1920s future fleets

[Jefgte]

Byzantine Fleet

6 x C3 class cruisers, 6000t-22.5kts will be rebuilt to 5110t-27kts
Their speed will be increased to 27kts. Their weaponry will be modernized.

Byzantine Fleet will have in 1922, 26 x 27-29kts cruisers.
14 with 6x191 & 8 with 234 or 254 & 4 with 343.

Futur Cruisers C7-5500t-29kts-6x191 (Fleet Cruiser) and C8-4750t-27kts-6x191 (Colonial Cruiser).

[Kaiser Kirk]

I am assessing my older ships and refurbishing those that make sense.

The Bucephalus ACs were posted with a refurb, but I think I will pass.
Even rebuilt, the 100mm belt and 30mm deck leaves them vulnerable to
the Byzantine 191mm, and at 5BP/Each, I can almost build a new 6000t cruiser.

Overall though, the Older ACs and PCs will be upgraded.
The Old ACs/PCs are slow, currently tasked with close-screening to add their QF weight.
Like Jefgte, lot of my older vessels project into the 27knot range when rebuilt.
I've designed new guns to fit in the old barbettes, so I can upgrade that way also.

Those refits are what I passed up for the extra LP/DP...but it's time.

The Royal Niessan CL design is a 30knot 180mm design, not yet posted
which should be the successor to the 12xMaelstrom/Ranger cruisers.

[Jefgte]

Times are difficult for dreamers.

:-[

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, real life makes it hard to enjoy the play right now.

[Desertfox]

So I am getting both 1915 Aircraft Carriers and 1915 Submarines in H1/21, also in OTL Japan was well known for putting aircraft on submarines, but the rules currently make no allowances for aircraft. I would like to build such ships, so want to request that they be added to the sub tech rules.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Glancing at Wiki,
while the Germans used subs as seaplane...transports seems like the best analogy, there was no stowage/launch/recovery/berthing/repair.

The first experimental seems to be
It lists the French Sourcouf built  1927-34,  and the Brits had a sub with a hanger in 27.

Italy builtdown a sub for it in 26-30,
The Japanese subs with planes seem to have started with the Junsen I-5 in 1929-32
However all of these appear to be one-off or experimental.

Actual sequential would seem to start with I-6 in 1932-34.

So two tech tiers, the experimental versions available about the 1925subs tech (finish 1927-28), the service versions about the 1930 sub tech (finish 1932-33). 


The other question is if we should modify the sub chart to allow for subs with a single plane in a hanger to reflect these,
or if that counts as trying to account for every little  'niche'.

But it looks like it's moot until ~1927. 

[Jefgte]

...But it looks like it's moot until ~1927.

1921, I also thought it was a bit too early.
1925 for techno and 1927 for first (test) usage seems more acceptable to me.

[Jefgte]

In the next few years, Byzantium will build 3 types of destroyers.
- 1500t Fleet Destroyers.
- 860t TGB for colonies.
- 500t coastal Torpedo Boats.

In 1923-01-01 Byzantine had:
- 60 Fleet Destroyers.
- 35 TGB for colonies.
- 95 coastal Destroyers.
(Total 190)

[The Rock Doctor]

I only have 135 destroyers over all, and suspect the number is going to decline further as large MTBs and submarines take on certain roles.

I suspect (but can not confirm) that the current 1,900 t design and its successors will be the only one I build for a while, as the older and smaller boats can be set aside to do the colonial/coastal defence thing where required.

[Desertfox]

Japan will be following a very similar plan, I currently have:

24 x Fleet Destroyers
60 x 750-800t Littoral Destroyers
86 x 400-710t 2nd Class Destroyers

Ill probably build another 24 Fubukis and replace the bulk of the 2nd class ships with the 500t Chidoris. That should leave me with:

48 x Fleet Destroyers
60 x 750-800t Littoral Destroyers
60 x 400-500t Torpedo Boats

I'm actually expecting MTBs to become less and less useful until the 120t K class comes around.

