Parthian vessels 1916 onwards

Kaiser Kirk · March 17, 2022, 08:24:21 AM

I'd prefer 27knots, but that version is the 3000 ton version. 50% increase.
Plus for the additional seakeeping, I had to increase the draft and length.
The draft then exceeds the depth I want.

One of the issues I am trying to balance is I only have so much BP, so 10x 3000 tons may be more useful
than trying to split the same tonnage between a more 'coastal' and a more 'fleet' vessel.

Underwater tubes - the information I've read is 20 knots was about the top end.
That's close to the 23, and so slightly slowing to fire would not be a tremendous sacrifice.

I was also thinking that not having to turn broadside to launch makes you a harder target,
and more likely to surprise. Especially at night, when that distant DD turns and clears it's side arcs
that should be a cue for the other side to pour on the fire to score some hits, then take evasive
because you can assume Torps inbound. Now if you have them in searchlight or starflare, you may
be able to see if they have launched or not...with bow on underwater tubes you'll have no idea.

Just a concept that floated to mind as an option. Appreciate the feedback on the idea.

Aft deck - that's where the Depth charges are, which is why "Y" is superimposed for clear fire aft.

Kaiser Kirk · March 18, 2022, 01:35:45 PM

Sorry, missed this in the first response.

Short Answer :
This is mainly a storyline matter.

Like the mountings of war tubas and hulesmeyer, and kite balloons
the Parthians are trying to embrace new sensor technology.

Further, while testing may not show dual hydrophones as having great utility, they believe
extended fleet service may lead to uses / techniques they did not think to test for.

The 'opportunity cost' of such things is modest.
This is much the same reason why I have 2 forms of most new turrets.
First one is free, but the second costs a tiny bit extra, but by having competing designs, the Parthians
can field the one that works the best.
SIM-wise, not needed as everything works.....reality wise, not a bad idea
...and it is intended to 'storyline' a form a thoroughness.

Overall, it's part of my effort to 'show' the Parthians being willing to
try different approaches to see what works best.
Additionally it goes to their paying attention to not only ship defenses but fleet defenses.
Each part of the fleet has a role with the rest.

Much longer answer

Hydrophones are newish, and the enhanced versions are new for the Parthians and clearly better than the old version.
The Parthians have mounted a large number of them on new or rebuilt ships, and refitted some that were built with basic hydrophones - I count 87 in service, 8 building.
In addition to the ability to hear submarines, they can hear the screws and hull turbulence of other ships, providing long range warning.

That ability is one of great interest, and so you are seeing hydrophones on non-ASW ships,
and I'm starting to propose redundant installations as a 'low cost' way of the Parthians exploring potential
ways to take advantage of this technology.

Where is the optimal place in the hull? Reject the turbulent stern, but try the other two. Does the answer change in different seas, different thermal regimes?
While training or experiments will largely provide answers, the Parthians think that in-service over time is useful to find the 'best' ways to use the equipment.

It also gives them a chance to compare the differences in operators - how crucial is that?
Operators get weary. Does having redundancy increase the detection effectiveness?

Directionality - This is more of a long shot. Enhanced Hydrophones give some directionality, but Currently, multiple vessels are needed to triangulate a contact. I expect experiment would show that two on one ship do not serve that role. There would be some hope that as operators get even more experience perhaps they can figure a way?

Result - I expect that I will be eventually refurbishing the ships, adding sonar- or replacing one hydrophone loc - and abandoning the twin hydrophones as not sufficiently directional
as to triangulate from one vessel, while concluding that enhanced screening of recruits for top aptitude is more useful than twin installations.

Very Long Answer :
The Chinese successes, combined with huge numbers of Byzantine TBs,
and the potential for this to be a new focus for asymmetric warfare,
have had ripple effects on Parthian equipment.

Part of this is seen in the continuation of torpedo nets on Parthian DNs,
despite TDS, even to the extent of retrofitting the new Tiamat class.
They have potential negatives, and 'net cutter' torpedoes can cut the netting.
From the Gallipoli campaign, it is not a guarantee to cut, only drops 1 panel, and
then you have to put a follow up torp in the same spot. Which would be darn
hard for a wave of MTBs or DDs to do, esp vs. a slowly moving ship.

However, all that is if a wave of torpedo armed vessels close on the battleline.
Considerable effort has gone into reducing the ability of the foe to do that.

