Ethiopian Navy

Started by Kaiser Kirk, August 08, 2020, 12:56:44 PM

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AnchorSteam

And our first contestant is....

Oh, wow, a mini-Scharnhorst! At that weight, I could have 3 instead of 2. That would solve a lot of issues, I might even be able to stop worrying about ACs and so on.

The problem is, I don't think the range would allow it to go Commerce Raiding, I should re-state that in the OP.... or is that even allowed in this game?

Still open, but this sure gives me a lot to think about. Good job!

Quote from: Desertfox on August 10, 2020, 08:10:26 PM
Pocket VdT, Ethiopian Cruiser laid down 1910

Displacement:
   6,163 t light; 6,444 t standard; 6,765 t normal; 7,021 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (410.00 ft / 410.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (21.00 / 21.60 ft)
   (124.97 m / 124.97 m) x 16.76 m  x (6.40 / 6.58 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 179.46lbs / 81.40kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 179.46lbs / 81.40kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.43lbs / 10.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,750 lbs / 794 kg
............ ............ ............ ...........................................
our motto; apocalypse NOW

Desertfox

#46
EDIT: Fix the all-oil firing problem, lost some of the mines.

With a bit more range:

Pocket VdT, Ethiopian Cruiser laid down 1910

Displacement:
   6,235 t light; 6,523 t standard; 7,087 t normal; 7,539 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (410.00 ft / 410.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (22.00 / 23.05 ft)
   (124.97 m / 124.97 m) x 16.76 m  x (6.71 / 7.03 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 179.46lbs / 81.40kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 179.46lbs / 81.40kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.43lbs / 10.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,750 lbs / 794 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   180.00 ft / 54.86 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 30,472 shp / 22,732 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,016 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   386 - 502

Cost:
   £0.561 million / $2.242 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 381 tons, 5.4 %
      - Guns: 381 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 2,091 tons, 29.5 %
      - Belts: 1,045 tons, 14.7 %
      - Armament: 483 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 508 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,371 tons, 19.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,216 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 852 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 175 tons, 2.5 %
      - Hull above water: 80 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 30 tons
      - Above deck: 65 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,723 lbs / 3,957 Kg = 49.0 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.16 ft / 4.93 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,025 Square feet or 1,396 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 482 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

25t for Long  wireless
40t for 1905 Fire Control
30t for 8 x 18" torpedo tubes plus reloads
80t for 180 mines
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

snip

Going to need to be a 90/10 Coal/Oil mix based on what we have been asked to provide for other RFPs. Also, poor protected buoyancy reserves are jucy.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Desertfox

Fixed that issue, just edited my post above.
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

AnchorSteam

And like magic, he does it!

Nice work, unless I see something better by tomorrow night, I will be going with this.
Quantity has a quality all it's own...

Quote from: Desertfox on August 10, 2020, 08:53:11 PM
EDIT: Fix the all-oil firing problem, lost some of the mines.

With a bit more range:

Pocket VdT, Ethiopian Cruiser laid down 1910

Displacement:
   6,235 t light; 6,523 t standard; 7,087 t normal; 7,539 t full load
....
our motto; apocalypse NOW

AnchorSteam

Quote from: snip on August 10, 2020, 09:11:40 PM
Going to need to be a 90/10 Coal/Oil mix based on what we have been asked to provide for other RFPs. Also, poor protected buoyancy reserves are jucy.

What does that even mean?

Where is your design?
our motto; apocalypse NOW

Desertfox

And if you want some heavier firepower instead:

Pizza the Hutt class, Ethiopian Armored Cruiser laid down 1910

Displacement:
   9,226 t light; 9,690 t standard; 10,350 t normal; 10,878 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (22.50 / 23.36 ft)
   (140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 21.34 m  x (6.86 / 7.12 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.04" / 255 mm 45.0 cal guns - 510.24lbs / 231.44kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 179.46lbs / 81.40kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      14 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.43lbs / 10.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      Weight of broadside 3,073 lbs / 1,394 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   220.00 ft / 67.06 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 80 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,372 shp / 27,879 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,189 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   512 - 666

Cost:
   £0.832 million / $3.328 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 5.8 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 3,267 tons, 31.6 %
      - Belts: 1,482 tons, 14.3 %
      - Armament: 748 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 894 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 143 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 1,682 tons, 16.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,424 tons, 33.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,124 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 255 tons, 2.5 %
      - Hull below water: 30 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 140 tons
      - Above deck: 85 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,910 lbs / 5,856 Kg = 25.5 x 10.0 " / 255 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.36 ft / 4.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,454 Square feet or 1,993 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 584 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for Long-ranged wireless
60t for 1905 Fire Control
140t for spare
30t for 6 x 18" torpedo tubes plus reloads
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

AnchorSteam

So, two of one or three of the other....
Does this one have better underwater protection, or whatever Snip was talking about?

