Vilnius Union Ships, 1920+: Electric Drive Boogaloo

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, the actual combat utility of the whole three airplanes would be minimal, but perhaps demoralizing or even dangerous to a small guerilla or infantry group.  I'd just rather build the capability in than leave it out and regret it later.

[TacCovert4]

For the cost, it's worth it.  It's more of an 'army liason aircraft' than true CAS, just not enough sorties/sortie rate for that.  I'd suggest that if you enlarged them slightly you could do one or two things with them.

1 - Change the main armament to something a bit heftier, 70mm or greater.  Effectively you get a small river monitor with aircraft that can spot its fire and adjust.  So your planes aren't all that deadly.....anywhere within 5 miles of the river is still getting pounded, by artillery fire directed from your planes.

2 - Add on an additional 12t or so per plane of misc tonnage for fuel and ammo and stores, double or treble your sorties per plane.  Could be useful for something that's expected to operate its planes for extended periods of time without going back to port for resupply.

[The Rock Doctor]

These are certainly interesting thoughts but I might save them as "lessons learned" for one or more future classes.

[Desertfox]

Hmm, I have some 400t river MTB tenders that would be perfect for this role, just need the tech first.

[TacCovert4]

I've got to pull out all the stops to get carriers in the works myself.  Mostly because everybody else seems to be and I don't need to be too far behind.  Of course once I get the tech, I'll have to scratch build because I don't have any good platforms to start with unless I want to turn an Implacable class BB into a carrier.  Curse of losing practically the whole surface fleet in a war.  OTOH, it means that my carriers won't be conversions and will be able to maximize utility even in their less efficient states, and be rebuilt with newer technologies....maybe even built with expansion space to accommodate anticipated improvements. 

[The Rock Doctor]

I think my current push is less about actual strategic/tactical need and more about OOH I CAN DRAW CARRIERS NOW.

It may also explain why I have at least two carrier classes in the works for 1920.  Maybe three.

I'd be hard-pressed to convert a capital ship at this stage.  It could happen in a political environment where I'm bound by a treaty to do or not do certain things, but voluntarily?  I'd prefer not.

[TacCovert4]

Mostly since my nation is a bit 'behind' in tech, I've had to prioritize, and carriers weren't a high priority versus aircraft themselves and other ship techs.  I never anticipate that the RAN will be running around with fleet carriers, at least not before the late 30s.  I anticipate some form of light carrier to escort my ships, but the Caribbean/Gulf has so much territory that can be covered by good land based planes that fleets of big carriers are really just huge targets.

[The Rock Doctor]

I can see that I'll have an interest in having aircover in the Atlantic, while also having to consider environments like the Caribbean.  It'll be delightful.

[TacCovert4]

I can see that I'll have an interest in having aircover in the Atlantic, while also having to consider environments like the Caribbean.  It'll be delightful.

Yeah.  Fortunately for me, the big Pacific power and I are on decent terms.  Otherwise I'd have the most schizophrenic defense policy ever with a PacFlt designed around massive long range and airpower.....and then a Caribbean fleet based around more modest ranges and speeds, and all weather combat.

[The Rock Doctor]

A smaller, less heavily armed, mostly unarmored sloop.  It would serve a few functions - trade protection and inspection, escort of naval auxiliaries.

I went back to single 130mm as the beam seemed a bit narrow for twins.

The 50mm secondary is for close-in deterrence/bang during inspections and other boarding actions.  The conning tower is armored against small-arms fire in case the inspectees are feeling their oats that day.

The range and speed would allow a decent operating radius across the Atlantic and the seakeeping is reasonable for that as well. 



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,708 t light; 1,789 t standard; 2,050 t normal; 2,258 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (327.20 ft / 314.96 ft) x 37.73 ft x (13.12 / 14.08 ft)
   (99.73 m / 96.00 m) x 11.50 m  x (4.00 / 4.29 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      3 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      1 double raised mount
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 20 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 290 lbs / 131 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18,766 shp / 14,000 Kw = 26.26 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 469 tons

Complement:
   152 - 198

Cost:
   £0.422 million / $1.688 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 3.8 %
      - Guns: 77 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 53 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 49 tons, 2.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 656 tons, 32.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 766 tons, 37.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 16.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 157 tons, 7.7 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 57 tons
      - Above deck: 85 tons

Fittings: 
-7 t:  Fire control
-50 t:  Command facilities
-25 t :  L/R wireless
-12 t:  Triple heavyweight torpedo carriage
-15 t:  ASW ordnance
-15 t:  Enhanced Hydrophone Package
-10 t:  Night-fighting doodads
-23 t:  Weight reserve


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,867 lbs / 847 Kg = 27.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.14 ft / 4.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,643 Square feet or 710 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 267 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.77
      - Longitudinal: 3.47
      - Overall: 0.90
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

The Union's larger seaplane carrier experiment will be the Oriona.

