Parthian vessels 1916 onwards

[Kaiser Kirk]

*USS Enterprise encounters The Parthian Web.*

But yeah, it's probably fine for me.

ROFL
8p

[Kaiser Kirk]

A lovely downpour argued for an afternoon retreat to the B&B,
which gave me time to work on both 1923.5 and a long long overdue tentative build plan for the next couple turns,

Hopefully that will mean I stop laying down more ships than I can actually afford to build.
...probably not.

One standout need was the reconstruction of the Rohk class.   They are in my catalog,
Twenty years old, they could be scrapped, or kept as second class battleships....or very slow armored cruisers.
Either way they would tag along with heavier units, or serve in rear areas of lower threat.

For the BP cost, it's less than a new light cruiser, but yields a more capable unit.

Here is the cost breakdown followed by the rebuilt vessel:

1923 Rohk Reconstruction :

Resembling the OTL Hapsburg class, the Rohks are predreads but are the size of armored cruisers.

The reconstructed Rohks are expected to operate as 2nd rate battleships- able to defeat any non-dreadnaught. Against dreadnaughts, the Parthians would prefer night battle to restrict range to where they were efficacious.

The choice of 24 knots gives a slight margin over older Byzantine capital ships, and matches the older IJN vessels, but ultimately they are expected to bolster 20-knot dreadnaughts on distant stations.

The 1912 300L41.5 was developed to rearm the Tortoise and Rohk classes.
While similar performance to their existing gun, the belt penetration is slightly better, and the deck penetration improved, and it simplifies supply arrangements to have both classes fire the same.

More importantly it moves from an 1895 tech to a 1910 tech, which has vast improvements in propellant, breeches, gearing, hoists, flashtightness...etc. 

The 180L47s are expected to provide the spotting "ladders" for the guns to fire at.

Bulges are added for a tiny bit of standoff distance for torpedoes and mines, and then additional deck armor layered on.

Technically, 45mm MORE deck armor could get layered on, but that seems... excessive for the design purpose.

Cost :
base : 0.2 *14.5 = 2.9

Armament & Machinery :BP cost = (tonnage/1000); $ cost = twice the BP cost.
1121 +1531 = 2652

Armor & Functional Misc Wt. : BP cost = (tonnage/1000); $ cost is equal to BP cost.
286+1170+836 : 2292


Hull Fittings and Equipment :No BP cost; $ cost is equal to (tonnage/5000)
1162

Fuel, Ammunition & Stores : No BP cost; $ cost is (tonnage/2000).
1921+610+150


subtotals :
$2.9
2.652bp , $5.304
2.292bp, $2.292
      $0.2324
      $1.345

Total : 4.944 BP,  $12.0734

Details :


Old Engine : 3247
Old Bunker : 1921
Old Main Mag : 202

Replace 305L40 with 300L41.5  395kg , 180L45 with 180L47, 60 with 57, add 15mm
Weapons : 1121
Armor : 201+74+7+4 : 286
Mag : 610 (new main 201)

old hull : 4509
Add 1m hull bulges (13mm skin), cleaver bow : 140t armor
New hull  : 5671 (+1162)

New 1923 Turboelectric Engines : 1531
New Bunkers (oil)  : 1921

(TurboGenerators  : 371t)

Delete underwater torpedo tubes

old Armor Deck : 1224
Armor : Laminate armor onto existing decks (80% eff)
Forward deck : +20mm (+16mm)
Upper AD : +20mm (+16mm)
Main AD : +50mm (+40mm)
Stern Deck : +50mm (+40mm)
New Armor Deck : 2394
Difference : 1170t


Total Vertical : (55+40)+(25+16)/2= 115.5
Waterline Citadel : 320 + ((55+40)*1.5)/2) = 391.25

Misc Weight: 936 total, 786 functional, 150t non-functional
Reserve :150

AD:
113t : Fire Control
30t   : Searchlights (NF)
25t   : Hulesmeyer
25t   : LR Radio

OD:
5t : Paravanes


HAW:
17t : CO2 Air Compressor AC
25t : Extra Fire Extinguishers


HBW:
10t   : Batteries
30t   : 2 Enhanced Hydrophone Stations
25t   : Additional Pumps
148t : Torpedo Nets
383t : Turboelectric Generator

Rohk, Parthia battleship laid down 1900 (Engine 1923)

