Design competition for the Inca Empire

Started by maddox, May 01, 2020, 01:12:24 AM

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Desertfox

Rodney and Nisshin Maru had a one-night stand. Rodney layout out front, whaling ship style ramp in the back. End belt covers the MTB storage area.

Rodshin, Japan/Inca Battletender laid down 1915

Displacement:
   18,635 t light; 19,761 t standard; 20,429 t normal; 20,963 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (573.88 ft / 570.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (22.40 / 22.87 ft)
   (174.92 m / 173.74 m) x 30.48 m  x (6.83 / 6.97 m)

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,383.70lbs / 627.63kg shells, 130 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1915 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      1 raised mount
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,726 lbs / 4,412 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     160.00 ft / 48.77 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 73 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.00" / 25 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.00 ft / 24.38 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,106 shp / 9,777 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,203 tons

Complement:
   853 - 1,110

Cost:
   £2.275 million / $9.101 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,660 tons, 8.1 %
      - Guns: 1,660 tons, 8.1 %
   Armour: 5,791 tons, 28.3 %
      - Belts: 2,445 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 220 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armament: 1,611 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,338 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 177 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 496 tons, 2.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,097 tons, 39.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,794 tons, 8.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,590 tons, 12.7 %
      - Hull below water: 1,870 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 520 tons
      - Above deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,774 lbs / 18,948 Kg = 30.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 8.4 ft / 2.6 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarter deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,155 Square feet or 3,730 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 854 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

200t for 1908  FC and LR Wireless
440t for space/supplies for 10 MTBs and
80t for one 40t winch/ramp (whaling factory ship style)
1870t for Out-of-port Resupply
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

Desertfox

Same idea but now its the front end of Minas Geraes.

Minas Maru, Japan/Inca Battletender laid down 1913

Displacement:
   17,902 t light; 18,995 t standard; 19,699 t normal; 20,262 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (573.88 ft / 570.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (21.60 / 22.09 ft)
   (174.92 m / 173.74 m) x 30.48 m  x (6.58 / 6.73 m)

Armament:
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      1 raised mount
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1913 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8,395 lbs / 3,808 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     160.00 ft / 48.77 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 73 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.00" / 25 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.00 ft / 24.38 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,783 shp / 11,774 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,267 tons

Complement:
   830 - 1,080

Cost:
   £1.562 million / $6.249 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,489 tons, 7.6 %
      - Guns: 1,489 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 5,853 tons, 29.7 %
      - Belts: 2,445 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 220 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armament: 1,677 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,338 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 173 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 618 tons, 3.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,452 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,797 tons, 9.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,490 tons, 12.6 %
      - Hull below water: 1,790 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 520 tons
      - Above deck: 180 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42,299 lbs / 19,187 Kg = 49.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 8.4 ft / 2.6 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarter deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,155 Square feet or 3,730 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 794 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

180t for 1908  FC and LR Wireless
440t for space/supplies for 10 MTBs and
80t for one 40t winch/ramp (whaling factory ship style)
1790t for Out-of-port Resupply
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: maddox on June 24, 2020, 06:33:38 PM


The wished project. A Costal defence base.


  • Able to meet battleships of the same era on equal terms as a coastal defender.
  • Support the 2 hands of MTB's or more carried behind armor.  (10 MTB A)

The Parthians still have six torpedo-boat carrying cruisers, but have not explored the possibility of embarking a squadron on a dreadnaught armored ship.
Our designers have initial concerns that the large space required for this will be difficult to armor versus even cruisers. A further concern is the flammables present in a large enclosed space and the damage control difficulties.
Lastly, we consider coastal vessels to be of modest size and draft, which would be difficult to match to our most recent Battleship class, or even it's predecessor.

We thank you for the inquiry and opportunity, we will have our design staff examine the issue.


Note : 1905 MTB-As have been ruled Pregame as 20m long.
I have not found any real life match for the N7 MTB parameters. 
The British Coastal Motor Boat 55ft has the right number of torpedoes, and is of the right general era, so I used that for a max speed of 34 knots - as the chart does not list max speeds. However, It is only 11 tons.

I have tried to work out their dimensions beyond that, but it's hard as they don't springsharp well.
A 20m x 2.75m x 1.75m hull with .477 BC carrying 1000nm @10 knts is 40tons light.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

Quote from: Desertfox on June 24, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
440t for space/supplies for 10 MTBs and

for 10x 40t, you'll need 800t.
Boats:  Typical ship's boats are part of fittings.  Extra boats, landing craft, or attack craft require 2 t of miscellaneous weight per tonne of boat weight:  the difference accounts for cranes and hull reinforcements.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Desertfox

I thought that was if you had individual cranes per boat? And if you were paying for the boats as part of the ship? What if you are paying for them separately?
"We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

maddox

Even 1000 ton for the boats would be normal, as the ship is also the port/drydock/base for those 2 hands. The crews need somewere to live, don't they?

