Design competition for the Inca Empire

[maddox]

To blow the whole thing in the open.

The Inca realised that they ain't alone in the world.  The coastal defense fleet and the few long range "Loreseeker" vessels are being viewed as "bare minimum" and "outdated" by some of the nobles and the Lorekeepers.

With the addition of the Green Hell Royal Waterway, a lot of modernisation has to be done in a short time.
The Inca Empire is reaching out to the fellow Empires. (the message tubes appearing all over the world)

The coastline, ranging from deep tropical jungle to empty desert is 2500Nm long, and except some guano/wani rich bird-litter islands and a few river estuaries it's open ocean.

The Inca want to buy ships and technology abroad.

With the distance and the strong Humboldt current ,  sustained decent speed is needed for north-south travel.  The ports are shallow, but the rest is DEEP water.

The current view is a coastal defense fleet. And with the information of the 1912-19XX Sino-Japanese war trickling in, a more educated view is being build.

Torpedo's are the way to "defend affordable".  To get the enemy in torpedo range, the enemy has to be willing in the open waters to come close, or the ships used must be faster.
Torpedo's are also lighter than big guns for the same amount of devastation, but lack "endurance" in a conflict.

In short. For the short range work, defending the ports or easely invadable shorelines. Swarms of fast and cheap torpedo boats.  Juicy big targets -in the form of big gun coastal defence ships- or coastal fortresses to entice the enemy closer. (monitor like Faa Di Bruno slow monstrosities that can't venture in the Humboldt, or Sverge coastal BB's, convince Sapa Inca please)

And a core of fast long ranged torpedo cruisers.  Speed, seakeeping, range (for those loreseeking voyages) Guns big enough to hurt anything smaller, and enough torpedo's to give any BB pause.
Small silhouette to help closing it is a big plus.

Of course, The Inca ain't neglecting the Big rivers into the Amazon basin. (OOC, the "port city" of Iquitos can accept ships up to 9000 tons irl... I think 1000 tons and a draft of 6' max should be the biggest of those brown water navy ships for the Nverse Inca. The role, making sure the watery Royal Road isn't used to invade the Empire.

What country is willing to get the share of gold?

[Kaiser Kirk]

1913 laydown?

I hope to have time to tinker around and see what the Parthians can offer.

[Kaiser Kirk]

In short. For the short range work, defending the ports or easily invadable shorelines. Swarms of fast and cheap torpedo boats.  Juicy big targets -in the form of big gun coastal defence ships- or coastal fortresses to entice the enemy closer. (monitor like Faa Di Bruno slow monstrosities that can't venture in the Humboldt, or Sverge coastal BB's, convince Sapa Inca please)

What country is willing to get the share of gold?

The Parthians, like many nations, field the 1905 MTB-A series.  20m long, 2 torpedoes, 28kts, 300@16kts, 1000@10knts 40t.
That, with it's limitations, seems the best fit for the Incan goal, though the Parthians some nations have come up with a smaller, shorter range MTB.

The Parthians have been examining options for their new territories for a fairly cheap vessel, though admittedly larger. This could be used for patrol work in addition to launching group strikes.
(I expect others will have better designs, just seems to be how it works out :))

Scimitar, Incan Torpedo Boat laid down 1913

Displacement:
   249 t light; 257 t standard; 291 t normal; 319 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (225.15 ft / 221.46 ft) x 21.33 ft x (5.61 / 5.97 ft)
   (68.63 m / 67.50 m) x 6.50 m  x (1.71 / 1.82 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal gun - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1909 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 - 2.36" / 60.0 mm 50.0 cal gun - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1904 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      Weight of broadside 31 lbs / 14 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 6,066 shp / 4,525 Kw = 26.25 kts
   Range 360nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 62 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   34 - 45

Cost:
   £0.034 million / $0.135 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 147 tons, 50.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 82 tons, 28.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 14.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13 tons, 4.5 %
      - Hull above water: 6 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 6 tons
      - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     100 lbs / 45 Kg = 4.5 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 9.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.385 / 0.396
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   10.00 %,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Forward deck:   19.00 %,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Aft deck:   56.00 %,  5.77 ft / 1.76 m,  5.77 ft / 1.76 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.77 ft / 1.76 m,  7.41 ft / 2.26 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.22 ft / 2.51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,720 Square feet or 253 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 87 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Trial Speed 30.49

This is adapted from a design the Parthians are considering for their new Colonies.