Key to that is the Parthians have been trying different ways of detecting foes sufficiently far away
to take action.

Not all of these are necessarily useful, but the choice was made to field them,
and then see how effective they were in service, with the expectation many in use
may lead to unforeseen innovations that prove useful.

You saw with the MTBs swarms the Parthians upgunned their destroyers and
built a series of mid-sized cruisers Maelstrom and Ranger - 12 vessels - with 165mm QFs, focused on forward fire, which could charge the attackers
and seriously damage and disrupt them.
... but also with war tubas and hulesmeyer gear trying to find ways to expand detection range.
Now, having realized these cruisers are too capable to be restricted to a defensive role,
they have built / refitted the sentry frigates.

So on future vessels, the war tubas, which I expect are useless on a ship at sea, are discarded.
Searchlight towers (my euphemism for Night Fighting gear) are popping up. These Dedicated searchlight towers are found as part of the night fighting evolution.
The hulesmeyer, which is at least useful for avoiding night time collisions, and is likely good for formation keeping,
is retained.

There is a baseline irony in that the Chinese successes are against the background of a Japanese fleet generally lacking QF secondaries or fire control,
which meant the MTBs survived the approach much better, could saturate the defenses, and launch from a short range - and launch range is key to hit rates.
The Japanese still innovated and provided effective defensive measures that devastated some later MTB attacks.
So...the Parthians are probably over reacting to the perceived threat of torpedoes, the chance of large numbers of vessels launching at 4000m from my battleline
is...very low.
...and then came the Caicos, a tooth and nail brawl at close quarters where an Aztec capital ship got torpedoed by an cruiser...at short range.
Granted the MTB attack misfired and got chewed up, but doctrine says use those at night anyhow.
In which case it's prudent to be able to find and react to incoming charges by MTBs or DDs.

I have tried to take the same proactive route with my AA batteries, but have relented when criticized for it.
I confess that getting push back on my AA batteries annoys me, because I've built a history here
of a navy that tries to be proactive in providing defenses, and the 'opportunity cost' of extra AA guns is trivial, compared
to the original history claims of tremendous air craft effectiveness.
But the French Sufferen was a 1924 LD, after which I can justifiable put more AA on.

Just overall, I'm willing to field slightly slower ships if it frees the weight for slightly more sensors and armor.

Kaiser Kirk · April 01, 2022, 11:56:00 PM

in HY1, 1921, the Parthians finished the 1918 Fire Control.
In HY2, 1921, they refurbished several ships, including the 230L44 armed Rustam ACs .
This vessel served as the test bed for both 'in service' trials of the concepts, and 'how does one retrofit this ship for this system'.

The 1918 fire control increases effective gunnery control from 14km to 24km (further than I think it should), and starts to incorporate aerial spotting.
Dyebags become very useful for telling which squadron ship is doing what.

Though Parthian Naval Air is still weak - 12 Kite Balloons, 40 seaplanes and the 15 wheeled planes on the experimental flight deck carrier,
they are starting to put floatplanes and gunpowder cats on board ships, though in many cases they may need to substantially remodel the superstructure.
They also now have 3 types of AAA available - 90, 57 and 15MG, but most vessels have nothing

Lastly, they have been working hard on night fighting proficiency, and while a minimum of large diameter optics, red lighting, hooded lamps and running lights is cheap and easy, mostly
falling in basic ships fittings, the top end of their plans include a night fighting suite with a central searchlight tower, a tactical plotting system, starshell mortars, and hulesmeyer devices for collision warning/station keeping. As I recall the hulesmeyer is only useful for direction to a metal object and out to about 10km, but it really should be useful for nighttime formation steaming and maneuvers.

Irony is the Gilgamesh class was designed pre-fire control, and so designed to slug it out vs. 345mm at 6000m, very difficult to penetrate belt + protective deck....perfect for night fighting. But fiitting FC took most of it's reserve, because I was just setting aside 1-2% of LD. So they don't have room for the full NF suite....argh.
A refurbishing I shall go, a refurbishing I shall go, hi ho a dairy o, a refurbishing I will go.

I also want to proliferate minesweeping paravanes through the fleet better. I have been very negligent on this. Which is odd since I have one of the better minesweeping forces with over 100 sweep-capable ships...maybe that's why it didn't seem pressing.