Displacement:
   15,867 t light; 16,835 t standard; 17,902 t normal; 18,756 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492.13 ft / 485.56 ft) x 76.28 ft (Bulges 82.84 ft) x (26.90 / 28.03 ft)
   (150.00 m / 148.00 m) x 23.25 m (Bulges 25.25 m)  x (8.20 / 8.54 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.81" / 300 mm 41.5 cal guns - 870.83lbs / 395.00kg shells, 104 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 7.09" / 180 mm 47.0 cal guns - 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 168 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1921 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 7,559 lbs / 3,429 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   315.03 ft / 96.02 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ends:   2.56" / 65 mm   170.51 ft / 51.97 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Upper:   6.50" / 165 mm   242.78 ft / 74.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.51" / 13 mm   321.59 ft / 98.02 m   23.00 ft / 7.01 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.8" / 325 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   6.50" / 165 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      1.38" / 35 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 5.91" / 150 mm
   Forecastle: 1.77" / 45 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.60" / 320 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,817 shp / 34,180 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 6,156nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,921 tons

Complement:
   773 - 1,005

Cost:
   £1.233 million / $4.934 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,121 tons, 6.3 %
      - Guns: 1,121 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 6,584 tons, 36.8 %
      - Belts: 2,751 tons, 15.4 %
      - Bulges: 140 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armament: 1,113 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,394 tons, 13.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 186 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,531 tons, 8.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,645 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,035 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 986 tons, 5.5 %
      - Hull below water: 596 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 42 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 5 tons
      - Above deck: 193 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,370 lbs / 15,136 Kg = 40.5 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.579 / 0.582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.04 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  11.29 ft / 3.44 m,  11.29 ft / 3.44 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  19.49 ft / 5.94 m,  19.49 ft / 5.94 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  19.49 ft / 5.94 m,  19.49 ft / 5.94 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  11.29 ft / 3.44 m,  11.29 ft / 3.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.39 ft / 4.69 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,562 Square feet or 2,468 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 781 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.08
      - Longitudinal: 2.08
      - Overall: 1.15
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[The Rock Doctor]

As pre-dreadnoughts go, she'd be pretty kick-ass.

[TacCovert4]

I agree.  And there are enough big cruisers running around that an updated Pre-dread still has utility.  But in what is now basically the mid-20s....Predreads are starting to get pretty long in the tooth.  Absolutely even upgraded, she's not going to survive an engagement with a dreadnought just one generation newer.....that's also been updated.  Against anything constructed in the last 5 years, it's more an execution than a fight.

[Jefgte]

...24 kts will allow them to navigate close to large BBs (20kts) and provide protection against cruisers and destroyers.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Yes, if these find themselves up against a modern dreadnaught alone, things have not gone to plan :)
Far more as Jefgte says.

[The Rock Doctor]

Yes, if these find themselves up against a modern dreadnaught alone, things have not gone to plan :)
Far more as Jefgte says.

Well, not your plan, at least.

[TacCovert4]

Oh quite.  It's basically a transition from Battleship to Coast Defense Ship.  Just a 'fast' CDS by CDS Standards.  Good for defending an estuary or other colonial area against cruiser raids, or supporting a relatively slow battleline, which matches up to the Eastern Med/Arabian Sea battle lines. Also good as a 'heavy convoy escort' like the R-class did against the Kriegsmarine, not enough ship to realistically defeat a modern battleship, but enough ship that it could stand a reasonable chance of going down while dealing damage.....which would force a raider to either avoid the contact, or be forced home for repairs after the fight.

Comparing it to my own ships, as it's a simple base of comparison for me, the update wouldn't fare well against an Implacable (would have done pretty well against a Veracruz, but those are all razor blades now thanks to Rome).  A Sultan Ali could kill it, but would probably take enough damage to be forced to at least do pierside repairs.  A Renown or Revenge wouldn't want to fight it unless necessary, due to likelihood of needing a drydocking afterwards, and about the same with the other Razee classes of 'super cruiser'.

[Kaiser Kirk]

More or less.

A couple other factors
A) while the NPCs are passive by design, I think "storyline" wise we should consider them as well.  However, they are somewhat limited by nature. In times of strife, these ships in the rear areas could increase the 'cost' of trying a fait accomplie.

B) Unlike the UK, most of us do not have many spare capital ships lying around. While someone could assign a battle cruiser or DN to hunt convoys, that removes a much bigger unit from the battle lanes. If one or two of these can take ships twice their tonnage out of main theater for months, that's not bad for something costing a light cruiser in BP to upgrade.

