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Draft Carrier Rules

Started by Kaiser Kirk, March 17, 2021, 10:31:20 AM

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Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: Desertfox on March 17, 2021, 03:33:07 PM
Perhaps getting rid of the freeboard requirements (Section 3) for carriers without armored boxes? And instead add a seakeeping (at least 1.0) requirement?

It's a possibility the group will decide to drop it and/or come up with something better.

The problem is that without it, it's pretty easy to exceed historical carriers.
Those superstructures did soak up some displacement.

I found back in Wesworld  including the hanger in the freeboard resulted in far more 'realistic' carriers.
Thats why the first draft SIM of Ark Royal had the +6m, and worked out really well.

But then trying to integrate with Rocky's prior work, he had the single/dual hanger effecting airgroup.
Which ALSO seems realistic.
and so I made that change,
wrote up this second draft.

Then I found the issue, realized there was a simple answer...and I thought included it in this draft.
Oops.

Anyhow, feel free to suggest "better" ways of making realistic carrier sims with a tool designed to make general battleship sims...
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: Desertfox on March 17, 2021, 03:58:09 PM
Eh, if it doesn't really add anything, its one less thing I would rather not look at, especially since its in metric and all my designs are in imperial units.

Also I keep re-reading Section 4 and I am still very much confused as to what "N" is.

Technically ALL designs are supposed be in metric.
It's in the rules somewhere.  I just don't want to be the heavy over something as minor as unit of measure.

As for the "N"
Quote
Aircraft Carrier : For single engine planes, N=25 tons is used.
Seaplane Carrier : For Single or Twin engine seaplanes, N=35 tons is used.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Desertfox

Well Ark Royal was the first carrier designed with the hangars and flight deck being an integral part of the hull, which is distinct from many of the early carrier designs and most of the US and Japanese carriers with their big open hangar decks. Carriers with closed hangars did have significantly smaller airgroups than those without, so I can see the value of such a rule but only for certain carrier designs (armored/multiple hangars?).

Making sure I understand "N" correctly, I take it if the carrier has 25 or less aircraft then use 25t per plane, but if it has more than 25 use the N^2 t per plane correct?

I think this was missed but this was my proposal to add to Section 7:

Tender Category: For vessels tendering Six or fewer flying boat or maritime reconnaissance aircraft:
Set aside 50 tons per aircraft "supported".  Add 10 tons per crane if desired.
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

snip

There is nothing that says that designs have to be made in Metric, but that Metric will be what is used to resolve any disputes.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

The Rock Doctor

Can we have a gander at the Ark Royal sim that doesn't work?

Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 17, 2021, 05:44:25 PM
Can we have a gander at the Ark Royal sim that doesn't work?

Here it is with just +6m through deck, which worked fine until I tried to include the Rocky N3 double hanger consideration :)

It's fitted for 72 aircraft as that's what this page says : ww2ships.com/britain/gb-ac-001-b.shtml
That's also where I got the BC.  Otherwise I blended that and Wiki.
I did it in English unit to mimic the original.

It's 337standard tons over what it's supposed to be...I think that's good.

I will post it with a 7m fore/aft deck next

Quote
Enter ship name, Enter country Ark Royal laid down 1935

Displacement:
   21,669 t light; 22,377 t standard; 23,218 t normal; 23,892 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (743.12 ft / 725.00 ft) x 94.75 ft x (22.75 / 23.26 ft)
   (226.50 m / 220.98 m) x 28.88 m  x (6.93 / 7.09 m)

Armament:
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm 50.0 cal guns - 48.24lbs / 21.88kg shells, 413 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.96lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,800 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      32 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 837 lbs / 380 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   471.25 ft / 143.64 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.00" / 51 mm   471.25 ft / 143.64 m   20.41 ft / 6.22 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.00 ft / 21.95 m

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   4.50" / 114 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.50" / 89 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,066 shp / 79,871 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,515 tons

Complement:
   939 - 1,222

Cost:
   £6.470 million / $25.882 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 249 tons, 1.1 %
      - Guns: 249 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 3,602 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 837 tons, 3.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 712 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,991 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,042 tons, 13.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,494 tons, 40.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,549 tons, 6.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,284 tons, 22.8 %
      - Hull void weights: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 5,184 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     56,039 lbs / 25,419 Kg = 1,229.9 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 7.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -1.00 ft / -0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  38.85 ft / 11.84 m,  33.85 ft / 10.32 m
      - Average freeboard:      38.48 ft / 11.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 367.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,618 Square feet or 4,331 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 591 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Misc Wt.
25t - FC
25t - LR Radio

And here it is , converted to Metric with a +7m Aft/Fore deck to reflect the most recent double hanger proposal.

I will note a number of sources say 60, then 54 operational...
and dropping the Misc Weight to 3600 from 5184 would mean a 0.95 comp hull with a +12 aft/fore deck.

