Byzantine Empire 1918-1922

Jefgte · May 23, 2021, 05:01:34 PM

At the end of 1917, new rebuilt Colonial BB Drasty & Niebez are going to join the 5th & 6th battle squadron (Diego Suarez & Port Darwin)
replacing AC Foros & Fatsa.
Then, as early noted, speed of Foros & Fatsa could be update to 27kts with new engines.
1911 engines from these cruisers could be used in 2 new Seaplane Transports.

But, I have doubts about the feasibility of dismantling the machines and reassembling them without problems(?)

Hava - Ruzgar, Byzantine Empire Sea Planes Transport & Tender laid down 1918 (Engine 1911)

Displacement:
   6 000 t light; 6 220 t standard; 7 090 t normal; 7 787 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492,13 ft / 492,13 ft) x 71,52 ft x (14,10 / 15,14 ft)
   (150,00 m / 150,00 m) x 21,80 m x (4,30 / 4,61 m)

Armament:
2 - 7,50" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 212,74lbs / 96,50kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 7,50" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 212,74lbs / 96,50kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
8 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 10 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 331 lbs / 604 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,57" / 40 mm   229,66 ft / 70,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 72 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,98" / 25 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26 071 shp / 19 449 Kw = 24,26 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 567 tons (20% coal)

Complement:
   386 - 502

Cost:
   £0,967 million / $3,870 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 345 tons, 4,9 %
     - Guns: 345 tons, 4,9 %
   Armour: 221 tons, 3,1 %
     - Belts: 165 tons, 2,3 %
     - Armament: 56 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 1 078 tons, 15,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 118 tons, 44,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 090 tons, 15,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 239 tons, 17,5 %
     - Hull below water: 190 tons
     - Hull above water: 190 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 800 tons
     - Above deck: 59 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18 425 lbs / 8 357 Kg = 87,3 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 14,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,99

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 18,70 ft / 5,70 m
     - Forward deck:   27,50 %, 18,70 ft / 5,70 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Aft deck:   40,00 %, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15,00 %, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Average freeboard:      25,18 ft / 7,67 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 329,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 452 Square feet or 2 179 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 459 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,80
      - Longitudinal: 2,63
      - Overall: 0,90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

misc weight: 1240t
34t for Top Mast Rangefinder
25t for Long Range Marconi
720t for Hangar, repair workshop & 2 aft cranes
80t for 8 Float Planes SHORT 184
380t for Pilots, Air Personnel, armaments, Material & Petrol...

Kaiser Kirk · May 23, 2021, 08:24:16 PM

Quote from: Jefgte on May 23, 2021, 05:01:34 PM

1911 engines from these cruisers could be used in 2 new Seaplane Transports.

But, I have doubts about the feasibility of dismantling the machines and reassembling them without problems(?)

Short Answer: I think we can allow it to work without 'bonus' problems.

Long Answer :
Two issues :

1) Specific Question : Is it reasonable to dismantle and reuse such large machinery as engines?
I do not know of it occurring.
That period of steam engine was used extensively in my area for logging and so I've seen a number of boilers and they are riveted, not bolted.
So I would assume the machinery is in large pieces and hard to move.

This type of work allows you to alter the armor deck, therefore you are removing chunks of ships down to the armor deck
The cutting torch was invented in 1903, and would be the presumed how you remove ship parts.

So, it probably would be an additional cost to not cut it into small chunks.

Do we want to make a rule for these subcases? and then try to track that the player has properly applied the extra cost?

I would say no.

So we will "Hand wave" that once you get down to armor deck level, and open that up, you cut the machineries attachment points to the ship, and use cranes to take them out in large pieces which can be reusable.

2) The overall question of if equipment removed from one vessel can be used on another is not specifically addressed in the Rules.

The question then is : IF there is no provision FOR it, IS it is not allowed ?

I have noticed some players do it.
I do not see a rule that clearly disallows it.
I do not see a reason to disallow it.
It's a nice storyline issue, but does not give great advantage.
All the "equipment" is paid for and so free.

So long as they are willing to track the removed equipment on their turn sheets until they are reused,
That way it is clear what is occurring, and trackable, but not required for participation.
As such it does not raise the minimum effort for other players or moderators.

Jefgte · May 24, 2021, 08:13:14 AM

In 1914, I have built 2 MTB Transports and I have in project, for 1918, 2 Sub tenders, all with the mercantile rules.
For the Sea Plane Transports, I will also build them in 1918, with the mercantile rules.
It's more logical and simpler.