C) Between the belt and deck, I a hoping they will be 'tough out', requiring most opponents to be at a range there's at least a chance of a main battery pen.
They lack torpedo bulkheads, but that's really not worth a full refurbishment. Between the short length, turbo-electric, and torpedo nets - which the Brits tested and found worked most of the time vs. net cutters - they should be hard torpedo targets ...for a 15000 ton vessel.

In 1924 I'll be upgrading the Smurgh class as well, which will be more combat worthy as it can have the 333L43 and also make 24kts, but have better armor.

The Tortoise class though..I look forward to when I replace that with a new CDS ship.

It's simply too small and underarmed to be a threat to a DNs....but it's faster than many. 
However, if someone wants to dedicate a modern capital unit for an unknown number of mo

[Kaiser Kirk]

Not to be done until 1924...

For comparison this is the much more expensive ($) refurbishment of the Predreadnaught Simurgh class.
Intended as analogous to the OTL Regina Marinas, I rather liked these pre-dreads.

For Parthia they were also meant to be the transition between pre-dreads and dreadnaughts.
While the Tortoise was 13" the Rohks were 12" with better guns, and the Simurghs returned to 13" (345mm) which
would become the main dreadnaught gun as well.
But the Parthians were trying for an armor belt 'proof' at battle ranges against their own main guns, which also
demanded a rather heavy main belt.

The result was a rather robust pre-dreadnaught.  Which I meant to upgrade a decade ago.
Still, for <7BP, it will be useful in a variety of secondary roles, while demanding a first-line capital ship to confidently engage it.

REFURBISHMENT

Base Cost : $17 * 0.25 = $4.25
armanent & machinery = 1499.5+1676=3175.5 = 3.1755 BP, $6.351
armor & functional misc wt = 1874+912=2786 = 2.786 BP, $2.786
Hull, fittings, & equipment = 6514/5000= $1.3028
Fuel, ammo, stores, NF Misc wt  = 2236+683+200 =3119/2000=$1.5595

Subtotals : 5.9615 BP, $16.2493

Total : 5.96 BP, $ 16.25

(see details below)

Original engines : 2312
Original Fuel :  2560
Original Main Mag : 280
Original Armor Deck : 1817
Original Hull : 5915

New Misc wt: 1112 (912 func)
Reserve : 200

AD
140t Fire Control
25t LR Radio
10t SR Radio dedicated aircraft
25t Hulesmeyer
25t Searchlight Tower (NF)

OD
5t Paravanes
5t Gunpowder Cat tranverse mounting
40t 2x Scout Floatplane

HAW
25t Enhanced Fire Suppression
19t CO2 compressor AC

HBW
25t Enhanced Pumps
149t  Torpedo Nets
419t Turboelectric Generator


A) Armanent and Machinery :
- New Steam Turboelec Turbines 24kts : 1676


New main gun turrets - 333L43
Gun + Mounts : 729
180L45-> 180L43 : 700t
Weld shut 90mm casements : --
Install 90mm AA :59
Install 57mm AA :10.4
intall 15mm MG  : 1.4
-----
1499.5

2) Armor & func wt
333L43 Turret :252t
180L43 turrets :176
90mm : 25
57mm : 2
subtotal : 455

Decks
+10mm fore
+10mm upper
+50mm main, stern
New Deck : 3013 : +1196
Vert :(30+10*.8)/2 + (60+50*.8) = 128
Waterline : 360+ (60+50*.8) =460mm
New Aft Con : 48t
Replace endbelts with 35mm : 71t
"bulge armor" : 104t

Funct Misc Wt :912

3) Hull
- Reconfigured 'cleaver bow' (aka +13 instead of -15)
+1.0m blisters each side, 9mm skin , 7.45m deep bottom belt to keel.
New Hull : 6514


4)
Bunker: 2236
Mags : 683
NF Misc Wt : 200

Upper belt : The main belt rises 0.5m above the main protective deck. The remaining distance to freeboard is covered by the upperbelt. 54% of the upper belt is 2 decks (5m) high, and 46% is 1 deck (2.5m) high. This means 54% is 4.5m high, and 46% is 2m high, for an average of 3.35m high.

