Lessons Learned : The Ryukyu Kingdom disagreement.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I am getting close to wrapping up the successive lines of battle and the accompanying narrative.
Basically it winds up being 12 fights as the two groups meet the separate lines.

That's like 11 to many.
Remind me never ever to have multiple forces like this.
A simple battleline 'slugfest' would be fine.

For these build an excel table to track how far east/west things are each game turn and determine when the lines come within 6000m of each other.

I made a substantial change to the Fire Control standard.
First, I used a minimum 2% chance from 'effective fighting range' to 1.5x that range, and then I used 1% out to 2x that range. With the volume of fire there were some hits at those odds.
With the need to penetrate the Japanese lines,  I decided that once the range was so low that shells would hit within a second, the -12% penalty for 'local spot' would go away, as it would now be "point slightly ahead and shoot".  This tripled the Japanese chances for the "knife fight" portions, and I think gave a more reasonable view of the hazards of running an enemy gun line.

In the End, the number of TBs reaching the targets was low, so they could not saturate the defenses. 60 from one direction probably would have been better. Plus the tiny MTBs can be taken out relatively easily, the Weihei TBs absorb more hits, but they too are small.  Only the Norse B class of the Busan squadron can take 5 x 75mm hits.

[Kaiser Kirk]

So for the last bit,

I felt the torpedo hit rates were to high. Compared to WWII, they certainly are.
It's hard to tell, with the <4000m launch ranges, the torpedo run times are so quick, so perhaps it should be high.

I had considered to simply halve the torpedo hit rate and raise the dud rate to 30%.

For this time I had 42 launches, at ships en echelon, so different ranges..
So I used it as a test, set up an excel sheet to calculate the different ranges and To Hit numbers, run times vs turn for how far they manage to turn, and then a *1/3 and a *1/2 row.

The *1/2 gave me 28% and 18% hits, the *1/3 gave 14%.
I went with 14%.
Still added hit location, the duds, etc.
All Torpedoes that go off and "penetrate" (overmatch TDS) do crits.

I may keep it 1/3 or drop it to 1/4 or 1/5.  14 % is still likely high.  Ships in this era don't even have Torpedo Direction Centers, everything is hand estimated. I don't know quite how long that took or how effective it was.

Fire control, or lack of it, does continue to be an issue. It dramatically reduces the range of the ships. The battlelines were very effective because they could hit once they could see the TBs.

The other aspect of all this is the Chinese Plan.
Again, the Chinese could plan for the Japanese to try again (since they ignored the 2nd peace offer), they had the units ordered to attack in range, they could try to simply overwhelm what the Japanese sent.
So... The Chinese plan was for a whole bunch of torpedo craft to arrive at the anchorage at 4:00am.
But, they were coming from different places, and navigation in 1912 may not be up to that.
So I made a little bell curve around 4am, and randomized when they actually arrived based on how long they were traveling from the last good reference point.

The result was all 3 arrived at slightly different times, with the last group being quite late and is just getting there after the other two are done.

[Desertfox]

So I've sunk a combined 64 DD/TB/MTBs and somehow the Chinese still have 180 of those bloody things...

[Kaiser Kirk]

So I've sunk a combined 64 DD/TB/MTBs and somehow the Chinese still have 180 of those bloody things...

The Weihei squadron totaled 3210 tons. The Busan squadron is slightly 'heavier' at a bit under 3920tons.  Both are "cheap". ..but don't take damage well.
In 1905, Torpedo boats were used aggressively for night attacks against a stationary fleet.
I figured the Chinese would be prepared to fight the last war better. Even if they did not use them for fleet attacks, they would threaten any supply chains/ landings near them.

The MTBs are listed at a range of 1000nm at 10 knots, so figure 400nm "out and back" with a little combat time.  That's a big circle.
Between Weihei, Busan, and Kaohsiung there are 3 TB bases in range, and you established early on that  there's TBs operating out of Naha- though you don't know where they started.
Then all they need is to know is basically where to find you and they can plan an attack.

I have not been able to find a historic parallel for the MTB-As.  They are basically a 4x heavier Coastal Motor Boat.  Given the MTB-B drops to half the size but much the same capability, I'm thinking the older versions are a more conventional ship design, with large amounts of fuel stores.  I did make a SS3 hull 20m long, and 40 tons, and I found out the cruise range of 1000@10knt takes the same fuel tonnage as the 300@16knts listed.

On the torpedoes I will note that the 14% hits include the duds as "hits", so the success rate is slightly lower.

