Ethiopian Navy

[Jefgte]

... Larger warships are more capable of projecting force out to overseas colonies than torpedo craft. He isn't giving in-character instructions..

In other words, that's what I meant.

[AnchorSteam]

... Larger warships are more capable of projecting force out to overseas colonies than torpedo craft. He isn't giving in-character instructions..

In other words, that%u2019s what I meant.

Aw darn, I'm sorry!
I thought we were already getting into the chatter among world-leaders part, Role-Playing. My bad.... but I do like to play the twerp making a brave stand.


And, it turns out that I totally fucked up my own fleet-making here.

I thought I had tonnage to play with up to 1910, but it turns out I was wrong. It was staring me in the face the whole time, but it never really registered. I had over 120,000 tons for 1900-1906, and only about 20,000 for the next 6 years. I guess everyone went on strike for 5 years.

Had that last category set for my best series of DDs, but that's out now.  I won't let your work go to waste, I will take one of each of these 1910 Cruisers  (is there such a thing as "medium" cruisers?  ;) ) and maybe go from there.

Result- one of the heavier-firepower version from Desertfox and the one from Kaiser Kirk with the long legs.

Looks like I have 37,000 tons of pre-1907 stuff to get with a max of 255mm guns for them. Meh, I'll figure it out. Time to take a look at the older submissions. Looks like a couple of Von Der Tann will fit the bill nicely.

Hey Jefgate, looks like you were right. Armed Transports and fewer DDs will probably be the order of the day.   ::)

[AnchorSteam]

well.... that was a long night!

The new (provisional) OOB

<= 1897
5 auxiliaries for 150,000tons naval support  (15k)
3 minelaying cruisers,.. (2146 x 3 = 6,438tons)
15 minesweepers... (15 x 250 = 3,730)



1898-1903
12 rail-transport gunboats....(49 x 12 = 588 tons)
48 345 ton torpedoboats - modified from the japanese design%u2026. (345t. x 48 = 16,560 tons)
3  Gunboat/monitors....  4,000 x 3 = 12,000tons)
2  Bismarck CA,.. 2 x 15,783  = 31,566 tons

   537t. unused


1904-1906
2 (mini) Von Der Tann %u2026.  29, 720
3 CLs... 12,000
24 x 500-ton DDs.... 12,000

- unused (waiting for a special order for a 1903 BA)


1907-1913
1 Pisa/Hut BC, 2 x Medium Cruisers = 21,210 tons  (both from this page)
27  MTBs, 540 tons

A very satisfying recovery.

Okay.... baring any fresh disasters, I am ready to start learning how to play this game.
Whew!

[Jefgte]

Byzantine SC2 & AC3

You could made adjustments  ;)

[AnchorSteam]

Byzantine SC2 & AC3

You could made adjustments  ;)

Thanks, but I had 4 screens going at once most of the night, I think I'm good with what I have! And even if they have flaws, that's fine, this navy is bound to have its share of glitches. I have to move on and dig into the rules.

.... once I get my OOBs and Stations cleared up, that is.

BTW - those docs can't be read by my mac, and there is no app in the store for them either.
Actually,  I went with a different SC anyway, it fit the year better

EDIT --

Okay, I have the new OOB set for each location, and the winning types are located under ship classes and have a line that looks like this if they were accepted and one that looks like this if I had to turn them down.

Still waiting on that custom BA......  and, somehow I lost the Stats for the 500-ton DD that I now have 2 dozen of as my only DD now.  Kirk, were you the one that showed me that, with 3 x 90mm guns?

[Kaiser Kirk]

Still waiting on that custom BA......  and, somehow I lost the Stats for the 500-ton DD that I now have 2 dozen of as my only DD now.  Kirk, were you the one that showed me that, with 3 x 90mm guns?

One of the ships proposed was a 1904 Parthian "Spear" class 500 ton DD with  3 x 90mm bearing forward through the use of Omaha style superstructure casements, and a pair of german-style forward firing torpedos firing through the forecastle cheeks.  Aft is a second set of torpedoes and a 90mm.