+6.0 Forecastle Deck, 30mm armor deck, top of 54% of upper belt.
+3.5 Weather Deck, 30mm armor deck, top of 46% of upper belt
+1.5  Top of main belt
+1.0  3rd Deck, Crown of Protective Deck 60mm
-1.5   3rd Deck, Bottom of main belt, lower edge of 60mm protective deck
-3.00 2nd Deck
-5.50 1st Deck, pierced by turbines
-8.08 Engineering Deck

Simurgh, Parthian Battleship laid down 1904 (Engine 1924)

Displacement:
   18,581 t light; 19,682 t standard; 20,924 t normal; 21,918 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (493.77 ft / 487.20 ft) x 86.94 ft (Bulges 93.50 ft) x (28.71 / 29.87 ft)
   (150.50 m / 148.50 m) x 26.50 m (Bulges 28.50 m)  x (8.75 / 9.11 m)

Armament:
      4 - 13.11" / 333 mm 43.0 cal guns - 1,311.75lbs / 595.00kg shells, 96 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 7.09" / 180 mm 43.0 cal guns - 187.39lbs / 85.00kg shells, 197 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 600 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1919 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 8,462 lbs / 3,838 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.2" / 360 mm   316.67 ft / 96.52 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm   170.51 ft / 51.97 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Upper:   5.31" / 135 mm   316.67 ft / 96.52 m   10.99 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.35" / 9 mm   323.23 ft / 98.52 m   24.44 ft / 7.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.4" / 365 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      13.6" / 345 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      5.31" / 135 mm
   3rd:   1.38" / 35 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 6.10" / 155 mm
   Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm  Quarter deck: 3.15" / 80 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14.17" / 360 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 50,873 shp / 37,951 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,236 tons

Complement:
   869 - 1,130

Cost:
   £1.552 million / $6.208 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,399 tons, 6.7 %
      - Guns: 1,399 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 7,880 tons, 37.7 %
      - Belts: 2,847 tons, 13.6 %
      - Bulges: 104 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armament: 1,637 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,013 tons, 14.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 280 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 1,676 tons, 8.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,514 tons, 31.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,343 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,112 tons, 5.3 %
      - Hull below water: 593 tons
      - Bulge void weights: 200 tons
      - Hull above water: 44 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 225 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,602 lbs / 14,788 Kg = 28.9 x 13.1 " / 333 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.564
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.07 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.28 ft / 7.40 m,  21.98 ft / 6.70 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  21.98 ft / 6.70 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.04 ft / 5.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,840 Square feet or 2,772 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 813 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.16
      - Overall: 1.01
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

[Kaiser Kirk]

earlier I posted a ~15000 ton vessel armed with 230mm guns which we all agreed was a failure.

Conceptually I see roles for "Heavy" and "Light" armored cruisers.
The 4 Zemakas and 4 Asdar currently are the 'heavies', but I can see the heavy category may escalate up into battlecruisers, and I have the Dahae series for that, It kinda depends on folks actually DO with their BCs.  I'm guessing a fast wing of the battleine to force engagements, and tip/run raids. Unlike the RN, our nations are close to parity, and the more expensive ships get, the less likely I find it that limited battleline resources would be devoted to scout/raid/convoy defense. Especially if they can be mousetrapped in return.  Plus there's always the risk of an encounter in poor visibility

But there is still the light AC category - or which I may have tonnage in 1924.
This is to back the scout line and dispatch 6-8000 ton cruisers, be faster than ACs/BCs.though still slower than the Zemakas... 
Not really intended for fighting other ACs, they can if needed.
The deck+belt  is thick enough against the older Byzantine 10" or new IJN 8", though they would want to keep the Byzantines at range for a deck hit fight.

Saka, Parthian Light Armored Cruiser laid down 1924

Displacement:
   12,500 t light; 13,157 t standard; 14,535 t normal; 15,638 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (538.35 ft / 531.50 ft) x 71.06 ft x (27.89 / 29.44 ft)
   (164.09 m / 162.00 m) x 21.66 m  x (8.50 / 8.97 m)

Armament:
      6 - 10.04" / 255 mm 47.0 cal guns - 599.66lbs / 272.00kg shells, 128 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 43.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,455 lbs / 2,021 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   345.47 ft / 105.30 m   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm   185.99 ft / 56.69 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -12.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm   435.60 ft / 132.77 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      6.30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      1.38" / 35 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.38" / 35 mm  Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.50" / 165 mm, Aft 1.38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 88,685 shp / 66,159 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,520nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,480 tons

