Design competition for the Inca Empire

[maddox]

Why do I feel bad now?

[snip]

The proposed designs have a very small protected volume against large-caliber fire. That would concern Roman designers greatly.

[TacCovert4]

Which does beg the question, how do we determine how much warships a port can support?

Snip deliberately removed that tracking aspect pre-game.
Any region with IC can automatically support as many ships as you cram there.

Regions without IC... not so much.
Where Port Symbols are you can expect several thousand tons of mercantile coal, fresh water, tinned food, and some dockside facilities.
Do not expect oil or munitions.

You can make an arrangement with a PC or NPC to use their port symbols  IC to stockpile stores ahead of time, including oil fuel.
Basically you lease warehouse space and put a bunch of drums there.

Or you immediately start building fleet tenders that can cross vast distances and keep everything fueled.  LSS-1 Sojourner Class can support 34,000t off ship per tender.  And eventually these will be 'smallish' ones I think. 

[maddox]

The proposed designs have a very small protected volume against large-caliber fire. That would concern Roman designers greatly.

Pre battle the Fingers would be released. Also, the Inca are thinking pure defense in this.  In theory the Fingers could get to the coast and beach themselfs if needs be.

[snip]

Or you immediately start building fleet tenders that can cross vast distances and keep everything fueled.  LSS-1 Sojourner Class can support 34,000t off ship per tender.  And eventually these will be 'smallish' ones I think.

And thats why my Pacific possessions will be minimal

[TacCovert4]

Or you immediately start building fleet tenders that can cross vast distances and keep everything fueled.  LSS-1 Sojourner Class can support 34,000t off ship per tender.  And eventually these will be 'smallish' ones I think.

And thats why my Pacific possessions will be minimal

Curse of starting late.  I have only one direction I can logically expand near home.  If it was 1HY01, I'd be snapping up everything in the Caribbean.  Without that, I have to get what I can get.  I now know how Otto von Bismarck felt.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Curse of starting late.  I have only one direction I can logically expand near home.  If it was 1HY01, I'd be snapping up everything in the Caribbean.  Without that, I have to get what I can get.  I now know how Otto von Bismarck felt.

Sorry,
I could see that problem developing, so started modest NPC expansion.
It would have been interesting to start with the new expansion at the 1910.0 point, but that was not a viable option.

[maddox]

A refit of the Moctezuma class, an Aztec battleship, as battletender for the Inca.
A mobile MTB base with some teeth. Carries 2 hands of MTB's + spares.

Displacement:
   9,211 t light; 9,701 t standard; 10,197 t normal; 10,594 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (410.11 ft / 410.11 ft) x 68.90 ft x (22.97 / 23.67 ft)
   (125.00 m / 125.00 m) x 21.00 m  x (7.00 / 7.21 m)

Armament:
      2 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.52lbs / 306.41kg shells, 149 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1900 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline forward
      18 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 10.56lbs / 4.79kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      14 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,432 lbs / 1,557 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.64 ft / 45.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 2.76" / 70 mm  Quarter deck: 2.76" / 70 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9,859 ihp / 7,355 Kw = 17.50 kts
   Range 3,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 894 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   506 - 659

Cost:
   £0.763 million / $3.054 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 605 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 605 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 3,306 tons, 32.4 %
      - Belts: 1,667 tons, 16.4 %
      - Armament: 446 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,014 tons, 9.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 179 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 1,541 tons, 15.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,716 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 986 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,044 tons, 10.2 %
      - Hull above water: 300 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 604 tons
      - Above deck: 140 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,524 lbs / 6,134 Kg = 20.2 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.39 ft / 4.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,719 Square feet or 1,832 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 536 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.80
      - Overall: 1.03
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather



50t for Long and short-ranged wireless and flagship accomodations
90t for 1908 Fire Control

240t - Fuel and Stores for Torpedo Boats
480t - 6 x 40t TB
100t - Crane and Winches/fitments for towing barges
60t - Additional DC Equipment
24t - 8 x 21in TT

[Kaiser Kirk]

A refit of the Moctezuma class, an Aztec battleship, as battletender for the Inca.
A mobile MTB base with some teeth. Carries 2 hands of MTB's + spares.

Interesting.
The Parthians have been trying to decide what to do with their Six old Mus-sagTorpedo-boat carriers.
The 2nd Sino-Japanese war's success probably means they will refit them.
Currently they hold 8 of the old 60-ton TBs we're phasing out, we'll redo them for 12 of the newer MTB-As,
but I'm thinking of redoing some as seaplane carriers. Since they mount their guns in casements and already have clear deckspace, it seems a reasonable conversion.

