Parthian vessels 1916 onwards

Kaiser Kirk · January 07, 2023, 03:29:23 PM

While this tries to see how small I can manage a reasonable motor gunboat.
....I think it's decently tiny

MGB-1, Pathian Motor Gun Boat I laid down 1926

Displacement:
   60 t light; 73 t standard; 74 t normal; 75 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (64.34 ft / 62.34 ft) x 15.58 ft x (4.10 / 4.16 ft)
   (19.61 m / 19.00 m) x 4.75 m x (1.25 / 1.27 m)

Armament:
1 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal gun - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 190 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 - 4.65" / 118 mm 21.0 cal gun - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 190 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 80 lbs / 36 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.59" / 15 mm     40.52 ft / 12.35 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.31" / 8 mm        -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.31" / 8 mm        -
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.39" / 10 mm
   Forecastle: 0.31" / 8 mm Quarter deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 0.59" / 15 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 118 shp / 88 Kw = 10.00 kts
   Range 400nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   12 - 16

Cost:
   £0.018 million / $0.073 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 9 tons, 12.3 %
     - Guns: 9 tons, 12.3 %
   Armour: 22 tons, 30.3 %
     - Belts: 11 tons, 14.3 %
     - Armament: 6 tons, 8.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 5 tons, 7.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 4 tons, 5.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 21 tons, 29.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 14 tons, 18.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 4.1 %
     - Hull below water: 1 tons
     - Hull void weights: 1 tons
     - Hull above water: 0 tons
     - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     171 lbs / 78 Kg = 7.7 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.61
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 7.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 38 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.652
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 7.90 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 19
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 8.69 ft / 2.65 m, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m, 7.55 ft / 2.30 m
     - Average freeboard:      7.64 ft / 2.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 744 Square feet or 69 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 94 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53
      - Longitudinal: 17.82
      - Overall: 0.75
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Intended as a Coastal/ Riverine gunboat
as an alternate to the 'Dragonfly' style casement vessel.

The advantage of the casement is all ammunition handling
can occur under armor, but above water, allowing
the draft to be very shallow.

For this version, the goal is to dispense with the
armored casement.

The desire is fore/aft gun basal ring gun mounts, where
shells can be safely fed from below decks via stairs
and crews handing shells up.
This also requires keeping shell weights down.

TDS defaults as 1.2m high,
which I take to mean Engineering is at that level,
while Keel is 1.26 - a very flat bottom.

For a 2.5m (8ft) deck height, that puts +1.3 as the minimum height,
but I like engineering to be at least 3.5m
so 2.3 is the Main deck.

Length is constrained to allow 2 to be constructed in a 50ft dock at once.

Armor :
Main belt is +2.3 to - 0.50

The Fore / Quarter deck are protective decks
while the citadel has the armor deck capping the belt.

Engineering :
8knots cruise ensures that even fast river currents can be easily over come.
This only takes 35shp.
10 knots is 88shp, or 250%.

Oil sprayed coal is relied on, as wood can be used in a pinch.

To allow maximum manuevers with differential propellors,
turbogenerators are fitted.

Reserve : 1t

AD
0.9t - FC
0t - SR Radio

OD

HAW
0.1t - CO2 Compressor AC

HBW
1t - Turbogenerator

The Rock Doctor · January 07, 2023, 04:43:55 PM

I like it. Definitely a handy little thing to have available.

Kaiser Kirk · January 07, 2023, 04:49:00 PM

Exploration of using the Cruiser 8000t , 0.9 limit to build a little carrier.
Basically winds up similar but superior to HMS Hermes,
though to be fair. pretty sure that HMS Hermes was inefficient.