Complement:
   661 - 860

Cost:
   £3.809 million / $15.234 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 976 tons, 6.7 %
      - Guns: 976 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 2,970 tons, 20.4 %
      - Belts: 1,116 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armament: 702 tons, 4.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,051 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 101 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,921 tons, 20.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,018 tons, 34.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,036 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 615 tons, 4.2 %
      - Hull below water: 202 tons
      - Hull void weights: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 38 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 102 tons
      - Above deck: 173 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,576 lbs / 7,519 Kg = 32.8 x 10.0 " / 255 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.492
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m,  23.29 ft / 7.10 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  23.29 ft / 7.10 m,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.36 ft / 6.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,783 Square feet or 2,302 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 666 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Intended to be a "Light Armored Cruiser" to return the vessel to the role of defeating opposing scout cruisers and protected cruisers.

Named for nomadic Iranian tribes from prehistory.

Main Gun : 255L47 Designed 1917

Secondary Gun : 120L43 designed 1913.

Anti-Aircraft Gun : 90L50 designed 1911.

Armor 
A debate between extensive light armor to defeat QF weapons of their intended prey, or thicker AON armor to also allow long range engagements with peers led to the thicker armor.


Main Belt : 125mm ,
rises 1.5m above protective deck
+2.5m above WL to -1.8m Below WL
Inclined outwards 12degrees
4.3/cos(12) =4.3960= 4.4

End belts protect the waterline bow and stern from splinters
and cover -1.5 to +1.0

Armor Deck :
35mm forward (proof vs. 210mm splinters)
60mm Citadel & stern (proof vs 360mm splinters)


Misc Wt :
100t Const Resv

98t FC
25t LR Radio
25t Searchlight Tower
25t Hulesmeyer

32t : 2 x Quad 21"
10t : 2x Gunpowder Cat   On stern.
40t : 2x Scout Floatplane
20t : Stern Hanger


13t: CO2 Compressor AC
25t : Extra Fire Suppression

162t : Torpedo Nets
15t   :  Enhanced Hydrophones.
25t   : Extra Pumps.


Decks :
6.0  Forecastle Deck
3.5   Weather deck
            +2.5 top main belt.
1.0   Battery Deck, Top Belt, Crown Protective deck
-1.5  2nd deck, bottom protective dec
             -1.8   Bottom Main Belt
-4.0  1st Deck
-7.25    Engineering
-8.33 Keel, Double Bottom

[Kaiser Kirk]

It's funny, but it is difficult for me to keep that Saka class at that speed and armor combo.
For a Parthian ship, the armor is light.
But I want to keep the tonnage down.

I have a 28knot version - with TDS - And 165mm belt, just seems more well rounded,
But I think by time it launched in 1926 I'd regret the speed choice,
and by 1936 it would definitely feel to slow.

[Desertfox]

Simurgh looks alot more useful than the older pre-dred. The secondaries are much better laid out and its got bigger guns.

Saka seems off, its more expensive and slower than the Myokos, while only having 6 guns. Armor is better but not sure its worth it.

[Kaiser Kirk]

2 knot speed margins I am willing to give up. I chose the guns>armor>speed aspect of the triangle for this game.

I think much of the weight is the deck armor and guns....and barbettes.
The role isn't just cruiser focused, but also something that can still contend with older ACs. Which takes more oomph.

The 60mm deck armor is very heavy, but means it's proof against splinters up to 360mm- most Byzantine or IJN guns.
It should even stop them out to the near horizon - giving the Saka's time to run away.
Plus with ranges getting longer, it's useful against 8-10" guns at range

I can fit 8x230L44 or the 6x255L47, with either  the ROF should be reasonable and able to maintain ladders.
The performance advantage of the 255 is that it can hole cruiser-level armor out to the horizon.
If it can see it, it can sink it.


Maybe I should relook at the 230mm design, see if dropping the deck armor to 55mm might buy 1 knot.
It's just not as good a gun vs some of the older ACs out there, but perhaps those will all go out of service.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I actually have a lot of various Light Armored Cruiser designs
I've been looking at them since, oh mid 1910s.
The come in 255, 230 and 180 combinations.
The way folks are building the 180 doesn't seem viable.

Interestingly I can build this in 1923 for the cost of ~40 reserve tons. Really not much.
I will have to check what the 255 built in 1923 costs.