While LR radios should be upgraded through general maintenance, as I refurbish and refit my ships, especially for the <1910 hulls, I'm 'spending' to replace the LR Radios completely.

Basic Refits
So rather than post a whole series of SS's when mainly I'm shuffling deck chairs... well sometimes I'm removing old 60L50QFs and adding AA,
but everything is a basic refit... so I figured I'd try this format - just showing what I changed and what the costs are.

IF anyone wants the SS's....that's standard we normally use, and I'm quite willing to post them

BR FC – Sparabara AC	2	0.078	0.078	1-3, 4-6
BR FC+ Asbara AC	4	0.264	0.264	1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 4-6
BR FC+ Rohk BB	2	0.208	0.208	1-3, 4-6
BR FC+ Gilgamesh	4	0.278	0.278	1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 4-6
BR FC+ Enki	2	0.358	0.358	1-3, 4-6
BR FC + Rohk	2	0.184	0.184	1-3, 4-6
Seaplane Carrier	4	0.025	0.025	1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 4-6
Flight Deck Carrier	1	0.022	0.022	4-6
Torpedo Boat Carrier	1	0.02	0.02	1-3
GB-5-6 Recalde	2	0.007	0.007	1-3
PC Shabrang	2	0.035	0.035	1-3, 4-6
PC3-4 Rakash	2	0.051	0.051	2-4, 3-5
PC 5-6 Kanthaka	2	0.079	0.079	1-3, 4-6
CR1,3 Varyu/Vata–FC+	2	0.296	0.296	1-3, 4-6
CR 2,4 Saka -FC	2	0.039	0.039	2-4, 3-5

1922.0 Fleet Fire Control Refits

Class : Sparabara, Parthian Armored Cruiser laid down 1899, Refurbished 1921
Current Misc Weight
Misc Wt :
45t reserve

78t FC -1912
25t LR Radio
25t Searchlight Tower

5t Paravanes

9t CO2 Air Conditioning

137 Torpedo Nets
501 Turbo Generator

Basic Refit Misc Weight
Misc Wt :

78t FC -1918

Cost : 78t = $0.078, 0.078[/b]

Class : Asbara, Parthian Armored Cruiser laid down 1908

Current Misc Weight
Misc Weight :
75t- Additional "Windcatcher" ventilation
25t - Long range radio
110t - fire control 1910 (1905 as designed, but completed HY1 1910, so completed with 1910)
178t - torpedo nets
40t - torpedo flat above stern armor deck
150t - miscellaneous weight.

1913-1914 FC fleet upgrades to 1912 FC

Basic Refit Misc Weight

Remove 12x 60L50 QF M
Add 6x 2G 57L60AA M - 44t total

Misc Weight : Changes
AD:
110t - fire control 1918
25t - Long range radio
+25t – Searchlight Tower (Night Fighting )
+25t - Hulesmeyer

OD
+5t – Paravanes
+25t – Armed Floatplane
+5t - Gunpowder Catapult
+5t – Hanger structure amidships

HBW

-90t – Miscellaneous weight

45t - const. Resv.

Cost: 264t = $0.264, 0.264

Class : Gilgamesh, Parthian Dreadnaught laid down 1906

Current Misc Weight

Misc. Weight :
162t - torpedo nets
40t - 4x TT, 2 each beam, 20 x 18" Torpedoes
115t - Extra ventilation "Windcather" evaportive cooling
35t- Short & Long range Radios
242t - 1910 Fire Control
8t- Construction reserve

1911 HY2 :
Basic Refit, upgrade to 1910 Fire Control

1913-1914 fleet refits :
Improve FC to 1912: Primitive FC computers -14km

Basic Refit Misc Weight

Remove 12x 60L50 QF M
Add 6x 2G 57L60AA M - 34t total

243t – 1918 FC
-10t - Free SR Radio
25t - New LR Radio
+5– Basic Night fighting gear
+5 Paravanes

Cost: 278t, $0.278, 0.278

Class : Enki, Parthian Dreadnaught laid down 1907

Current Misc Weight

Miscellaneous weight
50t Const Reserve
242 1912 FC
25 LR Radio

110 Improved Evaporative ventilation

1911 basic refit
Improve FC to 1910

1913-1914 fleet refits :
Improve FC to 1912: Primitive FC computers -14km

Basic Refit Misc Weight
Remove 12x 60L50 QF M
Add 6x 2G 57L60AA M - 35t total

AD
243t - Fire Control 1918
25t - LR Radio
+25t -Searchlight Tower
+25t - Hulesmeyer