TacCovert4

Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on June 24, 2020, 11:37:45 PM

Note : 1905 MTB-As have been ruled Pregame as 20m long.
I have not found any real life match for the N7 MTB parameters. 
The British Coastal Motor Boat 55ft has the right number of torpedoes, and is of the right general era, so I used that for a max speed of 34 knots - as the chart does not list max speeds. However, It is only 11 tons.

I have tried to work out their dimensions beyond that, but it's hard as they don't springsharp well.
A 20m x 2.75m x 1.75m hull with .477 BC carrying 1000nm @10 knts is 40tons light.

If you look at MAS boats, you'll find something roughly in the ballpark of the 20t boats.  And roughly in the era. 

http://navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_cf_mas411.htm

Seems to be in that '20m' length, but less draft and beam in general.  About right for the speed and range, though it's noting 25nm at 50kts (the 5 is an obvious typo that's present on several of these entries). 
His Most Honorable Majesty,  Ali the 8th, Sultan of All Aztecs,  Eagle of the Sun, Jaguar of the Sun, Snake of the Sun, Seal of the Sun, Whale of the Sun, Defender of the Faith, Keeper of the Teachings of Allah most gracious and merciful.

Kaiser Kirk

    Quote from: Desertfox on June 24, 2020, 11:55:16 PM
    I thought that was if you had individual cranes per boat? And if you were paying for the boats as part of the ship? What if you are paying for them separately?

    The wording has been in the Ship Design guidelines since the start of N7, if not before.
    Miscellaneous weight is about both weight and the hull space it takes up and so is reflected in SS.
    It the MTBs are to be part of the ship's standard loadout, then you buy them with the ship.

    Now, if there is a concern that there are 10 existing MTB-As, and you don't want to build new ones,
    we can probably come up with a note and -400tons for the turn sheet, but the SS needs to show the 2x tonnage.
    They can be substituted  with new construction later - my Torpedo Boat Carriers  are not carrying the 1894 TBs, but the 1904 ones.


    Quote from: maddox on June 25, 2020, 02:53:32 AM
    Even 1000 ton for the boats would be normal, as the ship is also the port/drydock/base for those 2 hands. The crews need somewere to live, don't they?
    Foxy included Tender weight, though far far more than needed.
    If you consider an navy like the Germans, which had fairly short ranged ships and the crews slept in barracks ashore, then tender weight would not be needed.

    For coastal defenses, that might suit the Incans.

    On the other hand, the Parthian Torpedo Boat Carriers were meant to go to where ever the fight/harbor was loiter with the battlefleet and then launch a strike at an opportune momement.
    So tender abilities were needed.

    Quote from: maddox on June 24, 2020, 06:33:38 PM
    • Support the 2 hands of MTB's or more carried behind armor.  (10 MTB A)

    Quote from: Kaiser Kirk on June 24, 2020, 11:37:45 PM

    If you look at MAS boats, you'll find something roughly in the ballpark of the 20t boats.  And roughly in the era. 


    I should have phrased of "N7 MTB-A parameters", I've found the MAS you pointed out, haven't explored higher on the tech tree. The tech tree manages to omit what their maximum speed is, or how much damage they take, so I had to go find a comparable for speed, and a hull for damage.

    The RFP says MTB A, which are the 40 tonners.
    I'd be a little surprised if the Inca wanted the MAS type 20tonners, as the South Pacific is not as calm as the Med or Adriatic.

    I do have a concern about the MTB-B type, they would be available at the earliest in 1910, which would mean 1908 DD tech.  Which neither Japan nor Inca have (or Parthia).
    For all technologies included on the ship, you have to have the tech completed before you can design the ship to use them.
    Did they beat the drum slowly,
    Did they play the fife lowly,
    Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
    Did the band play the last post and chorus,
    Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

    Desertfox

    QuoteThe wording has been in the Ship Design guidelines since the start of N7, if not before.
    Miscellaneous weight is about both weight and the hull space it takes up and so is reflected in SS.
    It the MTBs are to be part of the ship's standard loadout, then you buy them with the ship.

    Now, if there is a concern that there are 10 existing MTB-As, and you don't want to build new ones,
    we can probably come up with a note and -400tons for the turn sheet, but the SS needs to show the 2x tonnage.
    They can be substituted  with new construction later - my Torpedo Boat Carriers  are not carrying the 1894 TBs, but the 1904 ones.
    Gotcha, thats what I was planning on doing with my own tenders, subtracting the MTB cost since they where built separately, just wanted to confirm that was the case.