The ship's design is driven by the knowledge that the Navy is still puzzling out what a seaplane carrier should do, how it should be laid out, etc.  There's widespread recognition that the end product will likely be a learning experience or, as a few old salts might say, "A piece of shit".  This has in turn driven a decision to re-use a repurposed set of turbine machinery that will be fifteen years old when it's installed in the Oriona.  On the one hand, this likely costs the ship a few knots of speed.  On the other hand, it negates over a third of its material costs.

It's not like Oriona was going to be running around with the battleline anyway - but she could keep pace with the older ships for exercise and doctrinal development purposes.

Anyway.

There's a flying-off deck forward, with a hanger for two wheeled fighters under it.  This is accessed by a crane on the port side.  There's no way to recover these guys, but it permits more experimentation with naval wheeled stuff than was possible before.

There's also a hanger and two cranes for up to four seaplanes, taking up the aft half of the ship.  The hanger is theoretically large enough to stow all four seaplanes with wings folded, or two if not.  There's a small air operations room atop the hanger, some trainable lights, that sort of thing.  This is all about learning how to operate an airgroup, albeit a small one.

Given her largely experimental nature, the ship is very lightly armed, which is just as well since there's hardly anywhere to put guns.  A couple of AA guns are on the roof of the hanger, and a single 10cm gun is jammed in on the centreline between the two funnels.  Don't even ask about armor.

The objective is to put Oriona through the paces after her late 1920 completion and inform the possible development of future seaplane carriers/seaplane cruisers/flight-deck cruisers.   

Oriona, laid down 1920 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   2,353 t light; 2,418 t standard; 2,963 t normal; 3,399 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (396.33 ft / 377.30 ft) x 45.93 ft x (12.47 / 13.81 ft)
   (120.80 m / 115.00 m) x 14.00 m x (3.80 / 4.21 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1920 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
      5 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 raised mount
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 39 lbs / 18 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,064 shp / 9,000 Kw = 22.59 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 981 tons

Complement:
   200 - 261

Cost:
   £0.502 million / $2.007 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 0.3 %
      - Guns: 7 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 914 tons, 30.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,135 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 610 tons, 20.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 290 tons, 9.8 %
      - Hull above water: 40 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 175 tons
      - Above deck: 75 tons

Fittings:
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-50 t:  Air operations center (AD)
-50 t:  Flying-off deck, hanger, and facilities forward for two winged fighters (FD)
-100 t:  Hanger, deck, and facilities aft for four armed floatplanes (FD)
-65 t:  Weight reserve (FD and AW)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,607 lbs / 2,090 Kg = 151.0 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.497
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   10.00 %,  25.26 ft / 7.70 m,  25.26 ft / 7.70 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m,  17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.18 ft / 5.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,341 Square feet or 1,054 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 284 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Desertfox]

Definitely better than the Japanese Yodo conversion, which while very similar has a complete lack of hangar or facilities space.

[The Rock Doctor]

One Tuesday afternoon for no particular reason, the Union decided to dust off the 1916 Emergency Battleship and update it.

The hull form was modified a little bit.  Bit more bunkerage.  Barbette protection was trimmed, and the belt length and thickness cut down, but the height of the belt was increased and it was sloped to give the equivalent of two standard (4.8m) deck heights.

There's enough miscellaneous weight for fire control and a long-range radio, and not a whole lot else.  But that's what happens when you design something on a hard 15,000 tonnage cap on a Tuesday afternoon.


1920 Emergency Battleship, laid down 1920

Displacement:
   14,962 t light; 15,807 t standard; 16,762 t normal; 17,526 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (451.87 ft / 439.63 ft) x 95.14 ft x (24.61 / 25.50 ft)
   (137.73 m / 134.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (7.50 / 7.77 m)

Armament:
      6 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.36lbs / 598.45kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
     2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      6 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8,743 lbs / 3,966 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   16.11 ft / 4.91 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 12.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   22.87 ft / 6.97 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.46 ft / 23.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 33,512 shp / 25,000 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,718 tons

Complement:
   736 - 957

Cost:
   £3.555 million / $14.221 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,834 tons, 10.9 %
      - Guns: 1,834 tons, 10.9 %
   Armour: 5,703 tons, 34.0 %
      - Belts: 2,159 tons, 12.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 426 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 1,361 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,590 tons, 9.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 167 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,172 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,984 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,800 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 270 tons, 1.6 %
      - On freeboard deck: 85 tons
      - Above deck: 185 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,100 lbs / 12,746 Kg = 21.5 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.90 ft / 5.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,745 Square feet or 2,763 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

Economical BB
I note the short hull, interesting study for PNJ.

[The Rock Doctor]

The Union needed a 29m beam to fit the turret (or so they say) and length was the trade-off to keep the light displacement below 15,000 t.

Plus the Union can build a lot more ships in 150m docks than it can in larger docks.