Vilnius Union Ships, 1920+: Electric Drive Boogaloo

[Kaiser Kirk]

Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes. 

Well, at a minimum it would achieve 9,996 tons !

[The Rock Doctor]

I keep the cruise speed at 10 knots because it's easier for me to compare across classes, rather than having some ships with 10, some with 12, or some with 15.

But I agree with the general idea that notes on alternate ranges would be useful.

I meant I was following your lead in the sense of assigning catapult weights specifically.  I think you were first to assign a 25t figure for a hydraulic cat.

So 1,000 extra tonnes allows some additional options, and if I simply add to the ship's draft, it means:

-100% belt coverage, at 75mm
-A bit more range
-Speed bumped up above 30 kts
-18 aircraft rather than 15 (which means 15 rather than 12 when we get to the thirties).
-Drawing is unchanged since the above-water dimensions are the same.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1925

Displacement:
   9,971 t light; 10,275 t standard; 11,353 t normal; 12,216 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (558.71 ft / 541.99 ft) x 72.18 ft x (21.16 / 22.34 ft)
   (170.29 m / 165.20 m) x 22.00 m  x (6.45 / 6.81 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      12 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 530 lbs / 240 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   352.30 ft / 107.38 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 76,408 shp / 57,000 Kw = 30.10 kts
   Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts (12,200@12 or 7300@15, ignoring the geared machinery bonus)
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,942 tons

Complement:
   549 - 714

Cost:
   £2.426 million / $9.706 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 1,055 tons, 9.3 %
      - Belts: 519 tons, 4.6 %
      - Armament: 65 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 470 tons, 4.1 %
   Machinery: 2,481 tons, 21.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,625 tons, 40.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,382 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,682 tons, 14.8 %
      - Hull below water: 720 tons
      - Hull above water: 720 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 142 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,703 lbs / 9,844 Kg = 323.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.489
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  27.89 ft / 8.50 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m,  32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      31.23 ft / 9.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 291.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,601 Square feet or 2,378 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 477 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 4.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[The Rock Doctor]

Might also see what I can do with another thousand tonnes. 

Well, at a minimum it would achieve 9,996 tons !

Achieve my objectives with a mere 975 extra tonnes.  Government people would say, "I'm going to let you have your other 25 tonnes back" and disconnect from the call.

[The Rock Doctor]

For giggles, a 3,000 t, 0.75 mini-carrier.

The waterplane area allows for 18 aircraft; I assigned weight for six (five at 1933 tech).

The hull is 20m shorter than HMS Audacity, which is probably not a deal-breaker if operating light aircraft and there's no deck-park.  The big problem is going to be the limited width of the ship, I think.  At 14 metres, it's 3 metres narrower than a CVE.  A challenge for landing and for installing a hanger below deck.  I'd assume a single lift centre-ish and a skinny hanger just wide enough for one plane with wings folded.

Stability isn't great, given the freeboard, but lots of bunkerage and the weight of the belt helped with that.  Miscellaneous weight allows for a couple radios above deck, one catapult on deck, and a bit of a reserve.

Mini-Me, laid down 1925

Displacement:
   2,994 t light; 3,093 t standard; 3,574 t normal; 3,959 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (424.13 ft / 403.54 ft) x 49.21 ft x (13.12 / 14.16 ft)
   (129.28 m / 123.00 m) x 15.00 m  x (4.00 / 4.32 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 185 lbs / 84 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 12,064 shp / 9,000 Kw = 22.05 kts
   Range 16,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 866 tons

Complement:
   230 - 300

Cost:
   £0.552 million / $2.209 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 34 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 498 tons, 13.9 %
      - Belts: 250 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 239 tons, 6.7 %
   Machinery: 392 tons, 11.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,490 tons, 41.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 580 tons, 16.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 580 tons, 16.2 %
      - Hull below water: 240 tons
      - Hull above water: 240 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,838 lbs / 4,916 Kg = 355.2 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m,  29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 317.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,996 Square feet or 1,207 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 183 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 222 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.56
      - Longitudinal: 9.68
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Waterplane area allows 18 aircraft, surprisingly.

[TacCovert4]

Not too far off from my Creek class.  Though the latter has a true main battery, as a river is one heck of a way to easily transport artillery and I'd be remiss to waste the opportunity.  Also, the Creeks have a similar draft for purposes of operating on the Missouri, and a secondary battery/AA Battery of 30mm guns that are better at ripping up small boats than even an MG.

[Kaiser Kirk]

playing about, I wound up with a similar vessel,
though I omitted armor and put the speed at 20knts,
cruise at 16@6600 while packing destroyer guns.
and wound up with 13 AC

For me, I'm thinking its suspicious that
I can't recall any actual small carriers like this.
...beyond wartime expediency escort carriers.

