The Caicos Affair Discussion

[Jefgte]

Wow !!!
What movie!!!
I have the battle actions in my head.

=> Do the MTBs have a sufficient range to make the round trip from their base?
If not, they are all lost.

[The Rock Doctor]

This seems to reinforce the small fry narrative from the Sino-Japanese War.

[snip]

Indeed it does. This result (pending any other major clashes) probly just strangled the Totanis in the cradle. The Audax's might end up being the last Roman battleships, the Large Armored Cruisers may take over the role of capital ship. Because if the nature of defending coastlines is fill the sea with fish, I can build a lot of MTBs for how much gets sunk into a capital unit.

[The Rock Doctor]

I guess on the other hand, it's also reinforcing the narrative that maybe attackers need to spend a bit of time sanitizing their target areas before bringing in the valuable fleet units and the vulnerable transports.

[TacCovert4]

Wow !!!
What movie!!!
I have the battle actions in my head.

=> Do the MTBs have a sufficient range to make the round trip from their base?
If not, they are all lost.

They do.  The battle itself was fought from within the Caicos, so even at the worst case MTBs can ride up on the sand and await refueling, or anchor in one of the many small coves.  The great limitation of MTBs is that range extending into the blue water, and that limitation is a pretty hard limit for a while.  But in the right circumstances they can be a powerful defense....if individually fragile.

[TacCovert4]

I guess on the other hand, it's also reinforcing the narrative that maybe attackers need to spend a bit of time sanitizing their target areas before bringing in the valuable fleet units and the vulnerable transports.

As a general rule I agree.  Had my squadrons run up against a sizeable flotilla of destroyers and even small cruisers that are nimble......and they weren't tied down with defending other fleet elements, this thing could have gone very differently.  I'm thinking any attacker is going to need to let loose packs of destroyers into the MTB ranges, maybe backed up with small cruisers that can dodge torpedoes, and chop up MTBs before letting the big boys in.  But as a general rule, if your Battle fleet is 100nm from the nearest shoreline, you're probably pretty safe.

[snip]

I guess on the other hand, it's also reinforcing the narrative that maybe attackers need to spend a bit of time sanitizing their target areas before bringing in the valuable fleet units and the vulnerable transports.

The European arrogance of "We can do this better than the Japanese because reasons." was a nice flavor addition I felt. The battle between Traditional and The New School has a new talking point, and by that I mean a lot of the Traditional thinkers that backed this will last about 5 seconds in their positions after the fighting is over.

[Desertfox]

I guess on the other hand, it's also reinforcing the narrative that maybe attackers need to spend a bit of time sanitizing their target areas before bringing in the valuable fleet units and the vulnerable transports.

As a general rule I agree.  Had my squadrons run up against a sizeable flotilla of destroyers and even small cruisers that are nimble......and they weren't tied down with defending other fleet elements, this thing could have gone very differently.  I'm thinking any attacker is going to need to let loose packs of destroyers into the MTB ranges, maybe backed up with small cruisers that can dodge torpedoes, and chop up MTBs before letting the big boys in.  But as a general rule, if your Battle fleet is 100nm from the nearest shoreline, you're probably pretty safe.

That's the Japanese plan for dealing with MTBs, hunt them down and eliminate them before sending in the big boys. Think allied hunter-killer groups during the Battle of the Atlantic.

That said, the 2nd Battle of Jeju showed that MTB strikes can be defeated, both Chinese MTB strikes where wiped out with limited damage done by the MTBs. It was the massive third destroyer strike, that crushed the screen first, that did the bulk of the damage.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Foxy is correct,
The last Cheju-Do battle, his layers of defenders eliminated the Chinese MTB force.
They were able to partially able to reposition to damage the Chinese coming from the opposite direction,
though I think there were a couple successful runs. 

That scattered the Japanese all over.

The final wave was from the open ocean, and late to arrive, but was destroyers (as MTBs couldn't make that) in front
of the Chinese fleet. The Japanese battlecruisers actually sunk a fair number of destroyers, and then took a fair amount of damage.

Foxy's tactics I adapted for the Roman commander, but the Romans lacked the resources to make them fully effective - they still got 30 vessels. Pretty darn good.

Hence my comment that another 10 E-Class probably would have changed that result, won the Romans that battle.


As for the Miracle weapon of the MTB,
Well Parthia currently has 256 of those, and 240 of the older torpedo boats they are replacing. We believe in them for close defense.
But we also don't intend on starting a war by sailing our invasion fleet within range of enemy MTBs and anchoring.

First get command of the seas, and Recon in force, then send in the slow transports that have to be protected.

[snip]

However this wraps up, its probly done enough to make the mear thought of an amphibious landing after this conflict enough to throw the offending officer out of a planning meeting. At least for the Caicos, I ether take it "now" while I can attempt to block resupply or I imagine it sprouts forts like a bad breakout at which point why bother.

[Kaiser Kirk]

However this wraps up, its probly done enough to make the mear thought of an amphibious landing after this conflict enough to throw the offending officer out of a planning meeting. At least for the Caicos, I ether take it "now" while I can attempt to block resupply or I imagine it sprouts forts like a bad breakout at which point why bother.

Heh "Fort Acne" " Fort Pimple"  "Fort Blackhead"  "Fort Pustule"
'Bad news, you're being sent to Fort Pustule...."

[snip]

Hey, at least this view saves me having to ever research any amphib tech, since I need to play some catchup on mines and night fighting :P

[The Rock Doctor]

Okay, the tech rules for MTBs only specific cruise speeds.  What is their actual peak/attack speed?

[TacCovert4]

I'm not entirely sure what Kirk's using, but I'd probably go with maximum cruise something between 10 and 25 percent.

[Desertfox]

I think Kirk mentioned 34kts at some point.