    QuoteFoxy included Tender weight, though far far more than needed.
    If you consider an navy like the Germans, which had fairly short ranged ships and the crews slept in barracks ashore, then tender weight would not be needed.
    Well... that tender weight was so the battletender could support itself, without a port, so I do have to add tender weight for the MTB themselves. I was going with MTB-A  as the carried MTBs.
    "We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

    http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

    TacCovert4

    Fortunately, 1 40t = 2 20t.  So you can in theory design the ship for the correct Tonnage of boats prior to the tech coming into play to allow you to build maybe the type of boat that you'd personally prefer for the ship.  It's a fitment change which could occur in a dockside to change out cradles and such.  At least to change Down to 20t from 40t TBs.  Now to go UP from 20t to 40t TBs, one might argue that you'd need a tiny refit because you have to change the handling equipment entirely as cranes for 20t TBs aren't for 40t TBs.  But that might be nitpicking too much to specify which TBs can be serviced by which tenders, and it might be simplest to say that a ship can load either one or the other but not both types simultaneously.
    His Most Honorable Majesty,  Ali the 8th, Sultan of All Aztecs,  Eagle of the Sun, Jaguar of the Sun, Snake of the Sun, Seal of the Sun, Whale of the Sun, Defender of the Faith, Keeper of the Teachings of Allah most gracious and merciful.

    TacCovert4

    Quote from: Desertfox on June 25, 2020, 01:00:51 PM

    Well... that tender weight was so the battletender could support itself, without a port, so I do have to add tender weight for the MTB themselves. I was going with MTB-A  as the carried MTBs.

    And for MTBs it's not just 'stores weight' but also Weapons and Fuel. 

    10 x 20t MTBs would only require 20 tons in 'stores' per the tender rules. 

    But a 20t MTB will burn approximately 2t of fuel per sortie.  And torpedoes weigh 2t apiece.  So if one was to presume that you had 10 x 20t TBs, then per Division Sortie you'd need as much as 20 torpedoes and 20 tons of petrol.  Figure half of onboard torpedoes won't be launched for some reason or another on average, that's 4 Tons per 20t MTB Per Sortie.

    Which is why the MTB Tender I've been working on has over 400t dedicated to fuel and torpedo storage.
    His Most Honorable Majesty,  Ali the 8th, Sultan of All Aztecs,  Eagle of the Sun, Jaguar of the Sun, Snake of the Sun, Seal of the Sun, Whale of the Sun, Defender of the Faith, Keeper of the Teachings of Allah most gracious and merciful.

    Kaiser Kirk

    Quote from: Desertfox on June 25, 2020, 01:00:51 PM

    QuoteFoxy included Tender weight, though far far more than needed.
    If you consider an navy like the Germans, which had fairly short ranged ships and the crews slept in barracks ashore, then tender weight would not be needed.
    Well... that tender weight was so the battletender could support itself, without a port, so I do have to add tender weight for the MTB themselves. I was going with MTB-A  as the carried MTBs.

    I should reiterate here that ship-specific tender weight is allowed,
    but should not be expected to be as effective as a larger dedicated tender weight, but would help ensure the ship stays 'fresh' on distant stations with minimal facilities support. 
    Basically, you're carrying a ton of spare parts and some minimal fabrication equipment.

    From a player point of view, I don't get it based on the RFP being for a "coastal defense base"

    I should also observe that my current assumption is that "cramped"/"adequate"/"excellent" ratings mean something, probably in relation to the ships habitability for long periods of time and thus crew performance.
    Did they beat the drum slowly,
    Did they play the fife lowly,
    Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
    Did the band play the last post and chorus,
    Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

    Kaiser Kirk

    Quote from: TacCovert4 on June 25, 2020, 01:05:28 PM
    Fortunately, 1 40t = 2 20t.  So you can in theory design the ship for the correct Tonnage of boats prior to the tech coming into play to allow you to build maybe the type of boat that you'd personally prefer for the ship.  It's a fitment change which could occur in a dockside to change out cradles and such.  At least to change Down to 20t from 40t TBs.  Now to go UP from 20t to 40t TBs, one might argue that you'd need a tiny refit because you have to change the handling equipment entirely as cranes for 20t TBs aren't for 40t TBs.  But that might be nitpicking too much to specify which TBs can be serviced by which tenders, and it might be simplest to say that a ship can load either one or the other but not both types simultaneously.

    As player, my presumption has been that the davits and cranes for my 60TBs could handle 40t MTBs.
    ...but as one is oil/coal fired steam and the other petrol, I do not put MTBs there.

    But it would also be a 1:1 replacement.

    As a moderator :
    If you have deck 'spots' and davits for 10x 20m x 40t craft, you should be able to put 10 x 20m x 20t there.
    That does not mean you have the space for 20 x 20m x 20t.

    If they are under armor, having large hinged ports is unlikely, so I would expect a crane -> rails -> under armor system.  Something like mine rails in reverse.
    That would be very "spot" sensitive.

