Stored aircraft

[TacCovert4]

I'm working on an HMS Unicorn design of aircraft repair carrier.  She'll be a warship build with probably 24 aircraft in ready status aboard.  But looking at aviation support stuff, if I were to drop in "boxed" aircraft and parts and such for aviation support for other carriers, would the following be ok?

6400t is considered a seaplane AP and DP on a seaplane tender.  95t per bird for carrier aircraft.  Given that it's providing additional support and replacement planes and parts and such, I see two variations:

1)  25 to 30 tons per aircraft for aviation support.   Which would be a crated aircraft and spare parts.  Shops would be an additional tonnage. This isn't providing am aircraft for active service, rather the ability to replace losses in the field for a carrier. 

2)  6400t equals support for a fleets carriers, like repair and replacement parts, and an associated DP for the aircraft aboard the fleets carriers.

Obviously on board aircraft for active use, like CAP have to be paid for at the full rate, this isn't a way out of that, rather a way to support operations of fleet carriers by fixing and replacing damaged aircraft

[Kaiser Kirk]

It's a decent question and one worth group discussion.

Currently the focus was on trying to model an airgroup.
That include space and stores for aircrew, ground crew, spare parts, workshops, fuel & munitions (I will need to recheck but I think about 5 full sorties seems to have been historic).

There is the presumption that serviceability rates are less than the number of planes on hand. As sorties occur, losses are tracked, and so the servicibility rate is applied to fewer aircraft.  So 64 planes, 46 can launch. Loose 4, 60 planes, 45 can launch, loose 4, 56 planes, 42 can launch.... etc. 

Therefore the storage cost of a spare plane should be 'less'.
now in GRT and to a lesser degree just 'tons' the opportunity cost is  - to borrow 1e D&D- encumbrance , or a combination of space and weight.
That is particularly so in the case of planes that just need a little reassembly to fly- they are not Ikea flat packs.

Personally, I'd be inclined to use the 25t misc wt we kinda default to for 'unknown' categories.
30 would be fine.

The 6400 is modeled after what I roughed out would be needed to support a large number of flying boats and seaplanes- I forget exactly what and how I was deriving that, but there was a logic basis to the number crunching.  Single carriers do not carry that number of planes.

One option would be to just use the Tender rules, but specify that the 'Fleet Support Tonnage' is 'Carrier Fleet Support Tonnage' and
we all agree that becomes the mechanism to support fleet carriers.
That would have the advantage of simplicity and not having to count individual aircraft.

If however we are trying to model 'real life' ships, a SS of the Unicorn could inform us as to how much weight really was available to be allocated in such a way.

[TacCovert4]

I'll screw around with it when I have the chance. 

If the 6400t, I was figuring one of these per fleet, supporting up to 4 carriers.  Conceptually, damaged aircraft would land here to be repaired, and aircraft from the small flying group here would cross deck to the fleet carriers while repairs were made or a crated plane was assembled.   If the 6400t, then this ship would also have basic munitions and fuel to double the sorties of the fleet.

[Jefgte]

From the 7900t Byzantine CVE
18 aircrafts

AD
18t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
OD
20t for fire control
AW
720t for 9 aircrafts
30t for fire control
20t for aircraft spares or reserved
30t for climatisation
BW
720t for 9 aircrafts
60t for additionnal pumps
60t for aircrafts amunition & AVGAS protection
30t for fire control
30t for climatisation
40t reserved

If we count 1t per spare part.
(wings, fuselage, engines, empennage)
=> 5t of spare parts per aircraft.
In all, 20t of spare parts => 4 aircrafts in spare parts.

[TacCovert4]

From the 7900t Byzantine CVE
18 aircrafts

AD
18t for top fire control
25t for Marconi
OD
20t for fire control
AW
720t for 9 aircrafts
30t for fire control
20t for aircraft spares or reserved
30t for climatisation
BW
720t for 9 aircrafts
60t for additionnal pumps
60t for aircrafts amunition & AVGAS protection
30t for fire control
30t for climatisation
40t reserved

If we count 1t per spare part.
(wings, fuselage, engines, empennage)
=> 5t of spare parts per aircraft.
In all, 20t of spare parts => 4 aircrafts in spare parts.

Actually that checks out.  The TBF Avenger, which would represent the top of the weight range, weight 5 tons dry.   I'd say add an extra ton for the rack to hold the parts securely.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Thats why I mentioned 'encumberance'.
If you want crates of parts, that's weight.
If you want mostly assembled parts - like wings - and to have them accessible - then there's a volume aspect as well.
It starts to blur the line between "tonnage" and "GRT", but the raw weight should probably be exceeded.

[TacCovert4]

So, playing around with HMS Unicorn.  Or as close as I can get her by Aztec Standards.  And I think I'm seeing a trend in her tonnage and whatnot that seems reasonable:

6400t is considered 1AP + 1DP.  Given that what we're covering is 'crated aircraft, parts, POL, and Ordnance', it seems more like we're talking about a DP than an AP.  6400t would put the ship with a significant seaplane airgroup plus the support for those.  Since this 'carrier' is designed to be able to put up a few aircraft for self defense but primarily support other carriers, half of that tonnage, IE 3200t, would seem to be reasonable to functionally be a floating DP for carriers in the fleet.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Reading the relevant section it's not worded clearly.

Currently, it seems like the Seaplane tender is a floating base you can assign the AP + DP to.
Yet my mental intent was for the Tender to BE the base+DP, and you assigned the AP.

Thats not really how it reads, and should probably get reworded.
I believe there was another section that needed slight rewording as well. I think the breakpoint for floatplanes in different sections.

Might be worth a rule change discussion.


Seaplane tenders are not assumed to have dedicated aircraft carried on board.  Rather they serve in a sheltered anchorage as a maritime basing and support for a "Air Point" and "deployment point" representing Flying Boats and or Maritime reconnaissance bombers, along with associated Floatplane fighters.

Assign as miscellaneous weight 6400t.  This covers crew quarters, spare parts, spare engines, weapons and fuel