The engines of the AC Foros & Fatsa will be changed to increase the speed to 27kts, as planned when they were built in 1911. They could thus become Heavy Scout Cruisers.
Old engines will be scrapped.

Jefgte · May 24, 2021, 08:25:17 AM

Byzantine Empire Sea Planes Transport & Tender laid down 1918 (Engine 1911)

Antalya - Adana

Mercantile rules => 1.5$ & 1.5BP

A possible reconstruction around 1925-28 with a complete flight deck will make them enter the Warships category with an additional cost of:
$ 6 & 6BP x 0.25 = $ 1.5 & 1.5BP (Mercantile rules)
=> $ 6 & 6BP x 0.75 = $ 4.5 & 4.5BP

Displacement:
   5 035 t light; 5 200 t standard; 6 000 t normal; 6 639 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492,13 ft / 492,13 ft) x 68,90 ft x (12,39 / 13,38 ft)
   (150,00 m / 150,00 m) x 21,00 m x (3,78 / 4,08 m)

Armament:
2 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,03lbs / 24,05kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,03lbs / 24,05kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
8 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 10 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 373 lbs / 169 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20 000 shp / 14 920 Kw = 23,23 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 439 tons (20% coal)

Complement:
   340 - 443

Cost:
   £0,630 million / $2,521 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 72 tons, 1,2 %
     - Guns: 72 tons, 1,2 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 0,3 %
     - Armament: 16 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 827 tons, 13,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 881 tons, 48,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 965 tons, 16,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 242 tons, 20,7 %
     - Hull below water: 205 tons
     - Hull above water: 205 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 800 tons
     - Above deck: 32 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23 804 lbs / 10 797 Kg = 452,7 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 13,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,10
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,512
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 21,00 ft / 6,40 m, 18,37 ft / 5,60 m
     - Forward deck:   27,50 %, 18,37 ft / 5,60 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Aft deck:   40,00 %, 35,76 ft / 10,90 m, 35,76 ft / 10,90 m
     - Quarter deck:   15,00 %, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Average freeboard:      24,95 ft / 7,60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 56,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 357,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 591 Square feet or 2 099 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 192 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 418 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,89
      - Longitudinal: 2,65
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

misc weight: 1242t
7t for Top Mast Rangefinder
25t for Long Range Marconi
750t for Hangar, repair workshop & 2 aft cranes
80t for 8 Float Planes SHORT 184
380t for Pilots, Air Personnel, armaments, Material & Petrol...

Jefgte · June 04, 2021, 04:33:21 PM

Reconstruction for 1911 AC cruisers Foros & Fatsa
1911 engines 24kts => 1917 engines 27kts

		Foros Fatsa	7000t
		25% $	10% BP
		1,75	0,7
new engine	1575t => +	1,575	1,575
old engine	1152t => -	-0,17	-0,17
		3,155	2,105
		$	BP

Foros - Fatsa, Byzantine Empire AC6 laid down 1911 (Engine 1917)

Displacement:
   7 475 t light; 7 893 t standard; 8 425 t normal; 8 850 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (515,00 ft / 515,00 ft) x 62,10 ft x (18,08 / 18,77 ft)
   (156,97 m / 156,97 m) x 18,93 m x (5,51 / 5,72 m)

Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 170 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 280 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,71" / 120 mm   318,00 ft / 96,93 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
   Ends:   1,95" / 50 mm   180,00 ft / 54,86 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     17,00 ft / 5,18 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,55" / 90 mm   318,00 ft / 96,93 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,92" / 150 mm   2,55" / 65 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   0,77" / 20 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,27" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,27" / 32 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42 000 shp / 31 332 Kw = 27,02 kts
   Range 5 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 957 tons (25% coal)

Complement:
   439 - 571

Cost:
   £0,733 million / $2,933 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 636 tons, 7,6 %
     - Guns: 636 tons, 7,6 %
   Armour: 2 008 tons, 23,8 %
     - Belts: 1 151 tons, 13,7 %
     - Armament: 325 tons, 3,9 %
     - Armour Deck: 486 tons, 5,8 %
     - Conning Towers: 47 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 575 tons, 18,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 023 tons, 35,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 950 tons, 11,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 232 tons, 2,8 %
     - Hull below water: 35 tons
     - Hull above water: 35 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 74 tons
     - Above deck: 88 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 205 lbs / 4 629 Kg = 26,2 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,516
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,00 %, 23,72 ft / 7,23 m, 20,51 ft / 6,25 m
     - Forward deck:   32,00 %, 16,57 ft / 5,05 m, 14,57 ft / 4,44 m
     - Aft deck:   32,00 %, 14,57 ft / 4,44 m, 13,55 ft / 4,13 m
     - Quarter deck:   18,00 %, 13,55 ft / 4,13 m, 13,55 ft / 4,13 m
     - Average freeboard:      15,84 ft / 4,83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 21 504 Square feet or 1 998 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 525 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,28
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

24t for 8 TT x 18''
63t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
35t for additionnal pumps
35t for additionnal ventilation
50t reserved for troops, materials, mines...