Everyone is advising me to get a couple of big, slower preDreads or something to make a stand with, but I don't see the logic in that. What good will one Battlewagon do me if the major powers can show up with a dozen? My preferred tactic would be to give ground until I can strike at night, and then use swarms of torpedo craft and some DDs to hold the enemy by the nose while my Cruisers and best DDs maneuver around the flanks to break his legs.

I came here to engage in Naval Battles, to play with Tactics ..... is that a part of the game, or not?
Turn-lengths of half a year make me wonder, I'd better spend a couple of days looking at the Rules before I say anything more.
our motto; apocalypse NOW

Kaiser Kirk

Folks - note on mine tonnage - Design Guidelines specifies
QuoteMines:  1 t per mine, including associated laying and storage equipment.

Opinion :
Slow battlewagons are relatively cheap - speed is expensive and also takes long/large ships. 
There the factor that most of the NPC-Player conversions are significantly far away from the original player's home fleets. 
It is difficult for them to commit substantial resources without leaving the "home fleet" low on resources.
This is why the Malta treaty has such an effect. Of course that wasn't around during this build period.
But for most of the NPCs, a capital -sized slower ship has some value.

Naval War with the Berbers is not happening. It's extremely unlikely one of the other European powers would operate an offensive war in the Red Sea.
So only 2 real 'powers' have potential in 1907.  One is my Parthia, which traditionally wants a Strong Ethiopia as a limiter on Byzantine. The other would
be Byzantine if they wanted control of both shores of the Red Sea.

Now frankly, Jefgte is really nice guy, and this game is designed for colonial conflict. So that is unlikely, but from an Ethiopian POV something to discourage.

So, Ethiopia shares the Red Sea with a major power, which has long been able to move his home fleet from the Med to the Red Sea fairly quickly and easily.
A slow and heavily armored Ethiopian PD is simply quickly faced by bigger/better armed Byzantine ships.
So in this case, I would think Ethiopia's 1907 vessels would be built to avoid being caught by Byzantine 1905-6 heavy warships.

Quote from: AnchorSteam on August 11, 2020, 06:41:53 PM
I came here to engage in Naval Battles, to play with Tactics ..... is that a part of the game, or not?
Turn-lengths of half a year make me wonder, I'd better spend a couple of days looking at the Rules before I say anything more.

Generally folks here are story development with the possibility of battle.
Snip wanted a design where the colonies are valuable, and so we can have wars over them, more than "fight for survival" in homeland vs. homeland fights.

War does/is occurring.  Both between two players and a player vs. NPC.
There are two variants of that.

A) Two or more players with a story to tell work out a storyline of a conflict. I'll review to see that the conflict falls within the available technology.

B) There is a conflict, and I wargame it out using a base of Seekrieg IV with modifications for our tech rules. I'll ask players for general orders/goals for their commanders.  Which sometimes work very planned, and in a couple cases just have not gone as envisioned. 

Torpedoes have been abberently successful in the game so far, in A by choice, in B by dice rolls.


Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

So this is a great comparison of the "price" paid for speed.
Virtually the same tonnage as Foxy's 6250 ton 8x 180mm, 25knot ship.

Close in date, 1909 vs. 1910 isn't a huge difference..with 1910 engines about 200 tons more 'stuff' could be fitted.
Coincidentally, with 1910 engines, the belt could be 150 and so the slopes of the protective deck could be 180mm..

20m longer, and 2 knots faster.
Also 8x 180mm,

but instead of a narrow 181mm main belt and a 102mm upper belt, with an overly thick 51mm protective deck...

just a protective deck - albeit 150mm on the slopes and 30mm on the crown.

In a slugging match between the two, this one looses. But she's faster, longer ranged, and better seakeeping.

That's the fun of ship design - making design trade offs :)


PC-6, Parthia Protected Cruiser Series V laid down 1909

Displacement:
   5,992 t light; 6,263 t standard; 7,023 t normal; 7,630 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492.13 ft / 475.72 ft) x 52.49 ft x (19.69 / 20.96 ft)
   (150.00 m / 145.00 m) x 16.00 m  x (6.00 / 6.39 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7.09" / 180 mm 45.0 cal guns - 179.46lbs / 81.40kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,612 lbs / 731 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   342.52 ft / 104.40 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

Note : The belt represents the thicker slopes of the protective deck, for 150mm total.


