Byzantine Empire 1925...

Jefgte · September 05, 2023, 01:09:22 AM

Quote...Putting numbers and roles first means the
lowest tonnage that can do those is important...

I have the same problem with the 4000t (3T2x191 - 27kts).
I won't be able to build them...too big.
I have to reduce to 3000t with 3T2x152 - 29kts.

This is a 10000nm range of the 1925 C10 class

C12, Byzantine Empire C12 laid down 1928

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 147 t standard; 3 575 t normal; 3 918 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (439,22 ft / 433,07 ft) x 43,31 ft x (14,02 / 15,00 ft)
   (133,88 m / 132,00 m) x 13,20 m x (4,27 / 4,57 m)

Armament:
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 665 lbs / 302 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,77" / 45 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Box over machinery & magazines:
   1,77" / 45 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2,76" / 70 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 34 000 shp / 25 364 Kw = 29,04 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 771 tons

Complement:
   230 - 300

Cost:
   £1,205 million / $4,818 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 176 tons, 4,9 %
     - Guns: 176 tons, 4,9 %
   Armour: 602 tons, 16,9 %
     - Armament: 31 tons, 0,9 %
     - Armour Deck: 552 tons, 15,4 %
     - Conning Towers: 20 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 059 tons, 29,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 039 tons, 29,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 575 tons, 16,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 124 tons, 3,5 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 51 tons
     - Above deck: 43 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 714 lbs / 1 231 Kg = 25,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 13,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,476 / 0,488
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 18,86 ft / 5,75 m
     - Forward deck:   34,00 %, 18,86 ft / 5,75 m, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m
     - Aft deck:   34,00 %, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m, 12,80 ft / 3,90 m
     - Quarter deck:   14,50 %, 12,80 ft / 3,90 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
     - Average freeboard:      15,65 ft / 4,77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 230 Square feet or 1 136 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 270 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,71
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
18t for top mast rangefinder - FC1924
OD
16t for 4TTx21" HW
25t for cata + seaplane
10t reserved for new materials, armaments.
AW
15t for climatisation
BW
15t for additionnal pumps

Kaiser Kirk · September 05, 2023, 11:08:00 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on September 05, 2023, 01:09:22 AM

I have the same problem with the 4000t (3T2x191 - 27kts).
I won't be able to build them...too big.
I have to reduce to 3000t with 3T2x152 - 29kts.

To replace my ancient sailing Armored Frigates I've been building first the Artesmia II and now the Sayidda classes*.
Like you I'd prefer a larger vessel, but the costs add up.
For me, the role is show the flag, maritime patrol in peace and commerce raid / counter Armed Merchant Cruisers in war.
So I have similar vessels to what you have here.

*Both of which are still buried in my ship design thread. I've been updating the Parthian encyclopedia, just have not gotten to them yet.

Jefgte · September 05, 2023, 03:35:02 PM

Quote...For me, the role is show the flag, maritime patrol in peace and commerce raid / counter Armed Merchant Cruisers in war.
So I have similar vessels to what you have here...

I add the scouting of the fleet, the close protection of the "big ones", the defense against torpedo boat attacks, the support of the attacks of the Byzantine torpedo boats...

Jefgte · September 05, 2023, 04:12:03 PM

The Construction Plan is taking shape for the 1928 new hulls.
8xMTBH 80t
4xTGB500 for coastal works
6x750t Submarines
6x1700t DD (3T2x120)
4x3000t C12 (3T2x152)
2x37000t BC (3T3x381)
2x15000t Flat Deck

Jefgte · September 06, 2023, 04:26:09 PM

& the 1700t DD

D13, Byzantine Empire Long range D12 laid down 1928

Displacement:
   1 700 t light; 1 781 t standard; 2 124 t normal; 2 398 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (381,78 ft / 374,02 ft) x 36,09 ft x (13,60 / 14,75 ft)
   (116,37 m / 114,00 m) x 11,00 m x (4,14 / 4,49 m)

Armament:
6 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 308 lbs / 140 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,79" / 20 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 39 200 shp / 29 243 Kw = 32,32 kts
   Range 11 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 617 tons

Complement:
   156 - 203

Cost:
   £0,855 million / $3,420 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 48 tons, 2,3 %
     - Guns: 48 tons, 2,3 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0,4 %
     - Armament: 8 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1 062 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 476 tons, 22,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 423 tons, 19,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 106 tons, 5,0 %
     - Hull above water: 8 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 68 tons
     - Above deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     566 lbs / 257 Kg = 10,7 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 11,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,23
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,405 / 0,422
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
     - Forward deck:   23,00 %, 18,37 ft / 5,60 m, 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
     - Aft deck:   45,00 %, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     - Quarter deck:   14,50 %, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m
     - Average freeboard:      13,89 ft / 4,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 333 Square feet or 774 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 160 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,24
      - Overall: 0,55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
5t for 1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
OD
36t for 2x4TTx533HW
15t for improved Hydrophone
5t for 50x90DC
12t reserved for new material, armament, minen.
AW
8T for climatisation

