, with a reason for a navy.

Anyhow, my schedule is...clearing...!?  So I can finish the Iberian and Norse, and go back to Parthia.

[TacCovert4]

That's always a debate point. When do I up the battleline speed - and should it be in increments or leaps?

I think the necessary question is what you expect to catch and kill , or run and avoid, at the two points for the Nagatos.
Does the 27 knots actually change what they can/can't fight ?  Is that worth the tradeoffs ?

Then, does a ship with the required arms/armor/speed fall within the tonnage you want to spend.
That answer is usually 'no' and forces re-evaluation.

As for the Amagis, 27knots is likely slightly slow anyhow. I'd put 28 as the minimum just to matchup with existing vessels.

-Kirk

That's been my question.  I've solved it for now by sticking to the initial leap I made when I built the Implacables.  The current builds for the battle line are 24kts, and I expect that the next class of battleship will also be 24kts.  But the Aztecs have a position where really high battleline speed isn't strictly necessary, and torpedo defense and turning circle are far more important. 

I always consider the speed in 'bands', with 21kts being in one band, 24kts being the next one up, 27, and then 30kts+.  I would say that for battle line units, a gradual speed increase is pointless, as it leaves your faster ships having to slow down to maintain formation.  I will probably start building fast battleships about the same time as I get around to building carriers, or otherwise merge the BB/BC types together. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

I always consider the speed in 'bands', with 21kts being in one band, 24kts being the next one up, 27, and then 30kts+.

That's a good gauge.  As far as I know, The Brits felt at least 2, more more 3 knots were needed to control range when accounting for variables like clean hulls, worn engines, etc.
I would like try to keep my lighter vessels one band up on heavier stuff, though consistent with Parthia's armor+guns>speed, they may be at the low range of each band.

[TacCovert4]

Mostly I've been keeping my BBs down a band from everyone else, at 24kts, because I think that's tactically fast enough for the Gulf/Caribbean theater and the relative 'containment' of that theater.

But I've also been considering that when I get to a ship that has to be over 27,000t to be a useful fleet unit, I'll probably need to switch to a 'Fully Armored Battlecruiser'.