   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.56" / 65 mm   2.56" / 65 mm      2.56" / 65 mm
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 37,868 shp / 28,250 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 7,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,366 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   383 - 498

Cost:
   £0.616 million / $2.464 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 410 tons, 5.8 %
      - Guns: 410 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 1,386 tons, 19.7 %
      - Belts: 810 tons, 11.5 %
      - Armament: 189 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 358 tons, 5.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,875 tons, 26.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,993 tons, 28.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,031 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 328 tons, 4.7 %
      - Hull void weights: 48 tons
      - Hull above water: 160 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 54 tons
      - Above deck: 66 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,159 lbs / 2,794 Kg = 34.6 x 7.1 " / 180 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  20.51 ft / 6.25 m,  20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Aft deck:   32.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   13.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.86 ft / 5.14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,638 Square feet or 1,546 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 400 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Intended as a Protected  Cruiser for the fleet
The vessel is fitted with a protective deck, 90mm on the slopes and 25mm on the flat

41t - 1905 Fire Control
25t - Long Range Radio
30t - 0.5% increased ventilation
24t - Torpedoes 4 xT2 (8)
160t - minedeck on 2nd deck aft, 2 mine rails w/80 mines ea. drop through ports in stern
22t - construction reserve remaining

+6.25 Forecastle deck
+3.75 Weather Deck
+1.25 2nd deck, top of main belt, protective deck
-1.25  Bottom of main belt, 1st deck
-4.75  Engineering Deck
-5.26 : Bilges, double bottom
-6.0 : Keel

Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Desertfox

Advice is just that, advice. Everyone has a different way of doing things, but its up to you to decide which direction you want to go. Slow pre-dreads are useful for certain people and places, but not so for others. If you don't find them useful, you don't have to go that way.

I will just point out that swarms of torpedo craft have already proven quite effective, and people are already looking into countermeasures, so its something to keep in mind going forward. And as the one that took the brunt of them, my approach is significantly different that everyone else.
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

AnchorSteam

#56
Well, it is good to know that I didn't make the wrong choice, just a different one. I would have had to shelve the CAs to get one Radetzky or a Vermont.

I will probably get two of one and one of the other kind, but I will leave this open for one more day.

Then I have to go back and see if I have any tonnage left for CLs....
our motto; apocalypse NOW

Jefgte

#57
QuoteNaval War with the Berbers is not happening. It's extremely unlikely one of the other European powers would operate an offensive war in the Red Sea.
So only 2 real 'powers' have potential in 1907.  One is my Parthia, which traditionally wants a Strong Ethiopia as a limiter on Byzantine. The other would
be Byzantine if they wanted control of both shores of the Red Sea.

Byzantium is in charge of free passage through the Suez Canal for members of the Malta Treaty.
The Ethiopian Pirates of the Red Sea were eliminated by Byzantium in 1910-1911. The area is now secure.
Byzantium will further increase, if necessary, its means of enforcing this free passage.

QuoteNow frankly, Jefgte is really nice guy, ...
:) ;) :D ;D

QuoteSo, Ethiopia shares the Red Sea with a major power, which has long been able to move his home fleet from the Med to the Red Sea fairly quickly and easily.
A slow and heavily armored Ethiopian PD is simply quickly faced by bigger/better armed Byzantine ships.
So in this case, I would think Ethiopia's 1907 vessels would be built to avoid being caught by Byzantine 1905-6 heavy warships.

Exellent Analysis  :)

I think TorpedoBoats / Destroyers would be most effective in this narrow sea.
Now, if Ethiopia wants to acquire exterior colonies, Ethiopia could consider limiting the number of "Red Sea torpedo boats" and increasing the number of this AC - CL & transports...
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

AnchorSteam

Quote from: Jefgte on August 12, 2020, 07:37:01 AMByzantium is in charge of free passage through the Suez Canal for members of the Malta Treaty.
The Ethiopian Pirates of the Red Sea were eliminated by Byzantium in 1910-1911. The area is now secure.
Byzantium will further increase, if necessary, its means of enforcing this free passage.

The current Emperor was not in office at that time.
The conclusion of the Piracy affair is something you may not be aware of. All Pirate survivors that managed to escape you and make it back to our territory and subjected to the "twice punished" regimen. After a public flogging (for losing to you) they were forced to make a choice (for persisting with Piracy in the age of steam) and all those that chose to do so were allowed to join the Navy.... as Enlisted men.   :-X  The alternative to that choice is not known, but none of those that refused enlistment have been seen or heard from since.

The matter of free-pasage in peacetime is considered closed, and all ports are opened to free trade with any nation on Earth at this time.

Quote from: Jefgte on August 12, 2020, 07:37:01 AMNow, if Ethiopia wants to acquire exterior colonies, Ethiopia could consider limiting the number of "Red Sea torpedo boats" and increasing the number of this AC - CL & transports...

Excuse you?

Ethiopia has enough to do one the Home Front, but that does make me wonder if we can do a little better than that one lame little colony that is so far away. I was considering putting it up for sale, but now....
The very idea that an outside power is telling us that our ability to take and maintain colonies is dependent how we distribute our ships in our own home waters is , shall we say.... controversial?

And before the usual stuff begins, feel free to have a look at the old Pirate strongholds in the Dhalek* Islands, and you will see that they are under new ownership.

*yes, that is what they are actually called, I guess the BBC had a good Atlas when they were looking for crazy names.

our motto; apocalypse NOW

The Rock Doctor

That's not what Jef meant, I'm sure.  He's noting, out of character, that larger warships are more capable of projecting force out to overseas colonies than torpedo craft. He isn't giving in-character instructions.