5610nm@16kts
Trial speed: 33kts
Bonus: 0.68

Jefgte · October 05, 2023, 03:54:21 PM

Marta - Mira, Byzantine Empire 9000t CVL - 18 aircrafts laid down 1928

Displacement:
   9 000 t light; 9 318 t standard; 10 307 t normal; 11 097 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (573,66 ft / 570,87 ft) x 68,90 ft x (18,34 / 19,40 ft)
   (174,85 m / 174,00 m) x 21,00 m x (5,59 / 5,91 m)

Armament:
8 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 240 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
16 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 10 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 297 lbs / 135 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Box over machinery & magazines:
   1,77" / 45 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60 600 shp / 45 208 Kw = 29,01 kts
   Range 12 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 779 tons

Complement:
   510 - 664

Cost:
   £2,267 million / $9,069 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 56 tons, 0,5 %
     - Guns: 56 tons, 0,5 %
   Armour: 660 tons, 6,4 %
     - Armament: 10 tons, 0,1 %
     - Armour Deck: 650 tons, 6,3 %
   Machinery: 1 887 tons, 18,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 698 tons, 45,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 307 tons, 12,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 699 tons, 16,5 %
     - Hull below water: 100 tons
     - Hull above water: 813 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 760 tons
     - Above deck: 26 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26 423 lbs / 11 985 Kg = 244,7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,05
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   10,00 %, 26,57 ft / 8,10 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
     - Forward deck:   40,00 %, 34,45 ft / 10,50 m, 34,45 ft / 10,50 m
     - Aft deck:   50,00 %, 34,45 ft / 10,50 m, 34,45 ft / 10,50 m
     - Quarter deck:   0,00 %, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
     - Average freeboard:      33,41 ft / 10,18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 336,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 26 206 Square feet or 2 435 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 164 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 435 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,83
      - Longitudinal: 5,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

misc weight:
AD
25t for LR Marconi
1t for 1924 fire control
OD
720t for 9 Aircrafts
20t for Climatisation
20t for Fire Fighting
HAW
720t for 9 Aircrafts
40t for Climatisation
40t for Fire Fighting
13t for aircrafts spare parts
HBW
40t for additionnal pumps
60t reserved for material...

The Rock Doctor · October 05, 2023, 07:56:45 PM

Potentially handy.

Jefgte · November 11, 2023, 04:42:02 PM

Testing a kind of Takao for Byzance

Kutul class, Byzantine Empire C10 laid down 1929

Displacement:
   9 000 t light; 9 489 t standard; 10 641 t normal; 11 562 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (574,13 ft / 570,87 ft) x 67,52 ft x (19,32 / 20,58 ft)
   (174,99 m / 174,00 m) x 20,58 m x (5,89 / 6,27 m)

Armament:
10 - 8,00" / 203 mm 50,0 cal guns - 256,00lbs / 116,12kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1929 Model
     5 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1929 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 6 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 193 lbs / 1 448 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   370,73 ft / 113,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   1,38" / 35 mm   200,13 ft / 61,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,51" / 140 mm   1,77" / 45 mm      2,76" / 70 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,24" / 6 mm     -           -

- Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 61 400 shp / 45 804 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 14 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 072 tons

Complement:
   523 - 680

Cost:
   £3,698 million / $14,791 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 025 tons, 9,6 %
     - Guns: 1 025 tons, 9,6 %
   Armour: 1 908 tons, 17,9 %
     - Belts: 680 tons, 6,4 %
     - Armament: 365 tons, 3,4 %
     - Armour Deck: 797 tons, 7,5 %
     - Conning Towers: 66 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 886 tons, 17,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 905 tons, 36,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 640 tons, 15,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 276 tons, 2,6 %
     - Hull below water: 45 tons
     - Hull above water: 45 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 59 tons
     - Above deck: 127 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14 065 lbs / 6 380 Kg = 54,9 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
   Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,68
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 26,57 ft / 8,10 m, 21,98 ft / 6,70 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 21,98 ft / 6,70 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,50 %, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Average freeboard:      19,16 ft / 5,84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 681 Square feet or 2 386 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 577 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,38
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

AD
25t for Long Range Marconi
102t for top mast rangefinder - 1924
OD
32t for 2x4TTx533HW
37t reserved
AW
45t for climatisation
BW
45t for additionnal pumps