As a practical application thing, it's probably bow heavy and would pitch in deep ocean, but gamewise it's great for the Red Sea and still has respectable trial speed. So a good 1904 DD.

DD "Spear" 33-48

Spear, Parthia Destroyer laid down 1904

Displacement:
   499 t light; 519 t standard; 601 t normal; 666 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (231.63 ft / 228.35 ft) x 22.15 ft x (9.51 / 10.23 ft)
   (70.60 m / 69.60 m) x 6.75 m  x (2.90 / 3.12 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      Weight of broadside 88 lbs / 40 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,866 shp / 7,360 Kw = 26.30 kts
   Range 2,650nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 146 tons (93% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Trial Speed: 25.6+ 2.75 : 29kts

Complement:
   59 - 78

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.276 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 337 tons, 56.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 127 tons, 21.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 2.5 %
      - Hull void weights: 3 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     142 lbs / 64 Kg = 6.4 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.54
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 8.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.437 / 0.451
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  9.35 ft / 2.85 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.56 ft / 2.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,192 Square feet or 297 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 30 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 102 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.80
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

This  Class of Destroyers are an effort to exploit the turbine technology for further speed. The first true Destroyers rather than enlarged ocean going torpedo boats, they are Larger, faster, and better armed. They sacrifice about 1/4knt of performance for slightly better seakeeping, allowing them to operate in the Persian Ocean.

Trial Speed is : 26.3kts + 2.75 : 29.05kts

These little ships rely on boilers burning coal boilers oil sprayed coal, there is sufficient fuel for a 10 day journey, with a 10% reserve. Of the 8 boilers, 2 are 100% coal, and 6 are oil-sprayed coal. They can manage 18.71 knts on the coal fired boilers alone.

The guns are arranged with A and Y, but with  two casements in the superstructure (like the Omaha CLs)  clearance forward, giving 3 guns bearing forward, and 3 on either beam. The guns are equipped with 6mm spray shields.

Miscellaneous weight is as follows :
8t - 4x 18" mm torpedoes. Two torpedoes fire forward from the "cheeks" like an E-boat, and two on a turntable in the rear.
2t - Extra ventilation
2t - 1905 fire control
3t - Void, construction reserve



Speed with the single 100% coal fire boiler is 18.65knts, allowing virtually all peacetime activity to be done using existing coaling facilities around the Persian ocean.

Trial Speed: 25.6+ 2.75 : 29kts

1907 refit : 2t
2t + 1905 fire control

[AnchorSteam]

I'll take it!
The only issue is the turbines, which I suspect makes it impossible for them to be locally built. Upkeep is going to be difficult, but at least the last piece has fallen into place.

Yup, that's it.
I have a small BA (pre-dread) that fills the last of the tonnage out nicely, so it's time to post them both in the Navy lists.

Tomorrow.... no, Saturday I will put copies of my turn sheet so that I can show my progress and mistakes as I work through it.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'll take it!
The only issue is the turbines, which I suspect makes it impossible for them to be locally built. Upkeep is going to be difficult, but at least the last piece has fallen into place.

Yup, that's it.
I have a small BA (pre-dread) that fills the last of the tonnage out nicely, so it's time to post them both in the Navy lists.

Tomorrow.... no, Saturday I will put copies of my turn sheet so that I can show my progress and mistakes as I work through it.

The Spear class turbines are not a problem for Ethiopia, which has that 1902 technology.  It's >10% oil fire that you don't have, and that's not an issue with them.  Which is why they appeared in the Chinese navy (where they actually performed quite well in the last war).

Congrats on the slog :)

[AnchorSteam]

My timing might suck, but i forgot something.

My new navy is supposed to have 15 Minesweepers, and I don't have a design for them.

The only hard & firm requirement is a Disp. of 250 tons.
If they are simple enough to have been built here (coal only) that would be great!

Other than that, I dunno, surprise me.... ?

available guns include 45mm, 90mm and 100mm. Speed can be anywhere from 10-20 knots. and good sea-keeping would be nice... but do Minesweepers even do anything when the weather gets rough?
Hell, I'll take anything, so have fun with it.