OD
+5t - Paravanes

Cost: 358t = $0.358, 0.358

Class : Rohk, Parthia battleship laid down 1900

Current Misc Weight
Misc Wt.
25t- Long Range Radios, as built
73t - 0.5% increased ventilation
40t - 4 torpedo tubes (2 each beam) with 20 18" torpedoes
148t - Torpedo Nets
145t - Construction reserve

1907 refurb : 138t
105t : +1905 fire control
-105t : construction reserve
-16x 45L45
25t +16x 60L50
-15t :construction reserve
1913-14 FC refits : 1912 FC

Basic Refit Misc Weight
1922 FC refits
- 16x 60L50
+4 x 90L50AA, +2x 57L60

108t - 1918 FC
25t – LR Radio
+25t - Searchlights Columns(NF)
+5t Paravanes

Note : in 1922.0 the new 180L47s are not yet ready, a refurbishment is planned for 1923.0.
Cost: Total : 27+25+17.9+108 +30 = $0.208, 0.208

Class : Simurgh, Parthian Battleship laid down 1904

Current Misc Weight
Misc Wt.
85t - 0.5% "Windcatcher" increased ventilation
40t - 4 torpedo tubes (2 each beam) with 20x 18" torpedoes
149t - Torpedo Nets
144t - 1910 Fire Control
26t - void, construction reserve (1%)

1907 Refit :
-144t Constrution Reserve
144t 1905 Fire Control

1912 Basic Refit :
144t 1910 Fire Control

1913-1914 fleet refits :
Improve FC to 1912: Primitive FC computers -14km

Basic Refit Misc Weight

+ 6 x 15mm 'Wirblewind' AA mounts. = 5.1 t

Miscellaneous Weight 1922 Basic Refit
AD
144t Fire Control 1918
25t LR Radio
+5t - basic NF

OD
+5t - Paravanes

HAW

HBW
Cost: 184.1t = $0.184, 0.184

Class : PC-1 Shabrang R1920, Parthia Protected Cruiser laid down 1900 (Engine 1920)

Current Misc Weight
Misc Wt
10t- Resv

30t - FC - 1912
25t - LR radio
25t - Searchlight tower

36t - 4TT3 21"

6t - CO2 Air Compressor A/C
25t - Enhanced fire suppression

25t - Enhanced Pumps
145t - Torpedo Nets
394t - Turboelectric drive.
15t - Enhanced Hydrophones

Basic Refit Misc Weight
30t - FC – 1918

+5t - Paravanes

-5t- Resv

Cost: 35t = $0.035 , 0.035

Class : PC3-4 Rakash

Current Misc Weight

Misc Wt
30t - Misc Wt

46t - FC - 1912
25t - LR Radio
25t - Searchlight tower

36t - 4TT3 21"

6t - CO2 Compressor AC

441t - Turbogenerator
25t - Extra Pumps

Basic Refit Misc Weight
46t - FC – 1918

+5t Paravanes
-5t Reserve

Cost: 51t = $ 0.051, 0.051

Class : PC 5-6 Kanthaka

Current Misc Weight
60t construction reserve

49t FC -1912
25t LR radio
25t Searchlight tower (NF)

6t CO2 Compressor AC
36t 4TT3 TT 21"

160t - Provisions for 160mines on 2nd deck, aft ports for dropping
25t - Enhanced fire extinguishers

25t - enhanced pumps
15t - Enhanced hydrophones
36t - spare torpedoes

Basic Refit Misc Weight
49t FC -1918
25t LR Radio

+5t Paravanes
-5t Reserve

Cost: 79t = $0.079, 0.079

Class : CR-1/3 Varyu / Vatu, Parthian Raider laid down 1911

Current Misc Weight

Miscellaneous Weight
25t Fire Control 1910
25t Long range radio
160t - 2x MTB-A
35t - 'windcatcher' evaporative cooling
40t- Marine Quarters
20t- Brig
8t - tender capacity for 2 MTBs
4 underwater torpedo tubes in stern, located below armored deck.
60t - 30 spare 18 " torpedoes
245t (~10t day, 21 days base, +29days, 45 days cruise range + days spare)
115t- Spare

