Parthian vessels 1916 onwards

[The Rock Doctor]

Nice.  I like. 

Definitely concur with the float-fighter idea.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Peering ahead to HY2, 1924,
With the Carrier tech complete, I could immediately throw down a carrier...but
I'm thinking instead I should refit my Experimental carrier to 'trial' new ideas from the tech,
and so lay the carrier and flight deck cruisers in HY1 1925 ,
...which means I need to plan on that BP....

Anyhow that leads me to cruisers
The Artesmia II class is causing concern due to the lack of armor,
So the previously posted Artesmia III will get built

The Royal Neissans are on trials and are well liked. Good speed, good armor, and a heavy 12 gun broadside of the new 180L47.
The concerns are with night combat and close in fighting, even power assisted the two-gun 180mm aren't as fast as hoped.
Unlike the Byzantines, they do not mount a anti-surface secondary, relying on the main guns.

The other problem is that 12 Royal Neissans would take 96,000 tons, while you can build 16 of the Moulek class instead.
For cruisers, hull count matters.  144 gun broadside vs. 96 guns matters also, though due to 2-gun vs 1-gun ROF penalty,
its ~130 vs 96.   So 30% more firepower and 30% fewer hulls.

One area the Mouleks have an advantage is in the 'Chase', as the wing 180mm allow 6 guns to fire forward,
which means their broadside and forward arc have the same # guns bearing.

This means in the closing portions of the engagement the Mouleks would still have 96 guns, but the Royal Neissans would fall to 48.

Also, the single mount & hoist of the Mouleks is under that 70t point where historical comments become unsatisfied about mount rotation speed. 
Which should help in night / fog / rain or small combatant battles.

Moulek II, Parthian Cruiser laid down 1924

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,337 t standard; 7,356 t normal; 8,171 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (523.33 ft / 516.73 ft) x 50.30 ft x (20.77 / 22.45 ft)
   (159.51 m / 157.50 m) x 15.33 m  x (6.33 / 6.84 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 47.0 cal guns - 187.39lbs / 85.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 400 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,580 lbs / 717 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   351.38 ft / 107.10 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -12.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.77" / 45 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 2.17" / 55 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 56,123 shp / 41,868 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,560nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,835 tons

Complement:
   396 - 516

Cost:
   £1.933 million / $7.732 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 438 tons, 6.0 %
      - Guns: 438 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 1,574 tons, 21.4 %
      - Belts: 711 tons, 9.7 %
      - Armament: 152 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 663 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 48 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,849 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,840 tons, 25.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,355 tons, 18.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 299 tons, 4.1 %
      - Hull below water: 27 tons
      - Hull void weights: 60 tons
      - Hull above water: 6 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 87 tons
      - Above deck: 119 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,928 lbs / 2,689 Kg = 33.3 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.477 / 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.73 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forward deck:   36.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Aft deck:   32.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   12.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.98 ft / 5.48 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,963 Square feet or 1,576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 339 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.70
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The Moulek and Pouseki cruisers have prooved successful in service, but cruiser design
has advanced somewhat, with the incorporation of homogenous armor as part of the structure,
and improvements in engines.

While the new Royal Neissans are more powerful, they take 1/3rd more tonnage each,
and there is a perceived need for hulls.

The Moulek II
Fits the newer 180L47 gun in single mount and hoist fittings.
The Forecastle has been extended
with "Y" superimposed like HMS Tiger,
overlooking both the torpedoes and X.

The 180mm guns are laid out as below
Giving 6 guns broadside, 6 forward, and 4 aft.

                 C (E)     TT   TT
A (B)                         FP        (Y)   X
                 D (F)     TT  TT

The Belt and Con armor has been increased to 110mm,
but the gun armor is kept lighter, to keep rotating weight under 70tons.
With 8 seperate guns, the possibility of loosing one does not seem calamatous.

Torpedoes are the new (to Parthia) heavy weight 21" 4t torps in hull galleries with rolldown shutters
An armored deck with sloped external main belt is adopted.