- 8160 standard vs. 10,850 tons
- same belt, 50% deck
- more armament
- 12 x 130 vs 6x 140
- 25% more airgroup - 25 vs 20
- 1 knot faster , much much greater range

Falconeer, Parthian Fighter Carrier laid down 1925

Displacement:
   7,840 t light; 8,160 t standard; 9,148 t normal; 9,938 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (524.93 ft / 518.37 ft) x 52.49 ft x (24.77 / 26.33 ft)
   (160.00 m / 158.00 m) x 16.00 m x (7.55 / 8.03 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 174 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1925 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides amidships
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,095 lbs / 497 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   336.94 ft / 102.70 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm   181.40 ft / 55.29 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.38" / 35 mm, Aft 1.38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 36,688 shp / 27,369 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,778 tons

Complement:
   466 - 607

Cost:
   £1.672 million / $6.687 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 238 tons, 2.6 %
     - Guns: 238 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 952 tons, 10.4 %
     - Belts: 410 tons, 4.5 %
     - Armament: 60 tons, 0.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 456 tons, 5.0 %
     - Conning Towers: 26 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,191 tons, 13.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,063 tons, 33.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,308 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,395 tons, 26.2 %
     - Hull below water: 1,060 tons
     - Hull void weights: 24 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,032 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 55 tons
     - Above deck: 224 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,626 lbs / 6,634 Kg = 218.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.475 / 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.87 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 25.10 ft / 7.65 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      28.35 ft / 8.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 214.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,729 Square feet or 1,647 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 352 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.73
      - Longitudinal: 5.42
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Goal is simply a fighter launch platform

1 Flight (16) of Fighters, with 1 flying spare per talon of 4 for a total of 20 fighters.

One talons (1x 4) of scouts, with 1 flying spare per talon, for a total of 5 scouts

25 planes = 2000t
Single hanger = 1625m2

Sufficient speed to keep up with the Stormbringer Class,
with high cruise speed to move around steaming formation as needed.

The result more closely remembers HMS Hermes

Misc Wt :
Reserve : 24t

AD
24t - FC
25t - LR Radio
0t - SR Radio
25t - Night Fighting / Searchlights
25t - Hulesmeyer proximity detector
10t - Dedicated AC channel
10t - Squadron Plot room
100t - 'H" superstructure

OD
5t - Paravanes
50t - 2x hydraulic catapults

HAW
1000 Airgroup
8t - CO2 Compressor AC
16t - Forced Fume extraction
8t - Additional Fire Suppression

HBW
1000 Airgroup
8t - Additional fire suppression
36 - 30t Avgas in 6t doublewall tanks
8t- Additional fighter/scout munitions
8t - Additional pumps

Decks
9.0 : Flight Deck
6.5 : Weather Deck
4.0 : Battery Deck (Casements)
1.5 : Armor Deck Main Deck
-1.0 :
-5.5 : Engineering
-6.45 : Double bottom
-7.55 : Keel

The Rock Doctor · January 07, 2023, 05:14:57 PM

This is the size I'm playing with for my next type, though I stuck with 1.00 HS in that case.

Not that it matters for design purposes, but my airgroup is completely opposite; the ship is focused on providing scouting for anti-raider and trade protection forces.

Kaiser Kirk · January 07, 2023, 07:20:06 PM

At this early period,
between night and adverse weather - either high winds or low ceilings - scout planes are seen as supplemental for search.
Adding catapult launched ones to cruisers seems the best choice.

However there is a desire to blind the enemy as best possible- either for spotting purposes, or fleet intercept purposes, etc.
So you're seeing the Parthians add float fighters - to contest that spotting regime - and looking to put carrier fighters up there.

Hence the flight deck cruisers - to work with scout cruisers and deliver fighters to the scouting fight.
Hopefully in any engagement, I'll control aerial spotting.

Jefgte · January 08, 2023, 12:56:10 AM

IMO

Your Falconeer is too short. Reduce draft and increase length.

Kaiser Kirk · January 08, 2023, 11:00:20 AM

So you are correct.. in some ways.

Flight deck here is 126.4m, which is short.

IF I wanted to launch monoplane bombers off the ship, that would be an issue.
Wingloading becomes very important for takeoff / landing speeds and distances.

But for a 1925 design, when lightly loaded biplanes are the only plane around,
and I really just want to quickly launch fighters...
Though it does have the two hydraulic catapults.

The future of the ship would find it lacking, more of a WWII Escort Carrier.... albeit faster.
Actually, looking it up, the current Flight deck is just 3m more than the Long Island class Flight deck.
That could be partly corrected by extending the flight deck over the bow.