[Kaiser Kirk]

My dreams of what I want to build continuously exceed what I'm able to.
Then I wind up modifying as folks navies evolve.

The Parthian destroyers are caught in a battle of trying to provide sufficient numbers
and for the different ranges involved. We are trying to build 6-8 a year, which
should put us in the 120-160 vessel range longer term.

Parthia is currently building 2 tiers of destroyers- the 1500 ton 'Corvettes' and the 1000 ton 'Fleet Destroyers'.
The plan is to basically keep building those classes until Sonar starts becoming available.

For Destroyers, we kinda view them as fragile, so the 1000 tonners look like a better way to generate numbers,
with the big 1500 tonners for longer ranged assignments.

As newer vessels come available, the older are being relegated to more of a Torpedo Boat role.
Long term, they age out, and I would like room in my schedule for the 'Pesh-Kabr' 500ton coastal torpedo boats.
I would like to field ~96-128 of those size, but no idea if I ever will.

I will continue fielding MTBs in numbers.
I do not view them as terribly useful against a fleet at sea, but
in the right environment can be a hard to stomp out littoral defense,
and dangerous to any non-fleet assets.

Submarines will start to displace thier role over time, but I see a peacetime
role for MTBs as light patrol craft, easily able to ascend rivers on patrol.

[Desertfox]

Japan sees MTBs as purely coastal-defense deterrents. If you're going after a port you better bring destroyer escorts along. For peacetime patrol duties, auxiliaries are seen as much more capable and useful for the same cost, and for fleet actions you need something that can at least take a few hits and fight their way thru destroyer screens, in more weather conditions. With planes, subs, and older destroyers being around in numbers, the role of MTBs is slowly dying. AT least thats how Japan sees it.

[Jefgte]

...I will continue fielding MTBs in numbers.
I do not view them as terribly useful against a fleet at sea, but
in the right environment can be a hard to stomp out littoral defense,
and dangerous to any non-fleet assets...

MTBs are only useful in areas where the sea is often calm. Some areas are continuously with big waves (look at Ventusky).
MTBs therefore have a limited use.

[TacCovert4]

I second this, the Caribbean being generally calm is a major driver to the MTB swarms.  And once more effective MTBs come online in another 6 months,  I'll probably be turning over the old ones in favor of newer designs.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I see MTBs primarily as coast defense, and not suited to all sea areas.

So far, in wars, I've put limitations on them operating based on the sea state the weather chart comes up with.

They won't be based in large numbers in say Cape Town, as those seas
are rough.

Sumatra though- much better.  Sheltered waters, and lots and lots
of rivers they can go hide in out of 'reach' of any foes.
Same with say the Limpopo delta, or defending Ria de Janerio bay,
digging them out of the nooks and crannies will be problematic.
Far more than an equivalent tonnage of light destroyers.

I don't necessarily see throwing them at a main fleet as the best use.
Sending them after supply efforts, beachheads, bombardment squadrons, and interdicting
local merchant traffic is the prime role.

As for the main force .... It's an option - and could be done, but pretty much destroys your MTB force.
That said, I think that about destroyer forces doing attacks as well.
Destroyers are far better rounded and seafaring, but are very fragile.

Both can be useful, but need to be used situationally.
If I'm going to do a main force attack, I'd want to tie it to a separate effort - like the arrival
of a main fleet force, so that I can take advantage of the disruption and damaged units.
Alternately flip it and use the MTBs as follow up to a raid that draws forces away from
an amphibious force.

Peacetime, as I said, I see a use for many light patrol platforms for simple patrol of extensive
coasts and getting into the shallows.

Long term choices, I'm looking that I can build 16 MTBs for the cost of a light DD (640t)
There are - to me- many cases where the 16 tiny hulls have more value than the 1 hull.
more torpedo platforms,  and take 16 shell hits vs. basically 1.