[Kaiser Kirk]

The Ethiopians could copy & home build Parthian designs.

The 1902 version seems to fit nicesly.

https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7060.0.html

1902 date
250t
90mm gun,
90/10 Coal fired
excellent seakeeping
double hulled

and I think you'll find most folks don't even have minesweepers back then. The Norse did- China used theirs.
Not sure about the Aztecs.

[TacCovert4]

The Ethiopians could copy & home build Parthian designs.

The 1902 version seems to fit nicesly.

https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7060.0.html

1902 date
250t
90mm gun,
90/10 Coal fired
excellent seakeeping
double hulled

and I think you'll find most folks don't even have minesweepers back then. The Norse did- China used theirs.
Not sure about the Aztecs.

I forget the date of my mine warfare ships right off.  And mine are more multi role minesweeper,  mine layer, offshore patrol vessel.  I will probably be doing that as my future minesweeper as well.  An opv for universal deployment with a heavy emphasis on minesweeping and possibly asw.   Though the latter isn't important yet.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I thought I recalled seeing you have Minewarfare assets.
I remain unsure how practical it is to combine mine laying and sweeping, but that's not a field I've read much on.
I just don't recall seeing vessels kitted out that way, but that could be due to needing far more sweepers than layers. 

[TacCovert4]

I thought I recalled seeing you have Minewarfare assets.
I remain unsure how practical it is to combine mine laying and sweeping, but that's not a field I've read much on.
I just don't recall seeing vessels kitted out that way, but that could be due to needing far more sweepers than layers.

I did it that way because it's a bit amateurish.

Honestly, laying offensive minefields with my MS-1 class would result in the loss of a lot of MS-1 class.  They're too slow, and you'd need to send 4-10 of them to lay an offensive minefield in any strength.  You really want a proper, relatively fast, minelayer with a relatively large capacity to do it properly.  But in a closed sea like the Caribbean, having OPVs all over the place which can drop mines and then somewhat quickly return to a harbor to load back up and repeat.....it's a possibility.

[TacCovert4]

And here it is.  Completely inadequate for a lot of tasks, really more of an OPV that can do mine warfare......

MS-1, Aztec Minesweeper laid down 1906

Displacement:
   561 t light; 580 t standard; 654 t normal; 713 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (153.52 ft / 147.64 ft) x 26.25 ft x (9.84 / 10.58 ft)
   (46.79 m / 45.00 m) x 8.00 m  x (3.00 / 3.22 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.78lbs / 13.96kg shells, 160 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 65 lbs / 30 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.26" / 32 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.26" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.26" / 32 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,941 shp / 1,448 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 134 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   64 - 84

Cost:
   £0.042 million / $0.168 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 12 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 62 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 54 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 137 tons, 21.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 168 tons, 25.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 93 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 181 tons, 27.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 181 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,029 lbs / 467 Kg = 33.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.609
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.42 ft / 3.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,834 Square feet or 263 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 171 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 5.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

25t Minesweeping Equpment

156t Mines/Rails

[AnchorSteam]

I screwed up again, should have mentioned that I was trying to fill pre-1897 slots.

I thought I recalled seeing you have Minewarfare assets.
I remain unsure how practical it is to combine mine laying and sweeping, but that's not a field I've read much on.
I just don't recall seeing vessels kitted out that way, but that could be due to needing far more sweepers than layers.

First off, I am hoping that geography has some effect on combat in this game. The south end of the Red Sea is suited to mine-warfare used defensively and the many little islands are great for TB operations... which is why the bulk of the older ones are there.
Our thinking is that since we know that mines can be so useful the other guys might know that too.

These are not just minesweepers, they can function as Patrol boats, Search & Rescue, Fishery protection and Revenue Cutters. They may even have started out that way. As such, I won't have to worry about them becoming obsolete any time soon. Mine sweeping is the one combat job such ships can do effectively, and I don't want to have to build more later.

However, that's interesting. Could they have mine-racks of their own? For more than just ten or so mines, I mean.