Conceptually meant to dash out and conduct a high speed run,
deliver torpedos and then return to base.

Alternately, it could conduct a 12hour patrol run and return to base.

8t : 2T2 Torpedoes 18"
1t : Range finders, Torpedo Direction Center.
4t :  Excess capacity (expected to be used to mount larger torpedoes)

Fuel loading
100% power : 6066shp 26.25knts / trial speed 30.49 / Only in good weather (poor seaboat)

75% power : 4559shp / 24.5knts / average seakeeping

25% power : 1516shp / 18.575 knts / Excellent seakeeping

12.5% power : 758shp / 15.4kts / Excellent seakeeping

The 35tons of fuel gives the following ranges:
26.25knts : 10.4 hours
24 knts : 360nm, 15 hours
18.575 knts (coal boiler & stores only max)  : 8.9hours
15knots (coal only 50% power ) : 21 hours


4 small boilers are fitted.
One is coal fired with 10% oil-spray.  (0.25*0.9=23)
Three are oil fired.
This should allow day-to-day operations to be conducted with local coal sources, while allowing the higher energy density of the oil to be reserved for combat. 

[Desertfox]

I'll definitely have a modernized ~300t TB design coming up soon, but its going to have to wait on the war's conclusion.

In the meantime, would the Incas perhaps be interested in a version of the Sakuras? Perhaps as a TB leader.

Sakura, Japan Destroyer laid down 1912

Displacement:
   710 t light; 742 t standard; 791 t normal; 830 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (303.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 30.00 ft x (7.50 / 7.75 ft)
   (92.35 m / 91.44 m) x 9.14 m  x (2.29 / 2.36 m)

Armament:
      3 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      1 raised mount
      Weight of broadside 189 lbs / 86 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,446 shp / 13,015 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 2,700nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 88 tons

Complement:
   73 - 96

Cost:
   £0.091 million / $0.362 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 4.2 %
      - Guns: 33 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 1.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 405 tons, 51.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 247 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 80 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 2.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 16 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     247 lbs / 112 Kg = 4.0 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.417
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   27.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   28.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.62 ft / 3.85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,574 Square feet or 518 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 130 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 0.56
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

16t - 8 x 18" Torpedoes

[Kaiser Kirk]

In short. For the short range work, defending the ports or easely invadable shorelines. Swarms of fast and cheap torpedo boats.  Juicy big targets -in the form of big gun coastal defence ships- or coastal fortresses to entice the enemy closer. (monitor like Faa Di Bruno slow monstrosities that can't venture in the Humboldt, or Sverge coastal BB's, convince Sapa Inca please)

What country is willing to get the share of gold?

Coast Defense Ships.

For Parthia, that is a broad category.
We are considering how to replace our straits vessels Gatekeeper and Keymaster and we have developed plans for some vessels to hide in the Zambezi delta.

Both require fairly shallow draft, limiting vessel size, so we view these designs as 'Coast Defense'.
Unfortunately the plans we have at this stage call for armor-cruiser size vessels, which we view is likely in excess of the Incan desire.

They are intended to have sufficient armament to challenge anything less than a full dreadnaught, and pose threat of real harm to those as well.
The deep load draft is 7.5m , which allows it to sail into waters that a dreadnaught could not follow. In this case it would hopefully be of use in the shallow ports the Incan paper mentioned.

This is essentially Design IV.

We would of course arrange the boiler firing to the client's desires. That may effect overall SHP, speed and range.