3/(cos 12) = 3.06 = 3.1

Misc. Weight :
60t: Construction Resv

25t : LR Radio
44t : FC
25t : Searchlight tower (NF)
25t : Hulesmeyer

52t : 4T3 21" TT + 4 roll down shutters (4t)
5t : Paravanes
20t : Midships Scout Floatplane
5t : Gunpowder Cat
5t : hanger


HAW
6t : CO2 Compressor AC

HBW
6t : Extra Pumps
6t :  5t extra AvGas, 1t Doublewall tank
15t : Enhanced Hydrophones

Decks :

+6.50 : Forecastle deck
+4.00 : Battery deck/ weather deck
             +2.00 : top armor belt
+1.50 : Armored main deck
-1.00  : 1st deck, , bottom protective deck
              -1.50 : bottom armor belt
-4.50 : Engineering
-5.41 : Keel, double bottom

[Kaiser Kirk]

Another try at the same vessel,
adding 1x 180L47 per broadside with a pair of aft wing guns
That does means 16x Moulek IIC would have 112 gun broadside
vs. the effective 130 of the Royal Neissan

This "costs" 5mm of deck armor and 10mm belt armor.

Both these discard the protective deck in favor of the armor deck,
which allows the thicker sloped belts, but that just compensates for the loss
of the protective deck behind the belt armor.
On the other hand, the chance of shells landing over the belt onto the slope at long range
is eliminated.

The 50mm deck is proof against cruiser-class splinters, but the 55mm should work against the old Byzantine 250mm guns.
The Parthians believe in that size as an excellent long range gun for killing cruisers, and expect others to follow,
so they would like 55-60mm. B
BUT...its not like the Parthian naval designers would know exactly what's needed for game mechanice.
Plus if one starts considering the mild-steel decks...which you should...those numbers change.
So 50mm should be seen as "good enough"

Moulek IIC, Parthian Cruiser laid down 1924

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,379 t standard; 7,356 t normal; 8,138 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (523.33 ft / 516.73 ft) x 50.30 ft x (20.77 / 22.38 ft)
   (159.51 m / 157.50 m) x 15.33 m  x (6.33 / 6.82 m)

Armament:
      10 - 7.09" / 180 mm 47.0 cal guns - 187.39lbs / 85.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 400 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,955 lbs / 887 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.53" / 115 mm   361.71 ft / 110.25 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -12.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.77" / 45 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.92" / 125 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 56,123 shp / 41,868 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,110nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,759 tons

Complement:
   396 - 516

Cost:
   £2.046 million / $8.182 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 540 tons, 7.3 %
      - Guns: 540 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 1,505 tons, 20.5 %
      - Belts: 673 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armament: 186 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 606 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,849 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,828 tons, 24.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,355 tons, 18.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 279 tons, 3.8 %
      - Hull below water: 27 tons
      - Hull void weights: 30 tons
      - Hull above water: 6 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 87 tons
      - Above deck: 129 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,323 lbs / 2,415 Kg = 29.9 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.477 / 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.73 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forward deck:   36.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Aft deck:   34.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.98 ft / 5.48 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,963 Square feet or 1,576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 346 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.70
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

The Moulek IIC
Fits the newer 180L47 gun in single mount and hoist fittings.
The Forecastle has been extended
with "Y" superimposed like HMS Tiger,
overlooking both the torpedoes and X.

The 180mm guns are laid out as below
Giving 7 guns broadside, 6 forward, and 4-6 aft.

            C (E)            G
A (B)                             (Y)   X
            D (F)            H

The Belt and Con armor has been increased to 110mm,
but the gun armor is kept lighter, to keep rotating weight under 70tons.
With 10 seperate guns, the possibility of loosing one does not seem calamatous.