After I posted I realized I don't quite get how twilight visibility really works. I'm presuming that the folks on the mountain can see further in the same light...and I'm a little dubious.
But I gave a 10% shot to take the mountain that early, and Foxy nailed it, and I wanted to give him some warning of the next wave.  So presumable there's sea mist down at the ocean level, ...or some similar somewhat plausible armament.

Foxy gave me orders for the next wave, and his observer on the mountain can help make sure his units are best aligned.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Notes : So that was the idea of the Chinese plan. Concentrate 113(?) torpedo attack craft in one place for a predawn strike, launch up to 300+ torpedoes, overwhelm the defenses, shatter the enemy destroyer force with fleet destroyers, sink or cripple major units.


This wasn't apparent in the MTB fight as the hits were overwhelming on the Chinese and I didn't track the handful of hits on the Umikazes. In the first two battles, I was treating all shells as the same "weight" compared to the Springsharps, while Seekrieg weights penetration and damage by type.
For Seekrieg, they have a damage point system strictly related to tonnage, and common do 4x.  We have our SS3 sims, I want to make the damage absorption stat mean something. 
So for this series, I not only decreased torpedo effectiveness, but I am making "common" shells do 2x dam if they penetrate the non-existent armor- making the TB attackers easier to sink..  This helped a fair bit, including with the larger Pyrites which could be killed with 1x 6" shell...which matches the historical expectation. However the same consideration meant the Umikazes suffered heavily. 

I did stop running the CritDam chart for every hit on a destroyer though...to much time. It simply wasn't necessary on the cruisers.
Likewise the various 1% long distance shots from here or there. If there would be enough guns to reasonably have a chance, I'd roll it. But if it's a couple of foreward guns lobbing shells in the dark...nope.

[Desertfox]

113 torpedo boats is more than what I started with in total... I'm pretty sure I've sunk more that what I started with.

[Kaiser Kirk]

113 torpedo boats is more than what I started with in total... I'm pretty sure I've sunk more that what I started with.

You really have depleted the Chinese stock.  While you had TB squadrons, they had fewer TBs, and alot of MTBs.
The defense plan worked very well at first, but the sudden need to shift fronts was too much strain.

[The Rock Doctor]

A list of total losses by each side would be interesting once available.  I've found it a bit difficult to follow overall.

[Kaiser Kirk]

A list of total losses by each side would be interesting once available.  I've found it a bit difficult to follow overall.

Heck I've found it hard to follow...
Eventually.

[Jefgte]

 I agree with Rocky

A list of the warships before the battle is better.
Date of actions necessary too.
This is a torpedoes war, big guns are missing...

However very interesting and actions full of realism  ;)

[Desertfox]

You really have depleted the Chinese stock.  While you had TB squadrons, they had fewer TBs, and alot of MTBs.
The defense plan worked very well at first, but the sudden need to shift fronts was too much strain.

Eh... I got no ACs or TBs left...

I need to fire my scouting forces, they somehow missed an entire fleet.

[Kaiser Kirk]

You really have depleted the Chinese stock.  While you had TB squadrons, they had fewer TBs, and alot of MTBs.
The defense plan worked very well at first, but the sudden need to shift fronts was too much strain.

Eh... I got no ACs or TBs left...

I need to fire my scouting forces, they somehow missed an entire fleet.

Your focus was all on Northern China/Korea, from the order sheet, you did not allocate resources to scouting/blockading the Ryukyus.

while the Chinese kept thinking your main effort would come against the Ryukyus.  So they combined in Taiwan and hid behind guns, mines and torpedo nets.  Thats why your Shanghai scouting encountered Chinese scouts south of Shanghai.
For this expedition, they first came up the Ryukyus, with the Naha Cruiser screen and MTBs still scouting, then - having verified that Cheju-Do was not a feint, they steamed over, used the islands of Me-Shima as well as the radio signals from message traffic Cheju-do-Busan-Shanghai as a navigation point, and then split with the destroyers going ahead.  The scout cruisers and MTBs were left to cover the Ryukyus.

[The Rock Doctor]

Pull the plug, Fox.  You're not equipped to win this.

[snip]

Pull the plug, Fox.  You're not equipped to win this.

Agreed. Its time for a diplomatic solution here.

[Desertfox]

Yeah... my fleet was not designed to fight this kind of war at all. Would have been nice to know China was going to have 300 TBs when I was designing it.

I could win, but it would require spamming tons of MTBs and would be a long grueling war of attrition that would be fun for no one. And spamming MTBs is no fun when there's battleships to be built.