Design IV

Tortoise II, Parthian Coast Defense Ship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   14,800 t light; 15,906 t standard; 16,832 t normal; 17,573 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (456.04 ft / 442.91 ft) x 88.58 ft x (23.72 / 24.60 ft)
   (139.00 m / 135.00 m) x 27.00 m  x (7.23 / 7.50 m)

Armament:
      6 - 14.37" / 365 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1,421.98lbs / 645.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward evenly spread
     1 x 3-gun mount on sides, aft deck centre
      6 - 6.50" / 165 mm 45.0 cal guns - 138.89lbs / 63.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x Single mounts on sides forward
      8 - 6.50" / 165 mm 45.0 cal guns - 138.89lbs / 63.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1899 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 double raised mounts
      14 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 74.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1886 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      3 raised mounts
     4 x Twin mounts on sides forward
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 10,575 lbs / 4,797 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.65" / 245 mm   252.46 ft / 76.95 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   190.42 ft / 58.04 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   252.46 ft / 76.95 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.81" / 46 mm   252.46 ft / 76.95 m   24.31 ft / 7.41 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   6.89" / 175 mm      10.8" / 275 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   5th:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks: 3.94" / 100 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.76" / 70 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.65" / 245 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,229 shp / 17,329 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,860nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,667 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   738 - 960

Cost:
   £1.493 million / $5.974 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,989 tons, 11.8 %
   Armour: 5,717 tons, 34.0 %
      - Belts: 2,105 tons, 12.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 411 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 1,159 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,905 tons, 11.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 136 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 946 tons, 5.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,436 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,032 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 712 tons, 4.2 %
      - Hull below water: 135 tons
      - Hull void weights: 75 tons
      - Hull above water: 80 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 198 tons
      - Above deck: 224 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,025 lbs / 11,805 Kg = 17.5 x 14.4 " / 365 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.633 / 0.637
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Aft deck:   12.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   18.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.58 ft / 4.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,589 Square feet or 2,749 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 816 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Minimum Parameters :
USS South Carolina used for length (AB XY) : 137m
USS Nevada used for beam with TDS and triple 14" : 26m
Depth of Soerabaja and Mexican shelf  : 7.5m DL

Since only A / Y, little shorter acceptable, +1 m to beam for individually sleeved guns.

Secondary guns are arranged in hull steps, so that 2 casements on each side can fire forward, the other two aft, and all on the beam. With the 2 superimposed and 4 corner guns that gives 7 bearing forward, 8 on the beam or 7 aft.


Fuel :
75% Oil
25% Oil sprayed coal (22.5% coal, 2.5%oil)

Range :
24hrs at 20knots : 392t, 480nm
14 days at 10 knots : 445t,  3,360nm
total : 837t + 10% reserve : 921t.

Misc weight:
75t - construction reserve

199t - Fire Control
25t - LR radio

38t - 'Widncatcher' evaporative cooling
160t - 2x 40 MTB or Marine Launches

80t - Marine Platoon

135t - Torpedo Nets



Decks
+5.5 : Weather deck 30mm
+3.0 : Gun deck
+1.5 : Top Armor Belt
+0.5 : Crown Main Deck, Armor deck 70mm, top of TDS
-2.0  : Bottom Main belt, Bottom Protective Deck, 1st Deck
-5.5  : Engineering Deck (3.5m high)

[maddox]

I'll definitely have a modernized ~300t TB design coming up soon, but its going to have to wait on the war's conclusion.

In the meantime, would the Incas perhaps be interested in a version of the Sakuras? Perhaps as a TB leader.

Sakura, Japan Destroyer laid down 1912

Displacement:
   710 t light; 742 t standard; 791 t normal; 830 t full load

IC
Patience is a virtue. But yes, modern 300t torpedo boats, that's on the shopping list. 

OOC
There is a distinct lack of interest in destroyers in the Inca wishlist.

[maddox]

Coast Defense Ships.

For Parthia, that is a broad category.
We are considering how to replace our straits vessels Gatekeeper and Keymaster and we have developed plans for some vessels to hide in the Zambezi delta.

Both require fairly shallow draft, limiting vessel size, so we view these designs as 'Coast Defense'.
Unfortunately the plans we have at this stage call for armor-cruiser size vessels, which we view is likely in excess of the Incan desire.

They are intended to have sufficient armament to challenge anything less than a full dreadnaught, and pose threat of real harm to those as well.
The deep load draft is 7.5m , which allows it to sail into waters that a dreadnaught could not follow. In this case it would hopefully be of use in the shallow ports the Incan paper mentioned.

This is essentially Design IV.

We would of course arrange the boiler firing to the client's desires. That may effect overall SHP, speed and range.