Torpedoes are the new (to Parthia) heavy weight 21" 4t torps
in hull galleries with rolldown shutter.s


Armor Belt is outsloped 12deg
3 /cos (12) = 3.06 = 3.1


Misc. Weight :
30t: Construction Resv

25t : LR Radio
54t : FC
25t : Searchlight tower (NF)
25t : Hulesmeyer

52t : 4T3 21" TT + 4 roll down shutters (4t)
5t : Paravanes
20t : Midships Scout Floatplane
5t : Gunpowder Cat
5t : hanger


HAW
6t : CO2 Compressor AC

HBW
6t : Extra Pumps
6t :  5t extra AvGas, 1t Doublewall tank
15t : Enhanced Hydrophones

Decks :

+6.50 : Forecastle deck
+4.00 : Battery deck/ weather deck
+1.50 : Main Armor deck, top main belt
-1.00  : 1st deck, , bottom protective deck
              -1.50 : bottom armor belt
-4.50 : Engineering
-5.41 : Keel, double bottom

and not a deal breaker

[Kaiser Kirk]

Originally I planned on laying down a carrier-type vessel immediately after finishing the tech.
...which would be 1924.5.

But, considering the 'newness' of the tech, and the Armored-cruiser level of tonnage involved,
for HY1924.5, a more cautious approach seems reasonable.

I think a 'refurbishment' of the experimental carrier....just storyline fluff, but basically
installing versions of the new concepts on the operational ship.

That shoves my planned ship back to 1925....not horrible.

And now for the long rambling blathering I wrote in July :

In 1924 the Parthian Navy views aircraft as a complication in several ways
A) In Daylight good weather with minimal atmospheric iterference 
          - Aerial reconnaisane has potential to
          - Spotting planes unopposed could give one fleet a decisive range advantage
B) Even minimal fighter presence should make steady observation of scout plantss difficult.
          - Launching Floatplane fighter scouts could ward off aerial reconnaisance planes.
          - With Availability rates, at least two should be embarked with each cruiser squadron. 
C) Radio jamming may also be effective as a defense, but can not be planned on.
D) Substantial Aerial Scouting and Fleet Defense may be conducted by floatplanes embarked on warships.
E) Aerial Threats
          -  The primary direct aerial threat consists of large groups of multi-engine craft taking off from land based airstrips or seaplanes from a large anchorage, flying against a relatively fixed target. If torpedo armed, or bomb armed, multiple hits could be obstained simply from proper pattern arrangement.
           -  The secondary threat is single craft, likely attempting to fly along the long axis of the warship, strafing and dropping light bombs.
F) Rapid fire AA guns can destroy planes that stay the course, forcing a disruption and scattering in the pattern.
          -   Strafing planes will be at short range, and their structures vulnerable to massed 15mm MG fire.
          -  The 57 and 90mm guns will provide short and medium range with high rate of fire.  At this time it is unclear which is superior, it is expected the greater lethal burst radius of the 90mm may compensate for the higher ROF of the 57mm, but the 90mm can engage further out, which may be more effective at disruption. Indeed, there is a line of thought the morale effect of the larger and more noticable 90mm bursts may be crucial. 
          - Heavy 165 and 180 guns are unlikely to have sufficient numbers and rate of fire to be useful seperately, but could be useful in a long range barrage role to disrupt flights of torpedo bombers.

G) Primary long range disruption and defence is best served by a fighter ability.
          -  Sentry ships or scout planes aloft would need to give alert of incoming planes. Stationed
          -  Fighters prepared and on standby would be rapidly launched and fly to engage.
          -  The time for fighters to launch and get to position to engage will likely seriously limit the number of fighters that can effectively launch and engage an attack. The limiting factor will be the number of launching platforms.
 

Theories of launch rates very. Practical experience is limited.
At the current time, it is conjectured that between 4 and 8 fighters could be launched with time to effectively disrupt or kill attackers, and harry them after the attack.

One outstanding question is the servicability rates of aircraft embarked on warships.  A conservative number of 50% is considered reasonable, though if land rates were matched, 75% or more could be viable.

Plans are for Aircraft to fly in 4 plane Lances, 16 plane troops and 64 plane squadrons.

For the first vessel, a 16 plane troop, at a planned 75% servicibility
would take 20 aircraft.  Of these, 2 x Fighter Lances, and 2x Scout Lances will be initially embarked. One spare per lance would be embarked.   If fighter launch rates promise to get more than 8 fighters into combat, the number of scouts can be reduced.