Original built

Foros - Fatsa, Byzantine Empire AC6 laid down 1911

Displacement:
   7 000 t light; 7 415 t standard; 8 234 t normal; 8 889 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (515,00 ft / 515,00 ft) x 62,10 ft x (17,67 / 18,73 ft)
   (156,97 m / 156,97 m) x 18,93 m x (5,39 / 5,71 m)

Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,66lbs / 178,11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,03lbs / 24,05kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2 992 lbs / 1 357 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,71" / 120 mm   318,00 ft / 96,93 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
   Ends:   1,95" / 50 mm   180,00 ft / 54,86 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     17,00 ft / 5,18 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,55" / 90 mm   318,00 ft / 96,93 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,92" / 150 mm   2,55" / 65 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   0,77" / 20 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,27" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3,95" / 100 mm, Aft 1,27" / 32 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26 071 shp / 19 449 Kw = 24,00 kts
   Range 5 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 474 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   431 - 561

Cost:
   £0,657 million / $2,629 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 636 tons, 7,7 %
     - Guns: 636 tons, 7,7 %
   Armour: 2 010 tons, 24,4 %
     - Belts: 1 148 tons, 13,9 %
     - Armament: 330 tons, 4,0 %
     - Armour Deck: 486 tons, 5,9 %
     - Conning Towers: 46 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 152 tons, 14,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 970 tons, 36,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 233 tons, 15,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 232 tons, 2,8 %
     - Hull below water: 35 tons
     - Hull above water: 35 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 74 tons
     - Above deck: 88 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12 295 lbs / 5 577 Kg = 31,6 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 14,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,64
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,510 / 0,519
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,00 %, 20,00 ft / 6,10 m, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m
     - Forward deck:   32,00 %, 17,00 ft / 5,18 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
     - Aft deck:   32,00 %, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
     - Quarter deck:   18,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
     - Average freeboard:      15,56 ft / 4,74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 21 504 Square feet or 1 998 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 522 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,25
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

24t for 8 TT x 18''
63t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
35t for additionnal pumps
35t for additionnal ventilation
50t reserved for troops, materials, mines...

Jefgte · June 12, 2021, 04:14:33 PM

1917H2	BYZANTINE FLEET MANAGEMENT

	16BB + 14AC + 30PC + 86DD + 42TB + 200MTB + 34SS

Here is the part of Armored Cruisers

				ARMORED CRUISERS
Comments	Where are they ?	Affectation	Name	Qty	LD	Class	Displ,	Armament	Speed	Range-Speed	Armour
	Marmara	5th Scouting Cruisers	Harad	1	1914	AC8	6950	2T2x234+10x152-2x76+12TTx457	27	5500nm-12kts	B120-90-30-T150-65-Bte120-D35-25
			Haydan	1	1914	AC8	6950	2T2x234+10x152-2x76+12TTx457	27	5500nm-12kts	B120-90-30-T150-65-Bte120-D35-25
	Marmara	6th Scouting Cruisers	Hanoun	1	1914	AC8	6950	2T2x234+10x152-2x76+12TTx457	27	5500nm-12kts	B120-90-30-T150-65-Bte120-D35-25
			Halwan	1	1914	AC8	6950	2T2x234+10x152-2x76+12TTx457	27	5500nm-12kts	B120-90-30-T150-65-Bte120-D35-25
	Madagascar	2nd Scouting Cruisers	Gaqus	1	1913	BC7	15800	3T2x343+12x152+4x76,2+8TTx457	27	7500nm-12kts	B230-50-90-T255-75-Btte230-D65-25-Bks200-100
			Gadhla	1			15800
Rebuilt as SC-1917H2	Athenes Shipyards	Scouting Cruisers	Fatsa	0	1911	AC6	7000	3T2x234+12x120	24	5500nm-12kts	B120-90-30-T150-65-Btte120-D32-25
Rebuilt as SC-1917H2	Alexandrie Shipyards		Foros	0			7000
	Marmara	1st Scouting Cruisers	Eupatoria	1	1910	BC5	28500	3T3x343/45+14x120+4x76	29,2	6000nm-12kts	B320-Bkh38-T340-120-Btte300-D80-45-Bks300
			Enteia	1			28500
	Marmara	3rd Scouting Cruisers	Damas	1	1908	AC4	16350	4T2x254+10x152+12x102+3TTx457	27	6000nm-12kts	B200-50-90-T240-75-Btte200-D45-30-Bks240-200
			Darea	1			16350
	Marmara	4th Scouting Cruisers	Ceyhan	1	1904	AC3	14860	4T2x254+8x152+8x102+3TTx457	25	5000nm-10kts	B200-50-90-T240-75-Btte200-D45-30-Bks240-200
			Canakkale	1			14860
	Madagascar	6th Battle Division	Bourgas	1	1900	AC2	13740	3T2x234+8x152+10x76+3TTx457	24	4500nm-10kts	B130-90-50-T140-75-Btte90-D32-25
	Australia	7th Battle Division	Bapha	1	1900	AC2	13740	3T2x234+8x152+10x76+3TTx457	24	4500nm-10kts	B130-90-50-T140-75-Btte90-D32-25
				14	ARMORED CRUISERS

Jefgte · June 13, 2021, 04:25:19 PM

Akaba class river gunboat were built in 1890-94.
They need replacement.

Mayyun, Byzantine Empire River Gunboat laid down 1918

Displacement:
   110 t light; 123 t standard; 128 t normal; 132 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (124,67 ft / 124,67 ft) x 19,69 ft x (3,94 / 4,02 ft)
   (38,00 m / 38,00 m) x 6,00 m x (1,20 / 1,23 m)

Armament:
2 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,66lbs / 14,81kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 6 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 72 lbs / 33 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     85,30 ft / 26,00 m   4,92 ft / 1,50 m
   Ends:   0,39" / 10 mm     13,12 ft / 4,00 m   4,92 ft / 1,50 m
     26,25 ft / 8,00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 165 ihp / 123 Kw = 11,08 kts
   Range 1 000nm at 8,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
   18 - 24

Cost:
   £0,018 million / $0,072 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 10,6 %
     - Guns: 14 tons, 10,6 %
   Armour: 21 tons, 16,1 %
     - Belts: 8 tons, 6,3 %
     - Armament: 13 tons, 9,8 %
   Machinery: 11 tons, 8,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 53 tons, 41,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 18 tons, 14,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 9,4 %
     - On freeboard deck: 12 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     379 lbs / 172 Kg = 11,7 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37
   Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 9,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,31
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,60

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,463 / 0,467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20,00 %, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
     - Forward deck:   32,00 %, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
     - Aft deck:   30,00 %, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
     - Quarter deck:   18,00 %, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m, 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
     - Average freeboard:      5,96 ft / 1,82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 583 Square feet or 147 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 135 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,90
      - Longitudinal: 2,55
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

This ship is also equipped with sails

12t reserved for sails or different materials

Jefgte · June 15, 2021, 10:31:03 AM

SC6, Byzantine Empire Class Colonies laid down 1919

Displacement:
   6 000 t light; 6 273 t standard; 6 895 t normal; 7 392 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (532,50 ft / 531,50 ft) x 55,12 ft x (16,47 / 17,37 ft)
   (162,30 m / 162,00 m) x 16,80 m x (5,02 / 5,29 m)

Armament:
6 - 7,52" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 214,42lbs / 97,26kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1919 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1919 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 260 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      2 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 526 lbs / 692 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   357,61 ft / 109,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   1,18" / 30 mm   173,88 ft / 53,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,72" / 120 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      2,17" / 55 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm   0,39" / 10 mm      0,39" / 10 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 47 941 shp / 35 764 Kw = 29,07 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 119 tons (20% coal)

Complement:
   377 - 491

Cost:
   £1,299 million / $5,196 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 341 tons, 4,9 %
     - Guns: 341 tons, 4,9 %
   Armour: 1 284 tons, 18,6 %
     - Belts: 642 tons, 9,3 %
     - Armament: 124 tons, 1,8 %
     - Armour Deck: 474 tons, 6,9 %
     - Conning Towers: 43 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 734 tons, 25,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 397 tons, 34,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 895 tons, 13,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 244 tons, 3,5 %
     - Hull above water: 30 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 154 tons
     - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 381 lbs / 3 348 Kg = 34,7 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 14,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,500 / 0,509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m, 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
     - Forward deck:   32,50 %, 19,03 ft / 5,80 m, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
     - Aft deck:   32,50 %, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
     - Quarter deck:   17,50 %, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
     - Average freeboard:      17,08 ft / 5,21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19 519 Square feet or 1 813 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 418 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,87
      - Longitudinal: 1,12
      - Overall: 0,90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for Long Range Marconi
35t for top mast rangefinder
30t for climatisation
30t for additionnal pumps
24t for 8TTx18"
50t for 2x25 minen
5t Hydrophone
5t for 50x90kg DC
40t reserved

TacCovert4 · June 15, 2021, 12:45:44 PM

That is a stout cruiser.