Fighters and scouts should be flyable, though bombers would need to be catapulted.
monoplane Torpedo bombers would be inoperable, but Swordfish style would likely still fly.

As a secondary note :
From reading Friedman's book, somewhere in the text when he was discussing USN Flight deck cruisers, he states that For the USN, a clear flight deck of at least 234ft was desired.
Now that was for mid-20s designs, and equates to 71.3m
but this ship has 126.4m , so easily exceeds that.

It would not be the most satisfactory carrier, and would be limited,
but limited is the design goal.

The Rock Doctor · January 08, 2023, 11:28:41 AM

The size becomes an obstacle to frontline combat ops but as you note, it remains viable as an escort carrier, training platform, plane ferry, and so forth. To my thinking, without the impetus of a naval arms limitation treaty interfering in carrier development, this is a fairly intuitive next step after one tests out the initial experimental carriers.

Kaiser Kirk · January 09, 2023, 10:33:10 PM

So that version of Falconeer was exploring the 0.9 cruiser hull,
this is a 1.0 version, which also adds a great deal more fuel capacity,
making it more suitable for Pacific operations if called on,

Basically, I'm trying to push a fleet speed of 14 knots,
and for the units that have to move around the fleet, 16 knots.
While moving ranges from 5600-6600 or so to 8000-9000.

I think Rocky's right and this may become a Training Carrier down the road,
or like Hermes, may find a watery grave.

Falconeer, Parthian Fighter Carrier laid down 1925

Displacement:
   8,498 t light; 8,838 t standard; 10,244 t normal; 11,369 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (524.93 ft / 518.37 ft) x 55.77 ft x (22.97 / 24.94 ft)
   (160.00 m / 158.00 m) x 17.00 m x (7.00 / 7.60 m)

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 174 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1925 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.19lbs / 2.81kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides amidships
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
     2 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,091 lbs / 495 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   336.94 ft / 102.70 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm   181.40 ft / 55.29 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   1.38" / 35 mm        -
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.38" / 35 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.38" / 35 mm, Aft 1.38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 40,345 shp / 30,097 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 8,900nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,531 tons

Complement:
   508 - 661

Cost:
   £1.802 million / $7.206 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 238 tons, 2.3 %
     - Guns: 238 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 1,016 tons, 9.9 %
     - Belts: 414 tons, 4.0 %
     - Armament: 60 tons, 0.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 514 tons, 5.0 %
     - Conning Towers: 28 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,310 tons, 12.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,557 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,746 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,377 tons, 23.2 %
     - Hull below water: 1,063 tons
     - Hull void weights: 40 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,035 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 15 tons
     - Above deck: 224 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,144 lbs / 9,137 Kg = 300.5 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 25.10 ft / 7.65 m, 22.64 ft / 6.90 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      28.35 ft / 8.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 221.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,989 Square feet or 1,857 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 153 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 403 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 4.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Goal is simply a fighter launch platform

1 Flight (16) of Fighters, with 1 flying spare per talon of 4 for a total of 20 fighters.

One talons (1x 4) of scouts, with 1 flying spare per talon, for a total of 5 scouts

25 planes = 2000t
Single hanger = 1625m2

Sufficient speed to keep up with the Stormbringer Class,
with high cruise speed to move around steaming formation as needed.

The result more closely remembers HMS Hermes

Misc Wt :
Reserve : 24t

AD
24t - FC
25t - LR Radio
0t - SR Radio
25t - Night Fighting / Searchlights
25t - Hulesmeyer proximity detector
10t - Dedicated AC channel
10t - Squadron Plot room
100t - 'H" superstructure

OD
5t - Paravanes
10t - 2x hydraulic catapults

HAW
1000 Airgroup
9t - CO2 Compressor AC
19t - Forced Fume extraction
9t - Additional Fire Suppression

HBW
1000 Airgroup
9t - Additional fire suppression
36 - 30t Avgas in 6t doublewall tanks
9t- Additional fighter/scout munitions
9t - Additional pumps

Decks
9.0 : Flight Deck
6.5 : Weather Deck
4.0 : Battery Deck (Casements)
1.5 : Armor Deck Main Deck
-1.0 :
-5.5 : Engineering
-6.38 : Double bottom
-7.00 : Keel

Kaiser Kirk · January 24, 2023, 07:20:23 PM

My entry in the 'its too short' 3000 club...
ok 3600, but 1.0 hull.