And then the ship - A Flight Deck Cruiser

There's a 12500 ton version that goes 30knots, but 500tons for +1 knot seems reasonable,
and then they can keep up with the Zemaka class ACs.

Avio  Aristabara, Parthian Fighter Carrier laid down 1925

Displacement:
   13,000 t light; 13,560 t standard; 14,623 t normal; 15,474 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (556.98 ft / 551.18 ft) x 66.70 ft x (28.71 / 29.94 ft)
   (169.77 m / 168.00 m) x 20.33 m  x (8.75 / 9.13 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 47.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 161 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     1 x 4-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x 4-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm 43.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1925 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides amidships
      2 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,549 lbs / 1,156 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   358.27 ft / 109.20 m   9.25 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -12.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm   0.31" / 8 mm      0.31" / 8 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.38" / 35 mm, Aft 1.38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 98,913 shp / 73,789 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 7,230nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,914 tons

Complement:
   664 - 864

Cost:
   £3.578 million / $14.311 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 596 tons, 4.1 %
      - Guns: 596 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 1,670 tons, 11.4 %
      - Belts: 546 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 242 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 847 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Towers: 36 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 3,211 tons, 22.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,132 tons, 35.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,624 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,391 tons, 16.4 %
      - Hull below water: 483 tons
      - Hull void weights: 55 tons
      - Hull above water: 38 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 1,670 tons
      - Above deck: 145 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,531 lbs / 9,313 Kg = 115.4 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.93

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.485 / 0.492
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.10 ft / 7.65 m,  22.64 ft / 6.90 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  22.64 ft / 6.90 m,  20.18 ft / 6.15 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  36.58 ft / 11.15 m,  36.58 ft / 11.15 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  36.58 ft / 11.15 m,  36.58 ft / 11.15 m
      - Average freeboard:      29.44 ft / 8.97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 205.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,165 Square feet or 2,245 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 538 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 4.64
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Aristabara = spear bearer
Avajam = The blinder
Jatar = Smiter of
Avajan = Smite down/ Slay down
Avajana =Destroy
Patiyajata = To wage Battle

Nav = Ship
Naviya = Fleet
Framatar = Lord of

Maska = Pontoon/ Floating bridge
ayasta = To take over/ conquer / appropriate
Vazarka =Mighty
Hamarama = Battle


Plans are for Aircraft to fly in 4 plane Lances, 16 plane troops and 64 plane squadrons.

For the first vessel, a 16 plane troop, at a planned 75% servicibility
would take 20 aircraft.  Of these, 2 x Fighter Lances, and 2x Scout Lances will be initially embarked. One spare per lance would be embarked.   If fighter launch rates promise to get more than 8 fighters into combat, the number of scouts can be reduced.

Gun Deck : 6.15m
Single  Hanger : +11 = 17.15m
Aircraft : 20 x 80t = 1600t
Needed Waterplane = 1100 m2  x2 for Flight deck cruiser penalty : 2200

A and B turrets are on the same level, but widely spaced. The bow curves up to much for dead on forward fire. However, and moderate ranges, the barrel elevation necessary will allow both to bear directly forward

The "Fore" and "Aft" Cons are really twin islands sited on either side of the forward edge of the flight deck, which cantilevers out over B turret.
A flying bridge arching over the flight deck connects them
for an H shape.


The guns are viewed as useful in bad weather, or night, or if
the planes are out of commision, or if they have already been launched.

Casements mounted along the ships side provide destroyer defense.

57mm guns arae mounted in sponsons along the edge of the flight deck

Quad15mm are mounted high up the con towers, on the seaward side.

The main belt covers from +1.15 to - 1.6 and is outsloped 12 degrees outboard.

2.75/cos(12) = 2.82

Flight Deck : The main flight deck takes 84m (275ft) with a cantilevered forward section overhanging 'C' turret. For the USN, a clear flight deck of at least 234ft was desired.