Quote
Enter ship name, Enter country Ark Royal laid down 1935

Displacement:
   21,669 t light; 22,377 t standard; 23,218 t normal; 23,892 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (738.81 ft / 725.00 ft) x 94.75 ft x (22.75 / 23.26 ft)
   (225.19 m / 220.98 m) x 28.88 m  x (6.93 / 7.09 m)

Armament:
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm 50.0 cal guns - 48.24lbs / 21.88kg shells, 413 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.96lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,800 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      32 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 837 lbs / 380 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   471.25 ft / 143.64 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.00" / 51 mm   471.25 ft / 143.64 m   20.41 ft / 6.22 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.00 ft / 21.95 m

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   4.50" / 114 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.50" / 89 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,066 shp / 79,871 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,515 tons

Complement:
   939 - 1,222

Cost:
   £6.470 million / $25.882 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 249 tons, 1.1 %
      - Guns: 249 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 3,602 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 837 tons, 3.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 712 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,991 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,042 tons, 13.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,494 tons, 40.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,549 tons, 6.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,284 tons, 22.8 %
      - Hull void weights: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 5,184 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     59,784 lbs / 27,117 Kg = 1,312.1 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -1.00 ft / -0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  29.63 ft / 9.03 m,  24.25 ft / 7.39 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  41.80 ft / 12.74 m,  41.80 ft / 12.74 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  41.80 ft / 12.74 m,  41.80 ft / 12.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  18.83 ft / 5.74 m,  18.83 ft / 5.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      35.27 ft / 10.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 395.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,618 Square feet or 4,331 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 629 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.57
      - Overall: 1.01
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Misc Wt.
25t - FC
25t - LR Radio

Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

Side note : the point of raising this issue now is that no-one seems to have carrier yet.
So we have time to tinker and provide a range of options for the group to play with.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The Rock Doctor

I understand the Ark's flight deck was 20m above water, so what happens if you actually raise the freeboard up that high?

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on March 17, 2021, 06:26:49 PM
Side note : the point of raising this issue now is that no-one seems to have carrier yet.
So we have time to tinker and provide a range of options for the group to play with.
Of course.

And, I mean, I've planned out when I want to build carriers so that's good.

Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 17, 2021, 06:42:23 PM
I understand the Ark's flight deck was 20m above water, so what happens if you actually raise the freeboard up that high?

...bad things...
even with no airgroup, a .94 comp hull

It was pretty evident a compromise of some sort needed to be made.
That's why I'm not stuck on +freeboard must = hanger height.
Instead I'm going for +freeboard displacement = compensation for hangers and flightdecks and galley decks...

But you asked..so :
Quote
Enter ship name, Enter country Ark Royal laid down 1935

Displacement:
   21,669 t light; 22,377 t standard; 23,218 t normal; 23,892 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (755.60 ft / 725.00 ft) x 94.75 ft x (22.75 / 23.26 ft)
   (230.31 m / 220.98 m) x 28.88 m  x (6.93 / 7.09 m)

Armament:
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm 50.0 cal guns - 48.24lbs / 21.88kg shells, 413 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.96lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1,800 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     4 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      32 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
     8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 837 lbs / 380 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   471.25 ft / 143.64 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.00" / 51 mm   471.25 ft / 143.64 m   20.41 ft / 6.22 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.00 ft / 21.95 m

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   4.50" / 114 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.50" / 89 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,066 shp / 79,871 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,515 tons

Complement:
   939 - 1,222

Cost:
   £6.470 million / $25.882 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 249 tons, 1.1 %
      - Guns: 249 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 3,602 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 837 tons, 3.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 712 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,991 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,042 tons, 13.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,494 tons, 40.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,549 tons, 6.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,284 tons, 22.8 %
      - Hull void weights: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 5,184 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,780 lbs / 18,044 Kg = 873.1 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.96
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 19.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -1.00 ft / -0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m,  65.62 ft / 20.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      65.62 ft / 20.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 620.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,618 Square feet or 4,331 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 342 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.42
      - Longitudinal: 16.85
      - Overall: 0.61
   Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Misc Wt.
25t - FC
25t - LR Radio
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The Rock Doctor

Does it make any difference if some - say, half - of the air group weight is below water?  Like, the avgas and bombs and that jazz?

Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on March 17, 2021, 07:11:38 PM
Does it make any difference if some - say, half - of the air group weight is below water?  Like, the avgas and bombs and that jazz?

Hullspace declines to 94% but otherwise no.

I played with a number of concepts.
Like I said elsewhere, not addressing hanger/flight deck weight seems to result in overdone carriers.

Since on some carriers the (lower) hanger was 'partially' in hull, I've thought of half height for the first hanger, and full height for the next.

That led to the idea that the hanger structures could be lighter built, so substituting 3m of freeboard for 6m of hanger might be a reasonable sim.