The 10Ktons is rather fixed in the Sapa Inca's mindset.
The Inca wish to use their own gun calibers for the armament.

On the other hand, getting the hands on a 14.37" gun, and a way more modern tripple turret will help to reverse engineer it, or even better, get the Parthians involved in the domestic development.

The 165mm caliber, no issue there, except that the Inca have experience with hull mounted casemates, and wish to avoid them. Even it will diminish the secundary armament.
90mm isn't something in the Inca range, but the 100mm is closest, could be exchanged easely enough.

Other option is to use a uniform secundary, with the 139mm replacing the 165 and 90mm's.

One of the things the Inca find puzzling is the incorperation of seasoldiers and "landing craft" for them on this ship.  Couldn't that weight not be used for own torpedos?

Inca oilfields can provide enough domestic oil to go full oil firing.

All in all, a very interesting idea, that Tortoise.

[Kaiser Kirk]

One of the things the Inca find puzzling is the incorperation of seasoldiers and "landing craft" for them on this ship.  Couldn't that weight not be used for own torpedos?

Inca oilfields can provide enough domestic oil to go full oil firing.

All in all, a very interesting idea, that Tortoise.

In answer to the provisions for Marines, the design was a Parthian warship, the ability to board vessels, or land Marines and conduct raids along the African coast were desirable.
Given the speed and weaponry of the vessel, closing to 4000m to launch a torpedo seemed unlikely to be useful.

Now that we are better informed as to the Incan desires, the Parthians could redesign the ship, but it appears substantially over the desired tonnage.

Examining the design files for which substantial work has been done, we have identified a "Monitor" design with multiple versions as most closely suited to meet the Incan desires

Two different versions have been prepared to "draft" stage, and we are confident the weights and reinforcements would work out.
Both rely on the technical information regarding weights and sizes regarding Incan weapons.

The first vessel is closer to the original monitor concept, and retains the 365L40 guns of our Tiamatclass, but in twins. The second relies on the smaller Incan 305mm, but has better armor and speed.

Parthia is not currently among the world leaders for torpedoes and destroyers, so we fear we can not easily compete in those categories. We will review our river gunboats to see if they may be of use.

365mm version

Mallet, Parthia Coast Defense Ship laid down 1913

Displacement:
   9,991 t light; 10,765 t standard; 11,582 t normal; 12,235 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.26 ft / 393.70 ft) x 85.30 ft x (21.33 / 22.29 ft)
   (122.00 m / 120.00 m) x 26.00 m  x (6.50 / 6.79 m)

Armament:
      4 - 14.37" / 365 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1,421.98lbs / 645.00kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.47" / 139 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,526 lbs / 2,960 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.89" / 175 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   14.83 ft / 4.52 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   177.13 ft / 53.99 m   14.83 ft / 4.52 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   4.66 ft / 1.42 m
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   20.01 ft / 6.10 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.86" / 225 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      6.89" / 175 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.56" / 65 mm      2.56" / 65 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck: 2.95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,524 shp / 9,343 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 4,400nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,469 tons

Complement:
   557 - 725

Cost:
   £1.058 million / $4.232 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,274 tons, 11.0 %
   Armour: 3,807 tons, 32.9 %
      - Belts: 1,645 tons, 14.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 240 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 729 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,150 tons, 9.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 491 tons, 4.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,048 tons, 34.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,591 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 372 tons, 3.2 %
      - Hull below water: 120 tons
      - Hull void weights: 100 tons
      - Above deck: 152 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,109 lbs / 9,121 Kg = 13.6 x 14.4 " / 365 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.566 / 0.572
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  16.93 ft / 5.16 m,  16.93 ft / 5.16 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.93 ft / 5.16 m,  16.93 ft / 5.16 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.92 ft / 2.72 m,  8.92 ft / 2.72 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  8.92 ft / 2.72 m,  8.92 ft / 2.72 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.33 ft / 4.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,792 Square feet or 2,210 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 755 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Adapted from a Parthian monitor design with the correct parameters. Substantial adaptations had to be made, but we believe the design fits the desires expressed.


As the Inca indicated interest in the main battery, a version was retained.
The guns can be licensed and tooling for domestic shell & liner production provided.

The draft on this vessel is also low, allowing use of the shallower Incan harbors.