    Both those scenarios lead to the conclusion that the type matters.

    We recently had a long conversation in Meeting room about what needed upgrades and what does not.
    The closest analogy is upgrading torpedoes in tech - 1900 16" to 1908 16"...does not need any effort.
    The logical extension is as long as the MTB fits in the 20m, spot, you can load them 1:1 

    Changing the Torpedo launcher from T2 to a T3 or a 16" to 21" does need effort
    That would seem to indicate if the numbers of MTBs change, then a refit is needed.

    Did they beat the drum slowly,
    Did they play the fife lowly,
    Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
    Did the band play the last post and chorus,
    Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

    Desertfox

    The Japanese took the "coastal defense base" statement to mean that the ship itself is the base and is probably to be used to guard some coastal location that does not have any available infrastructure.

    Which does beg the question, how do we determine how much warships a port can support?



    Updated design:

    Minas Maru, Japan/Inca Battletender laid down 1913

    Displacement:
       18,253 t light; 19,353 t standard; 20,064 t normal; 20,633 t full load

    Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
       (573.88 ft / 570.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (22.00 / 22.50 ft)
       (174.92 m / 173.74 m) x 30.48 m  x (6.71 / 6.86 m)

    Armament:
          8 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 150 per gun
         Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
         2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
          1 raised mount
         2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
          12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
         Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1913 Model
         12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
          8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
         Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
         8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
          8 raised mounts
          12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 140 per gun
         Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
         12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
          6 raised mounts
          Weight of broadside 8,395 lbs / 3,808 kg

    Armour:
       - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
       Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
       Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
         160.00 ft / 48.77 m Unarmoured ends
         Main Belt covers 73 % of normal length

       - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
          1.00" / 25 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
       Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.00 ft / 24.38 m

       - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
       Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
       2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
       3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

       - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
       For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm

       - Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

    Machinery:
       Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
       Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,926 shp / 11,881 Kw = 18.00 kts
       Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
       Bunker at max displacement = 1,279 tons

    Complement:
       842 - 1,095

    Cost:
       £1.577 million / $6.306 million

    Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
       Armament: 1,489 tons, 7.4 %
          - Guns: 1,489 tons, 7.4 %
       Armour: 5,855 tons, 29.2 %
          - Belts: 2,445 tons, 12.2 %
          - Torpedo bulkhead: 220 tons, 1.1 %
          - Armament: 1,677 tons, 8.4 %
          - Armour Deck: 1,338 tons, 6.7 %
          - Conning Tower: 175 tons, 0.9 %
       Machinery: 624 tons, 3.1 %
       Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,435 tons, 37.1 %
       Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,811 tons, 9.0 %
       Miscellaneous weights: 2,850 tons, 14.2 %
          - Hull below water: 1,870 tons
          - On freeboard deck: 800 tons
          - Above deck: 180 tons

    Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
       Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
         42,955 lbs / 19,484 Kg = 49.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
       Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
       Metacentric height 8.4 ft / 2.6 m
       Roll period: 14.5 seconds
       Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
             - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
       Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

    Hull form characteristics:
       Hull has low quarterdeck ,
         a normal bow and a cruiser stern
       Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.563
       Length to Beam Ratio: 5.70 : 1
       'Natural speed' for length: 23.87 kts
       Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
       Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
       Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
       Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
       Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
          - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
          - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
          - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
          - Quarter deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
          - Average freeboard:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
       Ship tends to be wet forward

    Ship space, strength and comments:
       Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.4 %
          - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.5 %
       Waterplane Area: 40,155 Square feet or 3,730 Square metres
       Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
       Structure weight / hull surface area: 162 lbs/sq ft or 790 Kg/sq metre
       Hull strength (Relative):
          - Cross-sectional: 0.97
          - Longitudinal: 1.26
          - Overall: 1.00
       Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
       Excellent accommodation and workspace room
       Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
       Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

    180t for 1908  FC and LR Wireless
    800t for space/supplies for 10 MTBs
    1870t for Out-of-port Resupply
    "We don't run from the end of the world. We CHARGE!" Schlock

    http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20090102.html

    Kaiser Kirk

    Quote from: Desertfox on June 25, 2020, 02:35:21 PM

    Which does beg the question, how do we determine how much warships a port can support?


    Snip deliberately removed that tracking aspect pre-game.
    Any region with IC can automatically support as many ships as you cram there.

    Regions without IC... not so much.
    Where Port Symbols are you can expect several thousand tons of mercantile coal, fresh water, tinned food, and some dockside facilities.
    Do not expect oil or munitions.

    You can make an arrangement with a PC or NPC to use their port symbols  IC to stockpile stores ahead of time, including oil fuel.
    Basically you lease warehouse space and put a bunch of drums there.
    Did they beat the drum slowly,
    Did they play the fife lowly,
    Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
    Did the band play the last post and chorus,
    Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest