Refreshing

[Desertfox]

How about an alternative to FC based on date:

Ships at home get automatically updated after a year, ships away have to rotate thru a home port for a half year to get updated, after 5 years every ship is considered to be upgraded?

[Kaiser Kirk]

How about an alternative to FC based on date:

Ships at home get automatically updated after a year, ships away have to rotate thru a home port for a half year to get updated, after 5 years every ship is considered to be upgraded?

Having to backtrack peoples OOBs to find out if that happened is not attractive.

I admit taking all your ships out of line, refitting them all, then having the FC-mandatory 2x as long working in period is a pain...but one that will only come up so often.

Having one critical system you need to really pay attention and update...if you want.. may be annoying, but not unreasonable...I think...

I was really wanting to verify that we as a group didn't want to have to do that with all the Misc weight categories.

[Kaiser Kirk]

For the lists of Naval Artillery, what format would you like us to record that information in?

At a minimum

What guns (bore/length) belong to which Gun Tech year.
What T&B, M, M&H, C type designs you happen to have for that.

At a maximum,
any performance notes you want to add.

I note the shell weight, figure out what that means in MV, decide if I want to derate the MV to improve barrel life/limit dispersion, and run some expected penetration.
I think that's a lot more than some.. um... everyone else... would want to do.

[Desertfox]

Having to backtrack peoples OOBs to find out if that happened is not attractive.

I admit taking all your ships out of line, refitting them all, then having the FC-mandatory 2x as long working in period is a pain...but one that will only come up so often.

I literally just got 1908 FC... Just saying its a ton of bookeeping having to go thru every SS3 report and run the numbers on every ship type that has it...

Going thru my OOB and seeing which ships are where takes me 5 minutes. Going thru and doing a refresh on every ship will take ten times that at best. I really would prefer not to have to do that, and at around 150t per ship its expensive as well.

[Jefgte]

...Going thru my OOB and seeing which ships are where takes me 5 minutes. Going thru and doing a refresh on every ship will take ten times that at best. I really would prefer not to have to do that, and at around 150t per ship its expensive as well.

I did the update, FC 1908 and TT 1908, on 42 ships, battleships and all my cruisers.
cost: 3.23 $ & 3.23 BP.

I still have the destroyers to do.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Going thru my OOB and seeing which ships are where takes me 5 minutes. Going thru and doing a refresh on every ship will take ten times that at best. I really would prefer not to have to do that, and at around 150t per ship its expensive as well.

I got 1908 FC in 1910, and have refitted most ships, now I have 1912 FC... I get it.

But this isn't a proposal for a new rule, this is the existing one.

if you look at the Ship modification rules, FC refits are built in as a presumption.
The existing rule structure has always had the provision to refit your Fire Control.

As snip pointed out, Adding Functional Misc Weight is actually a Refurbishment. Which means adding Fire Control should cost 20% of the ship tonnage, in addition to the BP.

So adding it was 20%+, and then each new tech level you were supposed to refit it.

The tonnage to refit is not high. The 20% that seems... unduly high. 

Unless there's objections I think a provision under basic refits for "bolt-on functional weight can be added or removed"

[snip]

I am against the proposal at having FC generations update automatically. The should be refit only.

[The Rock Doctor]

I thought "Adding functional miscellaneous weight" would mean literally increasing miscellaneous weight, not making use of miscellaneous weight already allocated for functional stuff.

That sounds more complicated than it should, eh?

[Kaiser Kirk]

I thought "Adding functional miscellaneous weight" would mean literally increasing miscellaneous weight, not making use of miscellaneous weight already allocated for functional stuff.

That sounds more complicated than it should, eh?

Heh, yes it turns out to be.
Since "Fire Control" was listed as something under Basic Refit, I rather thought it belonged there.
After all, it's basically bolt on, and little major alteration to ships structure needs to be made.
The one exception is ships changed their masts to provide better platforms- but that's still all above decks and doable without drydocking the ship.

My goal was not to open up the topic of changing the need to refit FC.
That's the standard rule, and has a important role on the effectiveness of warships.

My goal was to sound folks out on what the desire was to track other tech tree items by date.

I also was interested in views on when "Basic Refit" vs. "Refurbishment" would be needed.

My impression of the responses is "Less tracking is better"

I also don't hear any great objections over handling most of these as "Basic Refit".

[Desertfox]

Im with Rocky on this one, I thought the mention of fire control in basic refits was to add it to ships that had none, not to update it.

[Jefgte]

Im with Rocky on this one, I thought the mention of fire control in basic refits was to add it to ships that had none, not to update it.

I did the update on ships that already have an FC.
If the 1899 FC was 82t, the 1908 FC is 82t. no extra weight.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I did the update on ships that already have an FC.
If the 1899 FC was 82t, the 1908 FC is 82t. no extra weight.

Exactly.