The Mus-sag are the first entry if you are curious :
https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7046.0.html

[maddox]

With the naval battle results from the Caicos affair becoming clear, the Inca look upon their current fleet mix and know that they will need a boatload of MTB's to have enough fast responding vessels, especialy if they realise that about everybody and their mum in law will arm the ships extensively against torpedo craft.

   
One thing is for sure, the older sailing frigates and cruisers will be used as long they can get overhauls and modernisations to keep them as training vessels with a diplomatic service.

The Battletenders are an expensive experiment, and will be toroughly tested. But I don't think they will yield any constructive results for at least a year in use.

So, what direction will the Inca fleet take? Dozens of MTB?   Armored cruisers with a decent punch?  Or something new, like a Torpedo Battleship?

[Desertfox]

Large light cruisers, a few big guns to keep capital ships honest, a very heavy secondary to deal with cruisers and destroyers, armor enough to keep out cruiser guns, speed to run with the MTBs, a very good TDS, good maneuverability. And finally a glorious and courageous name to inspire fear into the enemy. Basically a ship that is both bait and can punch a hole in the enemy's screen for the MTBs, an escort for the MTBs.

[maddox]

Sounds like HMS Glorious. With armor.

[Jefgte]

This project could be interesting for Inca. Note 22t are dispo for additional armament

D10-1500, Byzantine Empire Flotilla Leader or Light Scout Cruiser laid down 1915

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 577 t standard; 1 822 t normal; 2 018 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (401,90 ft / 400,26 ft) x 37,07 ft x (10,13 / 10,87 ft)
   (122,50 m / 122,00 m) x 11,30 m  x (3,09 / 3,31 m)

Armament:
      4 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 160 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1915 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      2 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      Weight of broadside 449 lbs / 204 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29 640 shp / 22 111 Kw = 31,14 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 441 tons

Complement:
   139 - 181

Cost:
   £0,293 million / $1,171 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4,2 %
      - Guns: 77 tons, 4,2 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 910 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 427 tons, 23,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 322 tons, 17,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 79 tons, 4,3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 46 tons
      - Above deck: 33 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     509 lbs / 231 Kg = 4,7 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 11,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,424 / 0,438
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,01 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   22,00 %,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m
      - Forward deck:   20,00 %,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Aft deck:   38,00 %,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  11,15 ft / 3,40 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00 %,  11,15 ft / 3,40 m,  11,81 ft / 3,60 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,25 ft / 4,04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 277 Square feet or 862 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 72 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 155 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 0,80
      - Overall: 0,52
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for long range Marconi
8t for Top mast rangefinder
24t for 6TT x 533
22t reserved for Commodore Staff, Additional Armament or Different Material

[maddox]

Feels like a very small cruiser or a destroyer on steroids.  How would it integrate in the current Inca Fleet mix?

[Desertfox]

Here's what I had in mind, using the Saladin the Great's weapons, which the Inca could try to obtain from either the Romans or the Aztecs, depending on who ends up scrapping the ship after the war.

The Furious Yma, Inca Large Light Cruiser laid down 1916

Displacement:
   16,498 t light; 17,355 t standard; 18,315 t normal; 19,083 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (705.29 ft / 700.00 ft) x 80.00 ft (Bulges 90.00 ft) x (18.50 / 19.19 ft)
   (214.97 m / 213.36 m) x 24.38 m (Bulges 27.43 m)  x (5.64 / 5.85 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 8.27" / 210 mm 45.0 cal guns - 284.98lbs / 129.26kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 20.97lbs / 9.51kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,839 lbs / 2,649 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   485.00 ft / 147.83 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   215.00 ft / 65.53 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.50" / 38 mm   480.00 ft / 146.30 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 70.00 ft / 21.34 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 96,010 shp / 71,623 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 4,300nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,728 tons

Complement:
   786 - 1,023

Cost:
   £2.508 million / $10.031 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,155 tons, 6.3 %
      - Guns: 1,155 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 3,401 tons, 18.6 %
      - Belts: 1,232 tons, 6.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 639 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armament: 620 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 759 tons, 4.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 150 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,577 tons, 19.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,295 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,817 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,070 tons, 5.8 %
      - Hull below water: 880 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 40 tons
      - Above deck: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,367 lbs / 11,506 Kg = 37.9 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   35.00 %,  30.00 ft / 9.14 m,  30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      23.50 ft / 7.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 189.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,082 Square feet or 3,631 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 672 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

150t for FC + LR Wireless
40t Spare
880 for Electric Drive