[The Rock Doctor]

Even the smallest CVE are substantially larger.

[Jefgte]

This flat deck is good for catapulting 6 seaplanes or 6 protection fighters.
Landing prohibited!!!

[TacCovert4]

Eh, you might pull off landing biplanes if you have a good headwind and she's going flat out

[Jefgte]

Eh, you might pull off landing biplanes if you have a good headwind and she's going flat out

Catapulted fighters could land on a real aircraft carrier or land.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Actually with 120m clear deck should be fine that way, particularly with bi-planes.

As noted under my carrier offerings the USN when considering flight deck cruisers,
Friedmans says a clear flight deck of at least 234ft was desired.
Now that was for mid-20s designs, and equates to 71.3m

I think HMS Vindictive is illustrative though as she did operate against the Red Russians- From Wikie:
a 78 by 49 feet (23.8 by 14.9 m) hangar with a capacity for six reconnaissance aircraft. The hangar roof, with a small extension, formed the 106-foot (32 m) flying-off deck. The aircraft were hoisted up through a hatch at the aft end of the flying-off deck by two derricks. The 193 by 57 feet (58.8 by 17.4 m) landing deck required the removal of Nos. 5 and 6 7.5-inch guns and moving the four 3-inch AA guns to an elevated platform between the funnels, in lieu of the 3-inch guns intended for that position.[10] A port side gangway 8 feet (2.4 m) wide connected the landing and flying-off decks to allow aircraft with their wings folded to be wheeled from one to the other.

[The Rock Doctor]

I may have posted this already in an earlier form.

This would be a shallow-draft light monitor/gunship/whatever intended to provide a dedicated shore bombardment function to an amphibious landing.  In peace time, it would probably make a useful gunnery training vessel.

Operationally we might see something of this ilk around the canal zone - or in the Canal Zone, if things got pear-shaped.  The draft would also allow operations a fair distance up the major South American river network if that proved necessary.  Probably a bit deep to penetrate far into the [Niger].

There are two two-gun 150mm turrets as the primary weapon, and their placement on raised fore/aft decks ensures that there are four decks under the turrets to accommodate the barbettes.  The ship's draft only allows for one deck below water, after all.

A lone twin 100mm and torpedo nets provide protection against torpedo craft, but the AA battery is pretty heavy for the size.  Protection is primarily about resisting contemporary land-based artillery in the <100mm range rather than scrapping with enemy cruisers.

The prominent upperworks would allow for decent spotting of fire if no land or sea-based aircraft are available to call shots. I find the final product to be kind of a throwback to pre-dread designs and find it oddly pleasing.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1924

Displacement:
   1,891 t light; 2,020 t standard; 2,099 t normal; 2,161 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (274.55 ft / 262.47 ft) x 52.49 ft x (8.20 / 8.41 ft)
   (83.68 m / 80.00 m) x 16.00 m  x (2.50 / 2.56 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline amidships (forward deck)
      2 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1924 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      1 raised mount
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 90.0 cal guns - 35.36lbs / 16.04kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0.98" / 25 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,145 shp / 1,600 Kw = 14.14 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 141 tons

Complement:
   154 - 201

Cost:
   £0.409 million / $1.634 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 171 tons, 8.2 %
   Armour: 386 tons, 18.4 %
      - Belts: 91 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armament: 94 tons, 4.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 194 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 71 tons, 3.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,086 tons, 51.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 208 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 177 tons, 8.4 %
      - Hull below water: 40 tons
      - Hull above water: 80 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 27 tons
      - Above deck: 30 tons

Fittings:
-40 t:  T-E machinery BW
-80 t:  Torpedo nets AW
-10 t:  Extra S/R wireless AD
-18 t:  1918 Fire control AD
-29 t:  Weight reserve mostly FD 

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,232 lbs / 5,095 Kg = 109.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.47 ft / 6.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 308.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,555 Square feet or 981 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 169 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 364 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.80
      - Longitudinal: 6.89
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Jefgte]

Perhaps have more misc weight in reserve to transport troops, weapons or equipment.

[TacCovert4]

I would say more for troops etc.  Agree with Jef. 

I'd also say I would worry about such a ship in the Canal Zone if things went Pear Shaped....Maya 2.0.  I don't see it surviving for long against what their naval and air forces can bring to bear today.  Unfortunately, to contain that power, more top shelf equipment is required.

[The Rock Doctor]

Noted on survivability.

Can't say I'm enthused about adding troop capacity.  It's a gunnery platform.  Anyway.