Logi is correct, I shouldn't build 4 battlewagons at once, really crimps
the ability to make these lighter but important designs.

So this is a 230mm version, with 31 knots.
The 178kg shell is pretty decent. the Parthians expect 139mm pen at 14km
while the splinters can pierce 38.3mm armor.

Against cruisers, still capable.
Against old ACs...not nearly as much.

The 255L47 is expected at 18km  to do 151mm belt and 50mm deck as well as 42.4mm splinter pen.
For night fights, it can penetrate 200mm at 13km and less, so some BCs, but with a higher ROF.
But that does mean where the 230mmm is going to be ~150 the 255 is doing 200,
and the superior deck penetration vastly expands the threat envelope.

Granted all those numbers are for the older 1915 shells, using Logi's ballistics tool.
I haven't reworked them for the 1920 shells I will have shortly.

The end belts and deck go away,
and the battery armor gets slimmed.

It sacrifices the protective deck for an armored deck.
That means the height of the armor belt can come down, as it no longer has to guard against shells diving over the top onto the slopes of the PD.

That also means the belt isn't backed by a deck anymore, so instead of a waterline shell having to defeat 125mm outsloped and then 60mm...it has to defeat 125mm outsloped.

edit : hmm forgot to include the ship....

Saka, Parthian Armored Cruiser laid down 1924

Displacement:
   12,507 t light; 13,233 t standard; 14,628 t normal; 15,744 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (571.30 ft / 564.30 ft) x 70.54 ft x (26.57 / 28.07 ft)
   (174.13 m / 172.00 m) x 21.50 m  x (8.10 / 8.56 m)

Armament:
      8 - 9.06" / 230 mm 44.0 cal guns - 392.42lbs / 178.00kg shells, 185 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 43.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,997 lbs / 1,813 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   366.80 ft / 111.80 m   11.42 ft / 3.48 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -12.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm   435.60 ft / 132.77 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.56" / 65 mm      4.92" / 125 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      1.38" / 35 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.17" / 55 mm
   Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm  Quarter deck: 2.17" / 55 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.92" / 125 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 98,156 shp / 73,225 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 9,570nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,511 tons

Complement:
   664 - 864

Cost:
   £3.820 million / $15.280 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 858 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 858 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 2,568 tons, 17.6 %
      - Belts: 862 tons, 5.9 %
      - Armament: 681 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 961 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 63 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,233 tons, 22.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,223 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,121 tons, 14.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 625 tons, 4.3 %
      - Hull below water: 208 tons
      - Hull void weights: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 38 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 102 tons
      - Above deck: 177 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,905 lbs / 7,668 Kg = 45.5 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.484 / 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  26.12 ft / 7.96 m,  23.79 ft / 7.25 m
      - Forward deck:   37.00 %,  23.79 ft / 7.25 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Aft deck:   28.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.23 ft / 6.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,142 Square feet or 2,429 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 654 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Intended to be a "Light Armored Cruiser" to return the vessel to the role of defeating opposing scout cruisers and protected cruisers.


Main Gun : 230L44 Designed 1913

Secondary Gun : 120L43 designed 1913.

Anti-Aircraft Gun : 90L50 designed 1911.

Armor 
A debate between extensive light armor to defeat QF weapons of their intended prey, or thicker AON armor to also allow long range engagements with peers led to the thicker armor.


Belt : 125mm , +1.7m above WL to -1.7m Below WL
Inclined outwards 12degrees
3.4/cos(12) =3.72699 = 3.4759 : 3.48

Armor Deck :

55mm Citadel & stern (proof vs 330mm splinters)


Misc Wt :
100t Const Resv

102t FC
25t LR Radio
25t Searchlight Tower
25t Hulesmeyer

32t : 2 x Quad 21"
10t : 2x Gunpowder Cat   On stern.
40t : 2x Scout Floatplane
20t : Stern Hanger
The lowered stern is supposed to be some sort of AC recovery
area.


13t: CO2 Compressor AC
25t : Extra Fire Suppression

168t : Torpedo Nets
15t   :  Enhanced Hydrophones.
25t   : Extra Pumps.


Decks :
6.5  Forecastle Deck
4.1   Weather deck
1.7   Battery Deck, Top Belt, Armored deck
-0.7  2nd deck
             -1.7   Bottom Main Belt
-3.3   1st Deck
-6.8    Engineering
-8.1 Keel, Double Bottom