Vilnius Union Ships, 1920+: Electric Drive Boogaloo

[The Rock Doctor]

I've got a 75 to work with.  I imagine it's not much heavier than a 50, really.

[The Rock Doctor]

The U-class torpedo-boat is basically a T-class with slightly newer and lighter machinery (producing the same output) and a few extra goodies paid for with the weight savings:

-two extra torpedoes
-more heavy machine guns, in twin mounts
-sonar.

They'll start production in 2/24.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924

Displacement:
   1,885 t light; 1,974 t standard; 2,250 t normal; 2,471 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (388.70 ft / 377.30 ft) x 36.09 ft x (14.11 / 15.02 ft)
   (118.48 m / 115.00 m) x 11.00 m  x (4.30 / 4.58 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1924 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 302 lbs / 137 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,214 shp / 30,000 Kw = 32.25 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 497 tons

Complement:
   163 - 212

Cost:
   £0.773 million / $3.090 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 79 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 28 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armament: 28 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,117 tons, 49.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 533 tons, 23.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 365 tons, 16.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 128 tons, 5.7 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 58 tons
      - Above deck: 45 tons

Fittings:
-8 t:  1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-32 t:  2x4 21" TT (FD)
-15 t:  ASW munitions (FD)
-13 t:  Weight reserve (mostly FD)
-10 t:  Sonar
-15 t:  Enhanced hydrophones

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     544 lbs / 247 Kg = 8.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.423
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Forward deck:   26.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Aft deck:   39.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.44 ft / 4.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,432 Square feet or 783 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

The refurbishment of the small carrier Labedz won't take place until 1925, because I won't have the tech until then, but the Union already has a sense of what it wants to do, based on various mishaps and disappointments with attempted landings over the past while.

The main thing is clearing the flight deck off.  The above-decks superstructure will be scaled down and shifted to port; the funnels also.  The funnels and adjacent superstructure will also have some plating covering up gaps between them in order to reduce turbulence. Some below-flight deck working space will be created to offset the loss of working space in the actual island.  Why port?  Because Union engines torque clockwise and pilots are used to veering to starboard when landings need to be aborted.

The armament will also be adjusted.  The forward 130mm 2-gun mount (that is actually a twin mount because I didn't get the research done in time) has awful firing arcs and will be yanked.  From what's known about the recent Costa Rican war, a heavier AA battery is warranted so four 100mm guns will be added in sponsons adjacent to the hanger deck.  Existing 50mm guns will be relocated as well - on the port side, to fore and aft of the island.  On the starboard side, in a sponson opposite the island.  Some 15mm machine guns will also be added.

Estimated cost of the refurbishment is $1.84 and 0.041 BP.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922

Displacement:
   4,411 t light; 4,549 t standard; 4,880 t normal; 5,145 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (491.08 ft / 482.28 ft) x 45.93 ft x (15.42 / 16.05 ft)
   (149.68 m / 147.00 m) x 14.00 m  x (4.70 / 4.89 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.75kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 275 lbs / 125 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,577 shp / 34,000 Kw = 30.07 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 596 tons

Complement:
   291 - 379

Cost:
   £1.066 million / $4.264 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 44 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armament: 44 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,546 tons, 31.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,943 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 469 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 815 tons, 16.7 %
      - Hull below water: 360 tons
      - Hull above water: 360 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 45 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,841 lbs / 2,196 Kg = 72.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  21.98 ft / 6.70 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.08 ft / 6.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 230.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,759 Square feet or 1,371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 313 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.79
      - Longitudinal: 3.25
      - Overall: 0.91
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Kaiser Kirk]

nice little conversion, and pic.
What is the Airgroup ?

[The Rock Doctor]

Same as originally, a whopping six planes.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Ah, you have 9 paid for  in the 360+360,
but no misc wt breakdown, so not obvious.

Follow up question - it's a carrier, not a cruiser so why
is the hull 0.91 ?

[Jefgte]

Follow up question - it's a carrier, not a cruiser so why
is the hull 0.91 ?

A 0.9 cruiser transformed into a carrier must remain 0.9
Add some misc weight in reserve...for later.

The forward flight deck should not lean forward.
If the small carrier slumps when taking off, the pilot takes a bath.
In the warm waters of the Indian Ocean, no problemo.
But in the icy waters of the far north. He's going to peel the nuts    ;D  ;D  ;D

[Kaiser Kirk]

Follow up question - it's a carrier, not a cruiser so why
is the hull 0.91 ?

A 0.9 cruiser transformed into a carrier must remain 0.9
Add some misc weight in reserve...for later.

Well perhaps that is a discussion we need to have.

I was thinking that once it meets carrier specs, it needs to be 1.0
Which would mean less Misc Wt / Air Group, or a smaller engine, etc.

[The Rock Doctor]

Jef is correct.

The easy course of action is to decide the Union doesn't think six planes are practical and cut capacity to five.  Which reduces the limited utility further but this was always an experimental platform anyway.

I suppose just yanking out a boiler isn't out of the question either.

[Jefgte]

Well perhaps that is a discussion we need to have.

I was thinking that once it meets carrier specs, it needs to be 1.0
Which would mean less Misc Wt / Air Group, or a smaller engine, etc.

I have not tested 6000t cruiser (0.9) conversion to flat deck.

[Kaiser Kirk]

One thing we might ask is if the 1.0 hull is appropriate for carriers.
There's no big guns that require heavier scantlings for shock.
Many were built more along the lines of cruisers, and their guns and armor
are more on that scale.
Perhaps an item for a hoped-for spring rules discussion.

[The Rock Doctor]

Although the Union sees a need for fighter cover for capital ships, this is not that ship.  That'll be a bigger, faster, better protected vessel that benefits from more operational experience from Labedz and this class.  This class is a supporting element for trade protection forces and might be found operating with armored or light cruisers in the Caribbean or western Atlantic. 

The airgroup of 15 is notionally going to be 6 fighters and 9 scout/torpedo-bombers, though this will shrink to 12 aircraft in the next decade as planes get bigger.  One hanger is served by two elevators; the small extensions of the hanger forward and aft of the elevators are likely only wide enough for one aircraft each and might serve as repair/maintenance areas.  The area adjacent to the wonky superstructure might only be wide enough to stack fighters, hard to say without a deck plan that I am not drawing.

I'm assuming one cat is probably the limit of what can be accommodated on the flight deck, and have based the weight cost on the Aviation Ship guidelines.

Armament includes destroyer-scale anti-surface batteries and a modest heavy/light AA battery, most of it installed in on the sides.  Protection is modest and there was some question as to whether the belt was even worth the weight penalties.  Speed and range are barely adequate to keep up with contemporary armored cruisers but should be fine in any situation not involving panicked flight away from enemy surface ships.

Other fittings are somewhat spartan given her size but include small air operations and surface flag areas.

The class would notionally consist of two units, though more are not out of the question.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925

Displacement:
   8,996 t light; 9,277 t standard; 10,209 t normal; 10,955 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (558.71 ft / 541.99 ft) x 72.18 ft x (19.03 / 20.05 ft)
   (170.29 m / 165.20 m) x 22.00 m  x (5.80 / 6.11 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 530 lbs / 240 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   318.24 ft / 97.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,683 shp / 49,000 Kw = 29.46 kts
   Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,678 tons

Complement:
   507 - 660

Cost:
   £2.155 million / $8.621 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 855 tons, 8.4 %
      - Belts: 320 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 65 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 470 tons, 4.6 %
   Machinery: 2,133 tons, 20.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,457 tons, 43.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,213 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,423 tons, 13.9 %
      - Hull below water: 600 tons
      - Hull above water: 600 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 123 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Fittings:
-1,200 t:  15 aircraft @ 80 t each (BW/AW)
-13 t:  1918 fire control (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  Second S/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  Nightfighting doodads (AD)
-25 t:  Air Operation Center (AD)
-25 t:  Flag facilities (FD)
-5 t:  1 x Catapult (FD)
-110 t:  Weight reserve (mostly FD)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,779 lbs / 9,879 Kg = 324.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.489
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  27.89 ft / 8.50 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      31.23 ft / 9.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 315.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,601 Square feet or 2,378 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 468 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 4.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm assuming one cat is probably the limit of what can be accommodated on the flight deck, and have based the weight cost on the Aviation Ship guidelines.

I actually figure you can fit 2 - 22m beam is decently wide.

As for "how much"... That's the only cost basis we have.
It's kinda a storyline bit, as the 'Airgroup' weight is supposed to cover such things,
but it's probably useful as a way to specify and account for the design detail without paying an exorbitant additional cost.

I should observe that's a gunpowder cat, which should be the simplest, and ... somewhere I've read that floatplanes had a weight limit as a result.
Something like 5000lbs.

In my various readings really don't recall stumbling across weights for  hydraulic catapults, or space requirements. I have a vague memory of the flywheel one
on Saratoga being some obnoxious number like 100 tons, but also deemed too heavy and unsatisfactory.

[The Rock Doctor]

I might just follow your lead and go with 25t then.

Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes.  It throws off the building time but eh maybe the speed and protection will be that much better.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I might just follow your lead and go with 25t then.

Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes.  It throws off the building time but eh maybe the speed and protection will be that much better.

um, but the latest version of Falconeer follows your lead.
If they are mostly storyline elements, I don't think it matters that much.

BTW, when you express range at 10knts, I presume that's your cruise speed.
Which means you have 1,640 hours / 68 days / 9.76weeks of fuel.
Quite allot more than the amount of stores you likely have. 
BUT you may be planning prolonged high speed runs.
In which case I would advocate for a Notes range of X,000 @ Y kts.