Which led to the tinkering that found ...+7 m for 2 hangers made Ark Royal work.
Which led to the +3.5m thing.
Heck I can go with +3m freeboard = 6m hanger if that's easier for folks.  It's close to the same result.

Note : I changed from requiring the full through deck to the aft/fore modeling both because it's a bit simpler, and it gave ways to play with flying off decks and those "flight deck cruisers" Snip pointed out we plan for so people can be creative.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The Rock Doctor

Fair enough.

Maybe it's worth seeing how other two-hanger carriers fare with the draft rules and with adjustments.  I'll give Ryujo a spin and see what I get.

The Rock Doctor

As built, Ryujo's a flop with her reported freeboard (14.9 m, from which I infer 5.3 m hangars.  Hull strength is 0.77 and stability is 1.01 which corresponds with her being top heavy, though that could be trimmed.  And she was, in the original configuration I modelled her, rather badly damaged in a storm.

If I drop hanger height to 4 m, hull strength goes to .81 and if I drop it to 3 m, it goes to 0.92

On the other hand, if I adjust her dimensions to her post-repair state, with original hangar height:  She's actually pretty close to historical, and works.

Oh, and Wiki says that she was designed for 48 a/c but could operate 37 max.  The waterplane calculation says her max would be 39 so how about that.  I did build her to the 48 design, to be fair.

Ryujo (post-storm dimensions), laid down 1929

Displacement:
   10,681 t light; 10,989 t standard; 12,235 t normal; 13,232 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (596.27 ft / 574.80 ft) x 68.24 ft x (23.23 / 24.60 ft)
   (181.74 m / 175.20 m) x 20.80 m  x (7.08 / 7.50 m)

Armament:
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      24 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 758 lbs / 344 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 65,672 shp / 48,991 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,243 tons

Complement:
   581 - 756

Cost:
   £2.771 million / $11.083 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 113 tons, 0.9 %
      - Guns: 113 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 40 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,017 tons, 16.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,157 tons, 50.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,554 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,354 tons, 19.2 %
      - Hull above water: 2,304 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,183 lbs / 14,598 Kg = 514.9 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.50 ft / 9.60 m,  26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  48.88 ft / 14.90 m,  48.88 ft / 14.90 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  48.88 ft / 14.90 m,  48.88 ft / 14.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      38.92 ft / 11.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 407.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,446 Square feet or 2,364 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 181 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 476 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.77
      - Longitudinal: 10.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather




The Rock Doctor

Approximation of Argus.

Waterplane area suggests 45 aircraft can be embarked but the design was for a max of 18 in one hangar.

The effects of the a/c miscellaneous weight are minimal, even multiplied by 1.5 to reflect conversation status.  There is ample hull strength but the stability is not good and requires a lot of trimming "left".  If the fore/aft deck was 14.4 m, based on guesstimates from photos, I couldn't make stability reach 1.00.  Dropping it to 13.x allowed a 1.01.

Note that the ship was built with 600 t ballast, which is included here.  Its absence has no major effect on hull strength but knocks stability down from 1.01 to 0.99.

All this jives with Wikipedia notes that she was top-heavy and would require further ballast and such through her career.  Just as well she never got torpedoed.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914

Displacement:
   15,401 t light; 15,742 t standard; 16,155 t normal; 16,486 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (564.30 ft / 557.74 ft) x 67.91 ft x (22.97 / 23.36 ft)
   (172.00 m / 170.00 m) x 20.70 m  x (7.00 / 7.12 m)

Armament:
      6 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.62lbs / 16.16kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 214 lbs / 97 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,085 shp / 16,475 Kw = 20.51 kts
   Range 3,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 744 tons

Complement:
   716 - 931

Cost:
   £0.851 million / $3.403 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 39 tons, 0.2 %
      - Guns: 39 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 254 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 27 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 227 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 851 tons, 5.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,933 tons, 80.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 754 tons, 4.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,325 tons, 8.2 %
      - Hull below water: 600 tons
      - Hull above water: 675 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     92,634 lbs / 42,018 Kg = 2,622.6 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 9.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.652
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.50 ft / 9.60 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  42.65 ft / 13.00 m,  42.65 ft / 13.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  42.65 ft / 13.00 m,  42.65 ft / 13.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      36.62 ft / 11.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 28.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 329.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,017 Square feet or 2,696 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 478 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 205 lbs/sq ft or 1,002 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.81
      - Longitudinal: 14.81
      - Overall: 2.23
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Desertfox

After doing a bit of research I believe the "Non-aircraft carrier" aircraft limit should be raised to 22 unarmed aircraft. The Japanese converted oiler Kamoi could carry 22 Nakajima E4Ns and the British in 1923 explored ideas for "flight-deck" ocean liners capable of carrying up to 21 aircraft. I actually went ahead and built the civilian aircraft carrier back in Wesworld.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_seaplane_tender_Kamoi

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/threads/1923-british-aircraft-carrying-mail-steamer.34626/
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html