1913-1914 fleet refits :
Improve FC to 1912: Primitive FC computers -14km

Basic Refit Misc Weight
-7.5mm Mgs
+8x 57L60 : 22.8t total

25t FC – 1918
25t LR Radio
+25t Hulesmeyer
+25t Searchlight Tower

+5t Paravanes
168t : Convert MTB-A to MTB-D handling

New Reserve : 30t

Cost: 295.8 = $0.295.8, 0.295.8

For the other vessels, the cost of FC is the cost,
or the cost of FC+LR radio

Kaiser Kirk · April 04, 2022, 01:45:36 PM

Since I'm discussing matters with Jefgte with the Aux thing,
I thought I would post a ship designed for basically exactly the same role,
that I think would fall in Aux.

This is trying to demonstrate that I am enforcing the same rules on myself as well.

The real differences are his slightly more effective main gun and greater speed.

Speed- I could try to justify +3 over the 1915 fleet submarine surfaced speed, as the RN felt 2-3 knots
were sufficient to choose range. However that would put me at 20kts- the same as my battleline.
PLUS, auxiliaries should be about the lower end.
So I deliberately choose less - 19knts seems about the defensible max speed.

The cruise range and speed is also dramatically less. The vessel simply can't operate with fleet elements
without them substantially reducing performance. It can work ahead or behind the fleet, and support the fleet.
It is Aux.

Gun - You need somewhere between 75mm minimum to reasonably damage the sail of a submarine.
75mm seems most common, though some subchasers had 6-pdrs.
For me the options would be 57/60/90. 90mm is my smallest modern in common service.

Cargo - A ship with a higher % allocated to cargo/fleet supply/ etc is easier to tell.
But for these ships, we're talking a

I was going to commence construction in 1922.5,as

Kaiser Kirk · April 07, 2022, 01:01:27 AM

So for 1922,
I have the Gnat Class which is waiting until 1922.5 for a refreshed 90L45 mount,
I have the 1922 version of the Kalifern BB, which ..I need to check...is waiting for the 365L50 'True Quad'....which gets modeled the same as the 'pair of twins'.

I thought I would explore a seaplane tender.
Parthia has a number of island chains, and being able to setup a full airpoint capable of naval reconnaissance and strike,
rather than a couple planes off an experimental carrier.

I also stuck net-tending in as a dual role. The new auxiliaries I'm considering
will help establish forward operating bases in places the foe may not expect.
These can be repair/refuel locations.

I would like a little more top speed, but if the tender is operating solo and trying to run on the surface from a sub,
something may have already gone wrong.

Light Displacement is kept to 15,000, so 15+9 = 24 , the vessel can be built in 4 HY.
At 3.75BP total and 0.9375 / hy

Avo Piarika, Parthia Seaplane Tender laid down 1922

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,426 t standard; 16,886 t normal; 18,055 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.20 ft / 452.76 ft) x 90.22 ft x (20.67 / 21.92 ft)
   (140.27 m / 138.00 m) x 27.50 m x (6.30 / 6.68 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1922 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 763 lbs / 346 kg

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 10,255 shp / 7,650 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 12,060nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,630 tons

Complement:
   739 - 962

Cost:
   £1.674 million / $6.696 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 146 tons, 0.9 %
     - Guns: 146 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 348 tons, 2.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,001 tons, 23.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,886 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10,506 tons, 62.2 %
     - Hull below water: 3,557 tons
     - Hull void weights: 140 tons
     - Hull above water: 6,440 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 300 tons
     - Above deck: 69 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,771 lbs / 13,957 Kg = 459.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.72
   Metacentric height 10.4 ft / 3.2 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 21.16 ft / 6.45 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 21.16 ft / 6.45 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.76 ft / 6.02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,741 Square feet or 3,042 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 471 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

'Avo' - to support 'Pairika' 'a fairie'.

Dathrish - the Giver/Benefactress

Intended to support flying boats from a variety of anchorages
as a seaplane tender.

In 1922 the Parthians are very unsure how to do air group command and control.
They add a bonus SR radio for a dedicated airgroup channels, as well as an RDF beacon.
They also provide large space from which to plot search areas, plane positions, and
air group coordination. They expect the room use will change as operations define
what is infact needed.