Jefgte · June 15, 2021, 04:13:12 PM

QuoteThat is a stout cruiser.

Byzantium thinks the Parthians are the most likely opponent.
Parthians use 165 and 180 guns on these scout cruisers.
Byzantium uses the 191 and 120 guns on these scout cruisers.
Guns technology "United Kingdom".
For the first time, 191 and 120 twin turrets are available.
To be within the 6000t limit, 3T2x191 are placed "centreline evenly spread".
2T2x120, superfiring to T2x191 fore & aft.
Byzantine scout cruisers make 27kts or 29kts for scouting 21kts divisions of battleships.

TacCovert4 · June 16, 2021, 01:03:41 AM

Oh I wasn't insulting it in the least. In fact it'll be quite a match for the Weapon class, despite not being designed as a direct counter. It's a solid 'Frigate' cruiser, by Aztec parlance.

Jefgte · June 16, 2021, 10:29:53 AM

Rework Antalya seaplane transport class

These seaplane transports are also intended for working with battleships squadrons.
The role of seaplanes on land and on board is to locate and provide informations on enemy forces and their movements.
Assistance in adjusting shots.
Hunt enemy aerial reconnaissance.
-----------------------------
4 seaplanes transports in the Plan (were2)
- 1 for Marmara Fleet
- 1 for Atlantic Fleet
- 1 for Madagascar Fleet
- 1 for Australian Fleet
------------------------------

Antalya - Adana - Azgar - Assiout, Byzantine Empire Sea Planes Transport laid down 1918

Displacement:
   5 226 t light; 5 391 t standard; 6 000 t normal; 6 487 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (511,81 ft / 511,81 ft) x 68,90 ft x (12,30 / 13,04 ft)
   (156,00 m / 156,00 m) x 21,00 m x (3,75 / 3,97 m)

Armament:
2 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
8 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 10 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 373 lbs / 169 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 24 000 shp / 17 904 Kw = 24,50 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 096 tons (20% coal)

Complement:
   340 - 443

Cost:
   £0,659 million / $2,637 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 72 tons, 1,2 %
     - Guns: 72 tons, 1,2 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 0,3 %
     - Armament: 16 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 882 tons, 14,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 997 tons, 49,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 774 tons, 12,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 259 tons, 21,0 %
     - Hull below water: 200 tons
     - Hull above water: 200 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 800 tons
     - Above deck: 59 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22 709 lbs / 10 301 Kg = 431,9 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 3,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 14,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,10
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,484 / 0,494
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 20,01 ft / 6,10 m, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
     - Forward deck:   27,50 %, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Aft deck:   40,00 %, 35,76 ft / 10,90 m, 35,76 ft / 10,90 m
     - Quarter deck:   15,00 %, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
     - Average freeboard:      24,72 ft / 7,53 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 365,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 158 Square feet or 2 151 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 184 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 426 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,91
      - Longitudinal: 2,48
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

misc weight: 1259t
34t for Top Mast Rangefinder
25t for Long Range Marconi
720t for Hangar, repair workshop & 2 aft cranes
80t for 8 Float Planes SHORT 184
400t for Pilots, Air Personnel, armaments, Material & Petrol...

Jefgte · June 16, 2021, 03:26:12 PM

From Rocky

QuoteThe TB carrier's a full combat ship and paid in full.

I agree with Rocky.
If I use Antalya class with the Battleships Squadrons, I must paid in full...

The Rock Doctor · June 16, 2021, 04:05:38 PM

But you're calculating off the normal displacement instead of the light displacement?

Jefgte · June 16, 2021, 04:19:52 PM

QuoteBut you're calculating off the normal displacement instead of the light displacement?

From rules:
Mercantile Standards/Auxiliaries

"A ship in government service may be built to mercantile standards if armament and armor take up no more than 2% of the ship's weight at normal displacement. Such ships could include colliers, transports, survey ships, and others..."

OK , I misread rules. :-[