The twin main guns fore and aft are intended to pose the threat to all opponents.
The monitor did not have casements, but rather single mounts.
These are superimposed over the main battery at the ends,
The amid-ships 'pyramid' with the raised middle mount should allow 5 quick-firing guns fore/aft or on either beams.

The vessel makes many comprimises to fit the armanant in such a hull. Speed was not a particular need for a monitor, and difficult to work in later.

The design foe should not exceed armored cruisers, but there is potential to seriously damage any capital ship afloat.

The class features an armored deck at the 2.72m AWL level.
The aft deck is cut down to this level, while the forward deck is raised 1 level.
This forward section is protected by a 100mm strake of armor.

Main belt covers from the armor deck at 2.72 to -1.8m below water.
The armored deck at 2.72m is 30mm foreward, 50mm aft, and 75mm over the citadel.

The second deck is at 0.28m above the WL, and the TDS raises to that level.
The TDS is set 4m back from the hull and features twinned 19mm armorsheets for maximum resiliance.



Miscellaneous Weight :
120t - Torpedo nets
25t - LR radio
127t - Fire Control

Mallet 305mm

Mallet, Incan Coast Defense Ship 305mm laid down 1913

Displacement:
   9,995 t light; 10,603 t standard; 11,664 t normal; 12,512 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.26 ft / 393.70 ft) x 85.30 ft x (21.33 / 22.57 ft)
   (122.00 m / 120.00 m) x 26.00 m  x (6.50 / 6.88 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.01" / 305 mm 41.0 cal guns - 881.85lbs / 400.00kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.47" / 139 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,365 lbs / 1,980 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.27" / 210 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   14.73 ft / 4.49 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   177.13 ft / 53.99 m   14.73 ft / 4.49 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   20.60 ft / 6.28 m

   - Hull Bulges:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      8.27" / 210 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.56" / 65 mm      2.56" / 65 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 3.74" / 95 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm,  Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,097 shp / 14,247 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 5,780nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,908 tons

Complement:
   560 - 729

Cost:
   £0.893 million / $3.572 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 772 tons, 6.6 %
   Armour: 4,195 tons, 36.0 %
      - Belts: 1,797 tons, 15.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 247 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 695 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,412 tons, 12.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 748 tons, 6.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,914 tons, 33.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,668 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 366 tons, 3.1 %
      - Hull below water: 142 tons
      - Hull void weights: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 22 tons
      - Above deck: 102 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,270 lbs / 11,916 Kg = 30.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 7.3 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.578
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  17.55 ft / 5.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.55 ft / 5.35 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  9.02 ft / 2.75 m,  9.02 ft / 2.75 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.60 ft / 4.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,882 Square feet or 2,219 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 669 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Adapted from a Parthian monitor design with the correct parameters. Substantial adaptations had to be made, but we believe the design fits the desires expressed.


As the Inca indicated interest in the main battery, a version was retained.
The guns can be licensed and tooling for domestic shell & liner production provided.

The draft on this vessel is also low, allowing use of the shallower Incan harbors.

The twin main guns fore and aft are intended to pose the threat to all opponents.
The monitor did not have casements, but rather single mounts.
These are superimposed over the main battery at the ends,
The amid-ships 'pyramid' with the raised middle mount should allow 5 quick-firing guns fore/aft or on either beams.

The vessel makes many comprimises to fit the armanant in such a hull. Speed was not a particular need for a monitor, and difficult to work in later.

The design foe should not exceed armored cruisers, but there is potential to seriously damage any capital ship afloat.

The class features an armored deck at the 2.72m AWL level.
The aft deck is cut down to this level, while the forward deck is raised 1 level.
This forward section is protected by a 100mm strake of armor.

Main belt covers from the armor deck at 2.72 to -1.8m below water.
The armored deck at 2.72m is 30mm foreward, 50mm aft, and 75mm over the citadel.

There are two main armored decks-
5.10m : a 25mm splinter deck , proof against QF HE shell splinters.
2.69m : the thick 70mm, proof against all main battery shell splinters.

Both are above the waterline, giving substantial reserve boyancy.

The second deck is at 0.25m above the WL, and the TDS raises to that level.
The TDS is set 4m back from the hull and features twinned 19mm sheets of homogenous steel for maximum resiliance.