The vessel also carries a small group of on-board planes.
These are both an experiment, and to try to keep enemy reconnaisance at bay

Anchorage Torpedo nets are carried, these are double weight Bullivant nets, 50kg per square meters.
Each 10m x 10m section is 5000kg = 11240lbs = 4.9 naval tons.
To carry that the float must displace as much or more in seawater volume.
1 cu meter of seawater weighs 1,024 kg....so 5 cu meters would > the net
110m...which.....ah lets call the floats 0.6tons, so it's 10m for 5.5 tons.

Overall, this allows 3.6km of netting, which should mean the vessel can secure and anchorage
and landing area. If kept to the shallows the netting should extend to the bottom. Otherwise they can be placed close to ships so that there is no room for a sub to sneak under, rise and fire.

This is half of what the ships pay (which is 1t/1m)...but the ships have it on 2 sides, but only
80% of length, so it's not far off, and should represent the later heavier british Nets, which stop
~75% of net cutter torpedoes or more.

Armanent is casement mounted 120mm for surface raiders, expected to be fast and high speed,
and a heavy suite of AA to fend off enemy air.

"Armanent": 2% of Normal = 16,886 * 0.02 = 337.72
Guns : 109
Armed Floatplanes : 180
Total : 285

Miscellaneous Wieght :
140t reserve

AD:
11t Fire Control 1918
25t LR Fire Control
10t SR Radio - Dedicated Flight Command
23t Cage Mast for Air Traffic Control

OD:
180 : 6x 25+5 Armed Float Plane
120 : Air plotting room....

HAW
6400t Seaplane Tender
15t CO2 Compressor AC
25t Additional Fire Suppression

HBW
1980t - Bueliviant Torpedo netting and floats. 3600m
20 : Additional stores & avgas for floatplanes
1000t : AVGAS
420t : Torpedo & munitions storage
25t : Additional pumps
25t : Additional fire suppression for AV GAS
87t : Turbogenerator

The Rock Doctor · April 07, 2022, 07:39:28 AM

I like it, and I can see why Parthia would be interested in one. It's not a role I think the Union is interested in just yet.

The netlaying function makes sense and at the same time I'd also wonder about keeping it in a separate hull in case net maintenance might interfere with floatplaning.

Kaiser Kirk · April 07, 2022, 08:43:51 AM

I have an aux design where I've built that netlaying into a Fleet Support Vessel, so that might indeed be more appropriate.

Hmm, perhaps I should allocate 100 tons for a "50t Net tender Launch " ?
Have to scrape it off other misc allocations.

The Rock Doctor · April 07, 2022, 09:16:39 AM

That might do it. You could just knock off a few metres of actual net to find the savings.

Kaiser Kirk · April 07, 2022, 10:15:51 AM

ooh I like that, a less painful way to find the weight !

Kaiser Kirk · April 13, 2022, 09:53:05 PM

After the DC discussion,
I realized that the version II of the Gnat Aux I got 'off course'.

So, like Jefgte was arranging different gun batteries, I will do the same.
6pdrs are the low end of what SC's mounted, I have a very nice recent researched one with a new mount...

So this is the revised Subchaser version, same hull/hardware, but gets back into the aux role.
As 90% of it's life will be patrol / coast guard work, provision for marine fire teams is still made.

Gnat Patrol Aux, Parthian Small Coastal Auxiliary laid down 1922

Displacement:
   280 t light; 289 t standard; 300 t normal; 310 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (163.72 ft / 160.76 ft) x 22.97 ft x (5.45 / 5.58 ft)
   (49.90 m / 49.00 m) x 7.00 m x (1.66 / 1.70 m)

Armament:
1 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal gun - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1917 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7 lbs / 3 kg

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,202 shp / 1,642 Kw = 19.00 kts
   Range 2,420nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 21 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   35 - 46

Cost:
   £0.058 million / $0.231 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.7 %
     - Guns: 2 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 76 tons, 25.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 127 tons, 42.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 20 tons, 6.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 25.0 %
     - Hull below water: 37 tons
     - Hull void weights: 2 tons
     - Hull above water: 17 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 18 tons
     - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     493 lbs / 224 Kg = 87.3 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.523 / 0.527
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 13.94 ft / 4.25 m, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 11.48 ft / 3.50 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m, 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     - Average freeboard:      10.08 ft / 3.07 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,513 Square feet or 233 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 138 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 4.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I have realized that the Variant 2 of the Gnat class will
need different armanent for it's role, in order to stay in
the Aux class.

