Vilnius Union Ships, 1920+: Electric Drive Boogaloo

[The Rock Doctor]

Also for my amusement, a screening cruiser that keeps most of its guns in deck-level casement galleries, allowing rather stupidly large broadsides and an ability to put out a lot of firepower on both beams. 

Sight lines for the non-casemate guns are probably pretty good.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1929

Displacement:
   7,881 t light; 8,612 t standard; 9,468 t normal; 10,153 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (540.81 ft / 524.93 ft) x 55.77 ft x (22.64 / 23.87 ft)
   (164.84 m / 160.00 m) x 17.00 m  x (6.90 / 7.27 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      24 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in casemate mounts, 1929 Model
     24 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mount, 1929 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,232 lbs / 1,012 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   380.58 ft / 116.00 m   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   2.95" / 75 mm   380.58 ft / 116.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.59" / 15 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 1.57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm  Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 87,131 shp / 65,000 Kw = 32.03 kts
   Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,541 tons

Complement:
   479 - 623

Cost:
   £3.140 million / $12.558 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 474 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 1,827 tons, 19.3 %
      - Belts: 1,076 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armament: 150 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 573 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,676 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,683 tons, 28.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,587 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 221 tons, 2.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
      - Above deck: 121 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,301 lbs / 3,765 Kg = 123.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.06 ft / 6.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,507 Square feet or 1,812 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 413 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.82
      - Longitudinal: 2.06
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Warning: Wrong mount for dual purpose gun - 2nd battery - I get it, I'm thinking anti torpedo bomber work here.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Also for my amusement, a screening cruiser that keeps most of its guns in deck-level casement galleries, allowing rather stupidly large broadsides and an ability to put out a lot of firepower on both beams. 

Warning: Wrong mount for dual purpose gun - 2nd battery - I get it, I'm thinking anti torpedo bomber work here.

I would NEVER do something like that, simply Un-Bavarian.

Oh wait, in this rendition I'm playing the Parthians who most definitely do such things...
Heck, I've posted a carrier along these lines...

DP :
I think that's one of the warnings that can be deleted in favor of the Clarity of 'yes, these casement guns are expected to be used for AA'.
Considering the USS Maryland was 'refurbished' to have 5"/38 DPs in the casements, which were then drilled at AA and issued some preset time fuse for barrage, and later prox fuse....there's precedent.

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, I thought you might be intrigued by that.

Too fast and not enough armor but what can I say.

[Jefgte]

...
Displacement:
   7,881 t light; 8,612 t standard; 9,468 t normal; 10,153 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (540.81 ft / 524.93 ft) x 55.77 ft x (22.64 / 23.87 ft)
   (164.84 m / 160.00 m) x 17.00 m  x (6.90 / 7.27 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      24 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 400 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in casemate mounts, 1929 Model
     24 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread...

I prefer 4 x 2000t DDs with 4T2x130 (32x130 in all)

[The Rock Doctor]

Well that's no fun, Jef.

[The Rock Doctor]

Starting to think about near-future battlecruisers.  I've got two Szermierz class (1916 lay down) and two Czarownik class (1919 lay down), so it's almost been twenty years since the former were started.

Szermierz is 33,000 t, 9x350mm, 29.5 knots.  Czarownik, though only three years younger, is 39,000 t, 8x400mm, 30 knots, and much more range, so definitely much more capable.

Notionally I could:

A)  Give the four existing ships refurbishments, keep them going another 10-15 years, and build two new heavy units

B)  Just refit Szermierzs, refurb Czarowniks, and built two heavy units to replace Szermierzs.

C)  Build a batch of four and just plan to replace them all.

Then comes the question of what to build, and it's really just a question of how big the guns would be:  Anywhere from 350mm up to the hypothetical 500mm pieces.  Since I lean toward heavy armor and high speeds, an 8x350mm ship probably starts around 40,000 t, topping out around 55,000 t for the heavier-gunned designs.

So lots of options going on.

[TacCovert4]

I'd presume that Rome would be building to at least match my Sovereign-types, so figure that 400mm+ guns on 50,000+ tons with 30kts or so is becoming a relatively common new-model battleship these days.

[The Rock Doctor]

They may be, but I'm not convinced I want to invest in something quite that big.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I/Parthia looked at ships in that size range and decided they were not worth the extra cost.
Strategically, I would rather have 5x 45,000 than 4x55,000 ships with the same guns/similar or weaker armor, and a modest speed boost.  I very nearly stuck with the 39,000 ton designs, for ~6 ships, but liked the 45k combo pack better, though the 6 would have been interesting. But more hulls= More deployment options, guns, more FC directors, far harder to sink, less critical if they are knocked of service, and if underwater damage caps speed to 19-20knts, not as critical. Etc.

The large and fast Roman ships continue to be a concern, but that high speed seems tactical, not strategic.
I have a hard time envisioning how they will be used, as steaming for any distance at that speed empties bunkers rapidly.

Tactically, the speed margin could be used to slowly overhaul and catch slower ships, such as my older cruisers. Granted, it would take 1/2 hour or more to crank up to max speed. My newer cruisers have a margin in cruising speed, which both makes it harder for submarines to attack them, and give me a starting speed advantage to open ranges. The Romans might be 1-2 knots faster, but would take a very long time to catch up.  Even so, I've been boosting the speed of my smaller ships not because of Byzantine changes* but as a result of keeping an eye on bigger Roman units, expecting the IJN to be similar speed-wise.

*As the Byzantines have similar speeds to the Parthians, going much faster just means I have to pay more tonnage for the same guns/armor, or have a faster but weaker ship than the Byzantine.

[TacCovert4]

The Parthians definitely don't have the same need for speed.  I was noting that the Union might find more need for that speed given they're operating in the same waters for their most vital trade routes.

Certainly the big and fast Roman ships are a major driver for the RAN to have those huge fast BBs of it's own, as we can't build the numbers.....and we can also get away with lower deployment numbers as our most vital trade lanes are all in the Caribbean, and we can use our cruisers to handle things worldwide.

[The Rock Doctor]

The completion of the D-class torpedo-boats as flagship-tenders means that the older N-class boats can now be taken out of that same role and utilized elsewhere.

The current notion right now is to replace the armament, to remove the oversized masts (with extra flag lockers and stuff) and extra short-range radio, and install some new sensors and fire control.

The existing flag facilities would be pared back but retained to a point, allowing them to function as torpedo-boat leaders in colonial and home waters.

Individual costs as refits would be $0.19 and 0.121 BP.  There are four units.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   1,483 t light; 1,552 t standard; 1,760 t normal; 1,926 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (374.96 ft / 362.86 ft) x 32.81 ft x (12.47 / 13.25 ft)
   (114.29 m / 110.60 m) x 10.00 m  x (3.80 / 4.04 m)

Armament:
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 4.18lbs / 1.89kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,161 shp / 22,500 Kw = 31.14 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 375 tons

Complement:
   135 - 176

Cost:
   £0.343 million / $1.373 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 41 tons, 2.3 %
      - Guns: 41 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 881 tons, 50.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 401 tons, 22.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 277 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 8.5 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 75 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Fittings: 
-25 t:  Sonar and enhanced hydrophones BW
-16 t:  1x4 530mm torpedo carriage FD
-10 t:  ASW stuff TBD, FD
-40 t:  Reduced flag facilities, FD
-9 t:  Weight reserve FD
-25 t:  L/R wireless AD
-10 t:  Nightfighting doodads AD
-10 t:  destroyer-scale Huelsmeyer device AD
-5 t:  Fire control



Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     444 lbs / 201 Kg = 14.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.415 / 0.427
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.99 ft / 3.96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,397 Square feet or 687 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 149 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.14
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Warning: Date too early for dual purpose gun - Main Battery