~2.44 decks, 3.44m Engineering, 0.45m dbl bottom

Miscellaneous Weight :
22t : extra pumps
120t - Torpedo nets
22t - "windcatcher" evaporative cooling & fan system
25t - LR radio
77t - Fire Control


Decks ;
+5.10 Weather deck- top upper belt. 25mm deck.
+2.69  Battery Deck/Armor Deck - 70mm. Top Main belt.
+0.25  Main Deck. .  Top of TDS
-1.80  Bottom main belt
-2.19 1st Deck
-5.63 Engineering
-6.03 Bilges/ Double bottom

[Desertfox]

Japanese torpedo boat design. Very fast (33kts trial) and all oil fired (can maintain top speed for longer periods of time). Armament includes a 4 pounder Hotchkiss style rotating cannon and two mortars for starshells (night) or phosphorous shells (day) to cover the approach. Torpedo tubes are 4x18" and fixed, and misc weight includes 5t for smoke generation equipment. That said, Japan believes the bigger Sakura class destroyers are better value for the money, capable of similar speeds and double the torpedo armament.   

Kamikaze II, Japan Torpedo Boat laid down 1913

Displacement:
   436 t light; 452 t standard; 480 t normal; 502 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (252.47 ft / 250.00 ft) x 24.00 ft x (7.00 / 7.21 ft)
   (76.95 m / 76.20 m) x 7.32 m  x (2.13 / 2.20 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal gun - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1913 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline forward
      5 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4.03lbs / 1.83kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1913 Model
     1 x Quintuple mount on centreline aft
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 20.50lbs / 9.30kg shells, 150 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 75 lbs / 34 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,864 shp / 10,343 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 50 tons

Complement:
   50 - 66

Cost:
   £0.059 million / $0.236 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 10 tons, 2.2 %
      - Guns: 10 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 255 tons, 53.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 154 tons, 32.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 44 tons, 9.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 2.9 %
      - Hull above water: 5 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 8 tons
      - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     141 lbs / 64 Kg = 10.5 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.406
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.40 ft / 3.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,693 Square feet or 343 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 42 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 111 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 0.57
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[maddox]

The 365mm armed Mallet seems the best option.   But it's surprising there isn't a 6 gunned 305mm version with the same hull.

But yes, If the Partians wish to lay down such a vessel in 1913 and one in 1914, a suitable trade can be arranged.


On TB's. It seems the Inca 1911 TB just needs some tender loving care, and a revisting of the main gun armament.

Sapa Inca is especialy charmed by the 4 pounder rotator.  (should be simmed a lot heavier than a single 4 pounder tough). TB's deal damage with the torpedo's, the guns are there to boost moral of the crew and to intimidate Merchants, shell troops on the beach. (or green hell demons upriver). If the Japanese engineers want to discus that kind of real MTB...

[Desertfox]

Would the Inca be interested in a Thonburi style CDS(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTMS_Thonburi)? Japan believes that a modern CDS armed with 4x194mm guns can be done for around 2,000t, or 3,000t if the Inca prefer a more cruiser-like functionality (like the Japanese Aganos: https://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,7289.0.html)

Alternative TB design. Japan is most willing to export the rotating cannon, currently they have a 3 barrel version in service (available immediately) and starting work on the 5 barrel version.

Japan Export Torpedo Boat laid down 1913

Displacement:
   263 t light; 275 t standard; 304 t normal; 327 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (192.12 ft / 190.00 ft) x 20.00 ft x (7.00 / 7.34 ft)
   (58.56 m / 57.91 m) x 6.10 m  x (2.13 / 2.24 m)

Armament:
      5 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4.03lbs / 1.83kg shells, 280 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1913 Model
     1 x Quintuple mount on centreline forward
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 30.0 cal guns - 20.50lbs / 9.30kg shells, 150 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 61 lbs / 28 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,271 shp / 5,424 Kw = 26.50 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 51 tons

Complement:
   36 - 47

Cost:
   £0.036 million / $0.146 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 2.6 %
      - Guns: 8 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 156 tons, 51.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 88 tons, 29.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 41 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 3.3 %
      - Hull above water: 1 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 8 tons
      - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     88 lbs / 40 Kg = 0.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.89

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.410
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.04 ft / 2.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,339 Square feet or 217 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 50 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 94 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.67
      - Overall: 0.59
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Desertfox]

Thonburi/Agano-style, Japan Coast Defense Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   2,968 t light; 3,147 t standard; 3,473 t normal; 3,734 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (340.00 ft / 340.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (13.00 / 13.77 ft)
   (103.63 m / 103.63 m) x 15.24 m  x (3.96 / 4.20 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.64" / 194 mm 45.0 cal guns - 224.68lbs / 101.91kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 5.47" / 139 mm 45.0 cal guns - 82.64lbs / 37.49kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,306 lbs / 592 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.50" / 64 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.50" / 64 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,026 shp / 6,734 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 587 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   226 - 294

Cost:
   £0.286 million / $1.144 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 264 tons, 7.6 %
      - Guns: 264 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 733 tons, 21.1 %
      - Belts: 195 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armament: 118 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 408 tons, 11.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 385 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,179 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 505 tons, 14.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 406 tons, 11.7 %
      - Hull below water: 300 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 79 tons
      - Above deck: 27 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,588 lbs / 2,534 Kg = 25.1 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.558
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,864 Square feet or 1,102 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 395 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

27t - FC
25t - LR Wireless
16t - 8 x 18" TT
38t - 2 x Extra boats
300t - Out-of-port Resupply

[Jefgte]

Proposed Light 12800t VdT from Byzantine Empire
2 ships could be laid down in Byzantium Shipyards early 1913

AC7, Byzantine Empire Light BC laid down 1913

Displacement:
   12 780 t light; 13 455 t standard; 14 507 t normal; 15 349 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (572,00 ft / 572,00 ft) x 74,00 ft x (22,01 / 23,01 ft)
   (174,35 m / 174,35 m) x 22,56 m  x (6,71 / 7,01 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 504,26lbs / 228,73kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 504,26lbs / 228,73kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships alterned (VdT)
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1913 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,27lbs / 14,64kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 93,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5 164 lbs / 2 342 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,07" / 230 mm   364,00 ft / 110,95 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   1,98" / 50 mm   208,00 ft / 63,40 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
   Upper:   3,55" / 90 mm   364,00 ft / 110,95 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,50" / 38 mm   364,00 ft / 110,95 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 62,00 ft / 18,90 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   5,92" / 150 mm      9,07" / 230 mm
   2nd:   11,8" / 300 mm   5,92" / 150 mm      9,07" / 230 mm
   3rd:   1,98" / 50 mm   1,50" / 38 mm      1,50" / 38 mm
   4th:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,55" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1,98" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,98" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9,07" / 230 mm, Aft 5,90" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36 900 shp / 27 528 Kw = 24,09 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 894 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   660 - 859

Cost:
   £1,199 million / $4,794 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 091 tons, 7,5 %
      - Guns: 1 091 tons, 7,5 %
   Armour: 5 212 tons, 35,9 %
      - Belts: 2 276 tons, 15,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 404 tons, 2,8 %
      - Armament: 1 014 tons, 7,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 326 tons, 9,1 %
      - Conning Towers: 192 tons, 1,3 %
   Machinery: 1 575 tons, 10,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 508 tons, 31,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 727 tons, 11,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 395 tons, 2,7 %
      - Hull below water: 88 tons
      - Hull above water: 64 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
      - Above deck: 143 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23 414 lbs / 10 620 Kg = 46,8 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 4,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,545 / 0,552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,92 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00 %,  22,00 ft / 6,71 m,  18,00 ft / 5,49 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00 %,  18,00 ft / 5,49 m,  16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Aft deck:   30,00 %,  16,00 ft / 4,88 m,  16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Quarter deck:   20,00 %,  16,00 ft / 4,88 m,  16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:      17,02 ft / 5,19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 29 402 Square feet or 2 732 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,27
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight 395t:
118t fire control
64t for extra pump installation
64t for climatization
25t for long range wireless
24t for 4TTx450+1 reloads
100t reserved

[eltf177]

Desertfox, what TT's does the Japanese export TB carry?

[Desertfox]

All the Japanese designs have 18" torpedoes