So instead of the 1x 90mm,
it will mount 1x 57L60 in the new AS mount.
The brits mounted 6pdrs, so it's not 'too small', just not as good.

Very high velocity, flat shots, it is expected to penetrate
the pressure hull at relatively close ranges.

1. Coastal/Riverine water Patrol
2. Subchaser
3. Minesweeper

Normal Disp : 300t x 0.02 = 6t arms
Configuration 1 & 3 : 1x90L45, 6x 15L70 : 4.46 tons
All ok

Version 2 : Guns : 2.46tons = ok, 3.54 tons 'slack'.

Subchaser configuration

Void : 2t Reserve

AD :
1t FC 1918

OD :
5t : Advanced Paravanes
3t : DC 195kg x 15
10t : Short term berths 4 marines

HAW :
1t CO2 Compressor AC
1t Small Arms locker
5t Brig
10t : Short term berths 4 marines

HBW
15t : Enhanced Hydrophones
19t : Turboelectrice Generators
3t : Batteries

Aux Cost : 70t

The Rock Doctor · April 14, 2022, 05:24:03 AM

A 57mm hole is still a bad thing for most submarines. It'll be a handy asset.

Kaiser Kirk · April 23, 2022, 09:28:45 PM

This is the reworked Seaplane tender.

The deployable anchorage torpedo net is now only 3km,
but there are two 100ton tugs to serve as net tenders.

The avgas is quantified at 6lbs/gal and specified as a separate tanks for it,
random guess that reduces it to 80% fuel / 20% storage for that weight.

Avo Piarika, Parthia Seaplane Tender laid down 1922

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,426 t standard; 16,886 t normal; 18,055 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.32 ft / 452.76 ft) x 90.22 ft x (20.67 / 21.92 ft)
   (140.30 m / 138.00 m) x 27.50 m x (6.30 / 6.68 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1922 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
6 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 763 lbs / 346 kg

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 10,255 shp / 7,650 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 12,060nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,630 tons

Complement:
   739 - 962

Cost:
   £1.674 million / $6.696 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 146 tons, 0.9 %
     - Guns: 146 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 348 tons, 2.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,996 tons, 23.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,886 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10,511 tons, 62.2 %
     - Hull below water: 3,227 tons
     - Hull void weights: 75 tons
     - Hull above water: 6,440 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 700 tons
     - Above deck: 69 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,532 lbs / 14,303 Kg = 470.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.68
   Metacentric height 10.1 ft / 3.1 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
     - Forward deck:   25.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      18.16 ft / 5.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,741 Square feet or 3,042 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 478 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

'Avo' - to support 'Pairika' 'a fairie'.

Dathrish - the Giver/Benefactress

Intended to support flying boats from a variety of anchorages
as a seaplane tender.

The stern ramps down, intended to allow floatplanes to advance onto a wire mesh mat and then be winched up the fantail.

The gunpowder catapults fire directly over the bow.

In 1922 the Parthians are very unsure how to do air group command and control.
They add a bonus SR radio for a dedicated airgroup channels, as well as an RDF beacon.
They also provide large space from which to plot search areas, plane positions, and
air group coordination. They expect the room use will change as operations define
what is infact needed.

The vessel also carries a small group of on-board planes.
These are both an experiment, and to try to keep enemy reconnaisance at bay

Anchorage Torpedo nets are carried, these are double weight Bullivant nets, 50kg per square meters.
Each 10m x 10m section is 5000kg = 11240lbs = 4.9 naval tons.
To carry that the float must displace as much or more in seawater volume.
1 cu meter of seawater weighs 1,024 kg....so 5 cu meters would > the net
110m...which.....ah lets call the floats 0.6tons, so it's 10m for 5.5 tons.

So 3.0km is 300 x 10m sections or 1650t

Overall, this allows 3.0km of netting, which should mean the vessel can secure and anchorage and landing area. If kept to the shallows the netting should extend to the bottom. Otherwise they can be placed close to ships so that there is no room for a sub to sneak under, rise and fire.

