General Social/Chatter Thread

[Kaiser Kirk]

Interesting.

The real question is if there was a difference in what could be mounted Externally vs. Internally armored belts.

The Italian and USN were internal, with an STS hull outside.
I don't know about the others.

Both Amagi and Kaga, I expect more web searching is needed. Carriers flared to the flight deck, so you may get a different answer for the 'as built' than in the BC version.



As I understand,
KGV did not have sloped belts.  What I have read is they felt at long ranges, there was to great a chance of the shell being deflected into the bowels of the ship and going under the belt as a result, either penetrating the TDS or exploding in it.

There was also a concern with internal sloped belts that at just the right angle it would be possible for shells to trace a route from the exterior hull and skim along the belt and go under.
That path apparently is there with the US ships.

[The Rock Doctor]

I thought KGV was vertical but the single reference I checked - Wikipedia, of course - was silent on the matter.

[Jefgte]

I thought KGV was vertical ...

Yes, vertical belt => easier to repair.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Also, external belts = easier to repair.

The question for me is - is there a limit to how much outsloping an external belt can reasonably have?


Oh, and I may - or may not- be silent for several weeks after this as I am leaving on vacation.

[The Rock Doctor]

Hopefully it's a great break from the routine.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Should be a lovely trip. :)

Battleship design and developement indicates Richelieu and Dunkerque were internal. Hood was external.
It does ay "since it is difficult to streamline a hull with a steeply inclined side, many later designs mounted their belts
internally : Dunkerque/Richeliue, Nelson, South Dakota. On the other hand, such belts were hard to repair in the event
of hull damage, and the light side plating could be torn up by torpedo hits or even by light shell fire.

NorCara apparently was external, relying on the bulge for the TDS depth, as the belt pinched the side.
SoDak and Iowa were internal with external plating.
Montana went back to external - as did KGV.

'An additional problem on inclined armor was that it became relatively easy for a steeply diving shell to dive under the lower edge
of the belt to attack the vitals. This problem began to be appreciated in Britain and in the United States during the 1930s, presumably as both
navies perfected very long range shellfire...." it continues but I've typed enough.

So there probably 'outa be' a design guideline for External Sloping Maximum.

[TacCovert4]

Probably 15 degrees,  as at battle ranges the angle of fall is typically is between 15 and 30 degrees.  Thst gives a 30 to 45 degree angle of impact which is optimal for deflection and armor maximizing. 

[The Rock Doctor]

I've got some at 16 degrees.  I'm not hung up on that, but if the consensus is to go with a lower angle, I'd like to tweak the ships which are over.  Just adjust the belt height slightly and push the weight savings to miscellaneous weight.

[Jefgte]

...push the weight savings to miscellaneous weight.

I agree.

No problemo for Byzantine Battleships, they don't use sloped belt but vertical external belt, easy & quickly repaired.

[TacCovert4]

I've got some at 16 degrees.  I'm not hung up on that, but if the consensus is to go with a lower angle, I'd like to tweak the ships which are over.  Just adjust the belt height slightly and push the weight savings to miscellaneous weight.

Maybe make it 18 degrees then.   Take it right to thr edge of unrealistic

[The Rock Doctor]

That's the spirit!

[Desertfox]

How about tilting it the other way, more tumblehome style? Anyone try that? Like the old protected cruisers.

[Jefgte]

Family holidays in Bretagne.
Irregular Navalism connections.
Back aboard Saturday.

Jef  ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

Have fun.

I was out over the weekend, myself.

[The Rock Doctor]

Wifey and I are heading out to the Canadian maritime provinces for a ten day road trip.

Part of that time will be spent on the shores of Bras d'Or Lake, and I thought, "What ever happened to the experimental hydrofoil named after that lake?"

Turns out that HMCS Bras d'Or is preserved at the Maritime Museum of Quebec, on our route and about five hours from here.  Unfortunately, access to both her and an icebreaker are suspended due to COVID and construction, so I'll skip the museum this year and do it another time when I can get aboard and poke around to my heart's content.

Still trying to figure out how an ASW hydrofoil would've worked, and what equipment it would've had.