Misc Wt
Resv : 90

AD
60t FC
25t LR Radio
0t SR Radio
10t SR radio - dedicated A/C control
25t Hulesmeyer device
25t Night fighting searchlights and gear

OD
1600t  20x Fixed Wheel Aircraft
20t  x2  catapults
50t  x2 elevators 25t. One aft, one at rear of Cats

HAW
25t Additional Fire Suppression
13t CO2 Air Compressor AC

HBW
168t  Torpedo Nets
15t    Enhanced Hydro
10t    Sonar
160t  Additional AVGAS (~59733gal avgas, prob 50,000 after tanks)
80t  Additional Munitions
25t  Additional Fire Suppresion
25t  Additional pumps

11.15     Flight Deck
  6.15m   Weather Deck / Hanger Deck
  3.65m   Battery Deck (Casements)
  1.15m   Armor Deck, Top Main belt.
- 1.35m 
            -1.6m  Bottom main belt
- 3.85m
- 6.35m  Engineering
-7.23m   Doublebottom.

[The Rock Doctor]

Interesting approach.  Why include sonar and hydrophones?

[Kaiser Kirk]

Interesting approach.  Why include sonar and hydrophones?

Hydrophones because when the ship is at anchor, or lower speed, it can pick up screws quite a ways away.
Which should both guard against nighttime cruiser attacks, MTB/DD charges and subs.
You see them on a fair number of my vessels beyond the dedicated ASW for that reason
- more ears, and surface raider detection.

...not sure why I put sonar on it.
Quite possibly as the Parthians have a new toy, but aren't sure where it will be useful,
and so are putting it on lots of things to find out.
Kinda like the war tubas that sprouted on my designs for a little bit then went away.

[Kaiser Kirk]

As a historical curiosity, I know some US Carriers were fitted with Sonar for some reason....poking about it looks like some members of the Essex class and then the Kitty Hawk class.

That may have been in the back of my mind as well,
but I really am inclined to think I kinda just threw it on as 'new shiny , see if its useful' that I mentioned.

[Kaiser Kirk]

And now for something that I really really don't expect to build

I'm currently trying to hold my battleship size to 39000 tons,
which is 8 HY of building, though I'd prefer about 34-35,000 tons.

That # hulls vs. capability tradeoff means
that once I have the hull, engines, and armor, it's usually
fairly cheap to creep the tonnage up 1/5th and fit more guns.
So the 39,000 ship is far better armed than the 34,000.

I was looking at a design series of mid-1920s ships
over 10 designs the Asi/Imulhu series evolved as a low-mid 40s ship.
Larger than I want, but part of that was exploring upping the fleet speed
to 23-26 knots.

I was musing about the 'max battleship' and what that would 'cost'.
The 'Mastodon' was the result.
and the answer is... it costs "way to much".

The largest guns in current Parthian development are a 390mm and a 435mm,
which bracket the 16" & 16.5" seen in foreign navies... so I fitted the larger.

Speed I pushed to 30knots, very unParthian.

Armor is suitably Parthian.

Mastodon, Parthian Battleship laid down 1926

Displacement:
   56,000 t light; 59,415 t standard; 62,487 t normal; 64,944 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (853.02 ft / 846.46 ft) x 114.83 ft (Bulges 124.67 ft) x (31.50 / 32.64 ft)
   (260.00 m / 258.00 m) x 35.00 m (Bulges 38.00 m)  x (9.60 / 9.95 m)

Armament:
      9 - 17.13" / 435 mm 47.0 cal guns - 3,185.68lbs / 1,445.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.72" / 120 mm 44.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
      20 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 900 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1926 Model
     10 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      24 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 29,908 lbs / 13,566 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.3" / 389 mm   550.20 ft / 167.70 m   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -20.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.99" / 76 mm   550.20 ft / 167.70 m   30.64 ft / 9.34 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.35" / 9 mm   564.30 ft / 172.00 m   22.64 ft / 6.90 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   19.7" / 500 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      16.1" / 410 mm
   2nd:   2.17" / 55 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      1.38" / 35 mm
   3rd:   0.51" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 6.50" / 165 mm
   Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm  Quarter deck: 5.31" / 135 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.72" / 120 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 200,359 shp / 149,467 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,220nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,529 tons