I made it short and beamy with a high BC to maximize flight deck area.
This allows 17 planes.
So I put on 17 planes.

Destroyer armament,
NO armor

just enough speed to keep up with the battleline in sprints
LOTs of fuel so it can cruise at high speed and chase the wind.

I can't see this being of much use 10, 15 years later, except as a trainer.

Quote
Bazdari, Parthian Fighter / Training Carrier laid down 1924

Displacement:
   3,550 t light; 3,699 t standard; 4,552 t normal; 5,235 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (261.90 ft / 255.09 ft) x 62.34 ft x (15.58 / 17.56 ft)
   (79.83 m / 77.75 m) x 19.00 m x (4.75 / 5.35 m)

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.19lbs / 2.81kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
     4 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 334 lbs / 151 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.31" / 8 mm        -
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

- Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 13,888 shp / 10,360 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,730nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,536 tons

Complement:
   276 - 360

Cost:
   £0.641 million / $2.564 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 70 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 70 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 14 tons, 0.3 %
     - Armament: 14 tons, 0.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 457 tons, 10.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,526 tons, 33.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,003 tons, 22.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,482 tons, 32.6 %
     - Hull below water: 680 tons
     - Hull void weights: 35 tons
     - Hull above water: 680 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
     - Above deck: 77 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,520 lbs / 5,679 Kg = 186.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.643 / 0.656
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.09 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 246.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,103 Square feet or 1,124 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 176 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 341 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.74
      - Longitudinal: 14.87
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Designed to keep up with the battleline,
but tail shortly behind to launch fighters or scouts.

The 130mm are fore/aft of the island, meant for cross deck fire.

At the corners of the flight deck are 57mm AA
and quad 15mm.

Airgroup : 16+1 : 17*65 = 1105
80*17= 1360

Misc wt
7t - FC
25t - LR Radio
0t - SR Radio
10t - Dedicated AG SR Radio
25t - Hulesmeyer
10t - Squadron Plot Room

OD
5t - Paravanes
5t - Hydraulic CAT

HAW
3t - CO2 Compressor AC

HBW

Airgroup : 1360 : 680/680 = 17 AC (16 + 1 spare)

Jefgte · January 25, 2023, 12:41:02 AM

Quote...I made it short and beamy with a high BC to maximize flight deck area.
This allows 17 planes.
So I put on 17 planes...

Flight deck area is 80x20.
It's a transporter. At best, the ship could have a catapult.

TacCovert4 · January 25, 2023, 05:32:41 AM

At the moment it could launch. But only because a lot of biplane of this Era had such a low takeoff speed that her steaming into a brisk wind would make takeoff speed near 0.

Kaiser Kirk · January 25, 2023, 08:44:24 AM

It does have a Catapult,
but given the length of flying off deck on early carriers, Tac's correct.
Simply look at the early 'flying off platforms' on various warships turrets,
or the forecastle length of USS Birmingham - where Ely took off.
Actually that ship was apparently 3750 tons, scaling the picture, that forecastle was about 30m.

I would think flying off and landing operations could not be done at the same time.
You need the entire deck to land.
Given a roughly 30m need to take off, and a roughly 71m need to land, then a crash barrier.
minimal length would be 101m, but you would want a space in between for aircraft handling and an elevator/ Ramp beyond the crash barrier.

Despite the 'cheap' cost, I find myself reluctant to build such a vessel
for 3 reasons
1) Future obsolescence
2) No armor, poor guns...how un...un Parthian.
3) No precedence of such a small carrier even being considered for regular construction.

The Rock Doctor · January 25, 2023, 04:19:41 PM

Fifty years from now, it'll be Parthia installing anti-ship cruise missiles under its carrier flight decks.

Kaiser Kirk · January 25, 2023, 05:17:34 PM

Biplanes,
Helicopters
BAE Harriers
THEN
VLS missile cells

Long potential service life !