This is half of what the ships pay (which is 1t/1m)...but the ships have it on 2 sides, but only
80% of length, so it's not far off, and should represent the later heavier british Nets, which stop
~75% of net cutter torpedoes or more.

A pair of 100t launches are carried to serve as nettenders.

Armanent is casement mounted 120mm for surface raiders, expected to be fast and high speed,
and a heavy suite of AA to fend off enemy air.

"Armanent": 2% of Normal = 16,886 * 0.02 = 337.72
Guns : 109
Armed Floatplanes : 180
Total : 285

Miscellaneous Wieght :
75t reserve

AD:
11t Fire Control 1918
25t LR Fire Control
10t SR Radio - Dedicated Flight Command
23t Cage Mast for Air Traffic Control

OD:
180 : 6x 25+5 Armed Float Plane
120 : Air plotting room....
400 : 2x100t "Nettender" tug

HAW
6400t Seaplane Tender
15t CO2 Compressor AC
25t Additional Fire Suppression

HBW
1650t - Bueliviant Torpedo netting and floats. 3000m
20 : Additional stores & avgas for floatplanes
1000t : AVGAS in cylindrical tanks, sat 80% efficiency (37,333*0.8= 29,866gal)
420t : Torpedo & munitions storage
25t : Additional pumps
25t : Additional fire suppression for AV GAS
87t : Turbogenerator

The pro

Decks :
+7.4 Forecastle deck
+4.9 Weather deck
+2.4 3rd deck
-0.1 2nd Deck
-2.6 1st Deck
-5.1 Engineering
-6.12 Keel, Double Bottom

Kaiser Kirk · April 24, 2022, 03:09:24 PM

I am still eyeing getting the next battlewagons laid down in HY2 1922, the build will be slow at first, but I will 'catch up' later.
I've posted earlier iterations of this ship before.

I believe I reworked the belt and deck armor on this.
The belt is now tapered outslope, while the deck armor is backed by a splinterbox around the magazines.
There is provision for floatplanes, either of the scout or fighter type, to either spot or contest spotting.

Combined with the Tiamats and Vazryas, the two Kaliferns will give 8 "battleline" vessels while the two Stormbringer will be the flying wing.
I expect it to be my last 20knt ship, as the fleets of the world have moved away from that.
Currently the Parthians are sticking to the idea that there will be a decisive fight, or threat of one.
Ultimately naval warfare is about the SLOC and strategic points, and In both the Sino-Japanese, Romo-Aztec showdowns the sprint speed of the battleline ultimately meant little.

I may still have a successor to the Stormbringer in 365L50 and 26-28knots as the 'scout support' and bring the 'flying wing' up to 4 vessels, but as fleets evolve, we'll see.

As always, my desired tonnage expenditure exceeds my actual capabilities.

Kaiser Kirk · April 24, 2022, 11:54:33 PM

Then there's this one, much smaller.
I *thought* I had finalized a 1922 version, but this is 1923.

Basically it's a down-scaled USS Omaha with a 130mm main armament instead of 152mm.

It's meant to provide ships to replace the antiquated Artesmia class of sailing frigates
as well as provide fleet 'skirmishers', colonial patrol etc.
All better done with a small cruiser than a big destroyer.

Kaiser Kirk · April 25, 2022, 11:58:07 PM

Looking a bit more at 1923 and the 1920 cruiser tech,

while the Artesmia II is a small cruiser,
the real question is what to do with the 'standard' cruiser of 6000 tons?

I can continue the Moulek class, I think it's a pretty solid design.

With the 1920 tech, I can 'upscale' from that to an 8000 ton vessel.
...which is 33% larger and more expensive.

So here are two vessels whch explore that.
The first also borrows from the USS Omaha for it's gun layout.
I mean, who Doesn't love double stacked casements ?
The real goal was that each gun would be a single 180, keeping
the weight down and the training rate high.
The downside is with 12x180, only 8 train on the broadside.
Of course, Omaha had the double casements as the USN wanted to maximize foreward fire,
so 6 barrels bear for/aft.
The 90mm belt is really seen as undesirable.

The second is better armored, and has a better broadside, with a Pensacola-like 3(2) (2)3 main battery.
This means all 10 bear on the beam, 25% more than the preceding ship.
The 180 mounts were specially researched for mating with power assist.