Complement:
   1,975 - 2,568

Cost:
   £18.178 million / $72.711 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5,064 tons, 8.1 %
      - Guns: 5,064 tons, 8.1 %
   Armour: 21,139 tons, 33.8 %
      - Belts: 6,183 tons, 9.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,867 tons, 3.0 %
      - Bulges: 167 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armament: 4,645 tons, 7.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 8,117 tons, 13.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 160 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 6,414 tons, 10.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,395 tons, 35.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,487 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 988 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull below water: 56 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 81 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 70 tons
      - Above deck: 631 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     84,489 lbs / 38,324 Kg = 33.6 x 17.1 " / 435 mm shells or 14.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 7.4 ft / 2.3 m
   Roll period: 19.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.658 / 0.660
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.87 ft / 8.80 m,  28.87 ft / 8.80 m
      - Forward deck:   24.00 %,  28.87 ft / 8.80 m,  28.87 ft / 8.80 m
      - Aft deck:   41.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 75,007 Square feet or 6,968 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 239 lbs/sq ft or 1,165 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Armor Scheme:
Only 1 deck level aft and 2 deck levels forward are unprotected, giving a great reserve of bouyancy.

The 130mm main deck caps the belt armor system and is meant to stop shells at all reasonable ranges. This is backed by a substantial splinter deck.

An exterior 75mm decapping plate also serves to defeat HE shells and bombs.

Underwater, below the exterior belt, is the exterior bulge.

The interior belt is sloped at 20 degrees and is 330mm above the waterline, tapering once 1m below the waterline down to 230mmm.

The TDS rises behind the main belt, sealing to the bottom of the splinter deck. The TDS, with it's 3x 19mm bulkheads is expected to be splinter proof on it's own. The TDS also provides a firm base of structural support for the main belt. The Fact the innermost bulkhealds rises behind the belt gives a flooding limit even if the belt is pushed in.

The splinter deck is a 35mm protective deck meant to stop high order splinters from either the belt or deck from penetrating to the vitals.

Belt Armor Math:

The exterior shell is a 75mm homogeneous decapping plate from -2.6 to +2.6m high.
That is 5.2 x 75 = 390


The interior belt is inclined outwards at 20degrees and tapers
Starting at 330mm above water from +2.6m to -1m below waterline, then
From 1m to -3m it tapers to 230mm.

The Main Belt Math :
1188  =  (2.6 - -1) x 330mm
460 = (-1 to -3) x 230mm
100 = (-1 to -3) x 1/2  x (330-230)
= 1738
cos 20
= 1633.1857
= 1633.19
+390 for the Decapping plate
=2023.2
divided over 5.2m = 389 average thickness





The entire inner belt is outsloped

The Bulge goes to the bottom of the exterior plate.

The TDS rises to 0.2m above WL, sealing to the bottom of the splinter deck.

Decks
5.0  Weather Deck - unarmored
2.6  Battery Deck, 130mm Armor
0.2  Top Protective Splinter Deck, 35mm Armor, Top TDS.
-2.3 Bottom edge Splinter Deck
-2.6  Bottom Main Belt.

-5.8 
-8.8 Engineering
-9.5 Keel, Double Bottom


Misc Wt
150t Resv

546t  FC
25   LR Radio
0     SR Radio
10   Air SR Radio
25   Hulesmeyer
25   Night Fight tower


5t  Paravanes
40t 2x Scout
10t 2x CAT
25t Ext Fire Suppression

25t Ext Fire Suppression
56t Climate Control

56t Enhanced Pumps

[Jefgte]

Tillman Battleship for Parthians.

;)

[Kaiser Kirk]

Tillman Battleship for Parthians.

;)

Exactly

[Kaiser Kirk]

Just as a trivia note : Originally for the Mastodon I wanted a 12x435, which would certainly be a scary vessel .  For the same size I could have a slower 23-26knt version, but even at a 40m beam the recoil on a 12x435 is too high.  SS gives a warning over 1.0, and while I suppose you could just commit to not firing all at once, I like to keep under that level....which given how many barrels I fit can sometimes be a design consideration.

[Kaiser Kirk]

The core of this musing is ... how valuable is additional speed if it drives your seakeeping under 1.0 ?
I've been of the opinion that when sea state means wave height > ave freeboard, then that
seakeeping should enter into things, and limit speed.

To babble onwards :

The next vessels to be rebuilt are to be the first of my All-big-gun ships.
The Gilgamesh and Enki classes will fit the 333L43 guns and boost deck armor, so that
they will be fairly doughty 2nd line battleships.

The Asdar class of ACs can also use updating.
The Byzantines have a wide range of ACs, which are countered by the 8 ships of the Parthian Asdar and Zemaka classes, each with 8x 255mm.  The Zemaka introduced the 255L47, a much more powerful gun/shell combination than the old 255L50, and with the more modern turrets should fire faster.

The cheapest refurbishment of the Asdar would be just regunning with the more modern 255L47, 120L43 and AA.
That would cost $5.76 and 1.55bp.....very affordable.

So it's the opportunity cost of re-engining.

Cost to also Re-engine is the new engine and fuel
Old engine : 3233           (currently 27knots)
Old bunkerage : 3148      (currently 8800nm @ 12knts)

1925 engines
28knots geared steam turbines : 2405 with seakeeping 1.01
16 knots x 8000nm : 3147t

So that would be +$6.38, +2.41 BP   to get 28 knots.....

1925 engines
29knots geared steam turbines : 2772, but seakeeping drops to 0.87
16 knots x 8000nm : 3147t

So that costs +$7.12, +2.77bp

The advantage is that matches the faster Byzantine ACs and gives 2 knots over the older ones, ...in decent weather.

These both free up large amounts of tonnage which could allow more deck armor
+20mm laminated on main protective deck : +$0.42 , +0.42bp
This boosts the effective citadel deck armor to 82mm, very very respectable for an AC.

Conclusion :
I am very tempted to just regun the ships. Perhaps come back and reengine later.
The 28 knots does not seem worthwhile.
...I could do 28 knots and add a TDS... but that is even more expensive


The 29 knots does, but I'm curious how others view that seakeeping (0.93) on a ship with 5.72m average freeboard.

What is the group thoughts on sub-par seakeeping at top speed ?

Should it be heavily penalized always, or just during bad weather ?

From my reading, most of the time in combat, actual speed was kept a couple knots below top, to allow +/- speed to maintain station.

I am inclined to think the additional speed is worth the cost and helps keep the ship relevant longer.
But since I am not sure I can fit that in my schedule, just do the guns right now.

[The Rock Doctor]

It might be a situational utility to have the extra knot - you retain a bit more speed if you lose some machinery to damage or accident, and you've got the extra speed if giving battle in optimal steaming conditions.  Her seakeeping at lower speeds should still be fine otherwise.

However, yes, it is a pricey addition and might depend on whether the rest of the ship is worth the effort.

[Jefgte]

...The 29 knots does, but I'm curious how others view that seakeeping (0.93) on a ship with 5.72m average freeboard...

=>Indicate your seakeeping speed at 1.00.

Byzance raises the forward freeboard by half a deck (1.2m max) like trawlers. This helps maintain better seakeeping.

"Bulwark" (Pavois in french)

[Kaiser Kirk]

Byzance raises the forward freeboard by half a deck (1.2m max) like trawlers. This helps maintain better seakeeping.

Generally I figure that 1.5m is the limit for the bow if you want to fire at 0 deflection over the bow, as ~1.5m seems to be the height the trunnions on foredeck turrets compared to sailors.
So you will see most Parthian ships rise that distance.

However, yes, it is a pricey addition and might depend on whether the rest of the ship is worth the effort.

The Byzantines make the primary Opfor, and continue to build vessels in this class.
I look at the other player navies as well, and against many, they would be a mismatch that would require much,much bigger vessels to be committed to hunting down.
If I can neutralize a battlecruiser for months on end, that has some value.  Further, with the 255L47, I can kill some of those BCs at close-medium range (night/weather) or even long (deck).
So the Asdar are still  very decent vessels, well armed and armored, and I think more worth the investment than the earlier ACs - who's role is reduced to territorial, or battleline screen.