The Ryukyu Kingdom disagreement.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I have noticed going back to N-Verse 1.0 torpedo attacks tend to be a bit more effective than OTL. I wonder if that has been just luck or wargaming rules are biased towards torpedoes.

Here, you really should have hit twice.
And Seekrieg has a near-blanket 20% dud rate, probably should be 30. I was making it 40 for net contacts - but based off the Svastopol, I can't see how a 100 got hung up unless the yielding nets just dont' set them off.

The big factor was really the very short range. The Seekrieg formula doesn't make a real allowance for how LONG the torpedo takes, just how Far. That's a shame.
If I had the free time I'd reverse engineer it. There's a paper on Navweaps somewhere about the real hit rates of long lances, and there's also the effectiveness at Jutland.
Overall, right now, they are far over achieving.
Give a couple weeks and I may have time to adjust to a better rate.

[maddox]

Commentary:
I was hoping to get the NPCs set up for more interaction this turn.
It really doesn't look like that will happen.

Yma is barely a few days away from Lima. Far away from the conflict zone.
And without any fast means of communication with the world atm, how would anybody in the Inca Empire know about this Sino-Japanese war?

[Kaiser Kirk]

Yma is barely a few days away from Lima. Far away from the conflict zone.
And without any fast means of communication with the world atm, how would anybody in the Inca Empire know about this Sino-Japanese war?

Transmission of the news of war within Japan and China will be rapid.
Transmission down the island chain to Indonesia will be by tramp freighter at an average speed of 4kts, or dedicated military communications.
For the public, or diplomats, I expect longer ranged oceanic merchants or liners would be the primary message carriers.

For the Inca, it would be my expectation that within 1 week a merchant would leave the theater heading for the South Pacific or Hawaii. It would take about a month to get there.
With the low flow of traffic, it may take another month before a merchant departs there for South America, and a month's steaming to get there.
So Lima may not know until the beginning of September, but if Yma conducts port calls at any of the traditional rest locations - Hawaii or Samoa, she would hear it from the Parthians there starting in August.

[snip]

What sort of delay would Europe be looking at? I imagine that once the news hits Parthia transmission will be much faster due to the telegraph.

[Kaiser Kirk]

What sort of delay would Europe be looking at? I imagine that once the news hits Parthia transmission will be much faster due to the telegraph.

Good Question.
Answer : July 22nd.

Explanation.
The Player Nations and T1 NPC have adequate communications to allow news of war at one of the nation, to reach the other end later that day.

With the volume of trade likely coming out of SE Asia, that would set the clock ticking. The news would spread after making port in Malacca.  The Parthians would find this sufficiently important as to dispatch a Bengali Squadron Cruiser for Tis.
So- 2 days to get well known. July 5th. Freighter departing Saigon for Malacca, arrived July 10th.  News to Aceh, July 12th.  Parthian cruiser to Tis at 15knots, depart July 13th, arrive July 21st. News to Diplomats in Ispharan on July 22nd.

Important Note: Realized this morning at work :
When contact was made at 1800hrs on July 1, the Chinese and Japanese expeditionary forces for expansion were 144nm out to sea. Well within LR radio range.
By time the ultimatum expired at 1917 on July 2nd, they could be 344nm and out of range.... unless they dispatch a vessel to stay within communication range and find out what the results are.

Chinese Panay force : South China Sea
Japanese Makassar & Soerabaja Force : On course 344nm from Kagoshima place them 90nm East of and they would have been spotted if they stay the course.
So the colonial expansion map may change.

[Desertfox]

Ground based radio stations should be able to reach beyond 250nm without a problem. So ships at sea with radio receivers should be able to receive news without problem, they just wouldn't be able to communicate back. By the same measure depending on who has radio stations news could travel relatively fast.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Ground based radio stations should be able to reach beyond 250nm without a problem. So ships at sea with radio receivers should be able to receive news without problem, they just wouldn't be able to communicate back. By the same measure depending on who has radio stations news could travel relatively fast.

You are correct.
Doing a very quick glance at the available information, I'm going to say :
A) we're still in the Spark-gap era,
B) that the 1902 SS Pennsylvania experiment of 700miles represents the best case for reliable transmission. So up to 3.5 days out from a major city, ships can likely receive information barring interference.
C) And that the wiki passage "Beginning about 1910, industrial countries built global networks of these stations to exchange commercial and diplomatic telegram traffic with other countries and communicate with their overseas colonies." means our countries have not built global networks..because in 1910 nobody had any colonies.

[Kaiser Kirk]

July 3rd.
Scouting Force Tsushima
Arrives on Station at 447am, 1 minute early. 

Dawn peeks over the horizon.

The dull black mass of the Korean shore covers the Eastern skyline. The partially cloudy sky lights as the sun comes up. The waters have a little chop, visibility is good. 

The Tsushima strait is 50nm to the Northeast, the Korean islands over 40nm to the North. The scout force splits into a screen of scout cruisers backed by pairs of armored cruiser and fan out heading NNE at 10 knots.

Jeju Taskforce
At Dawn, The Admiral wants the taskforce to head down the Jeju strait.  As the predawn light grows, the fleet is rearranged to accomplish this and starts to move off it's station of the North Tip of the island of Cheju-Do. Portions of the fleet are split off and start to head East and South.

Jeju Fleet battle order:
2nd Scouting and 4th Cruiser providing scouting and screening

4th Heavy Cruiser
3rd Battleship
2nd Torpedo
3rd Torpedo

The commando ships will land troops on the eastside fishing village.
A minelayer will mine the port of Jeju.

The transports will sail for Kagoshima

Busan Torpedo Boat Squadron
shortly after 0200hrs
Radio broadcast from Chinese AC under attack.
Received in a sheltered bay off Yeosu, the alert clangs.  The time is later than expected. They must hurry. Thanking the sailors on the tender for the hot tea and little cakes, the Commodore returns to the lead torpedo boat and it casts off.

On the torpedo boats, boilers have been kept stoked, it's a matter of turning on the steam, bringing the cylinders up to speed slow enough the propeller does not cavitate. Not as touchy as spinning up a turbine.  Hooded lanterns bracket the strait they need to thread.

0215   Set out, ramp up to 75% power until past a known point, recalibrate speed, drop to 70%, 23 knots. Based on the last reports from Cheju-Do, the Japanese fleet should be found North off the Northern Tip.  It's a shade under 60nm,  Arrival 4:51 – 3 minutes after Dawn.

415, 430 am, Cheju-Do spotters on northern tip confirm presence Japanese fleet, no new vessels. Describe the grid references and changes to fleet formation.  Received on Destroyers, attack proceeds.

445am : Cheju-Do spotter updates grid location.  Destroyers can see Japanese fleet backlit by the Dawn's light, adjust course as needed.

451am : First gun fire, Commodore of Busan Torpedo squadron announces calmly "We are attacking" on the radio.

500, 515am Cheju-Do spotters update report.



The Situation
Arriving, the Chinese receive not only radio updates so they can choose the intercept, but find the Japanese fleet backlit by the rising sun. The 1895 destroyers, which were given radios in refit, act as the lead ships of a coordinated strike.  As Dawn approached, the Japanese Admiral has started a reconnaisance in force, splitting off his amphibious forces, which are shielded by the fleet. The scout cruisers have started moving ahead but are only a couple thousand yards ahead in a screen. The Battleships and Armored Cruisers are in the middle, and the various divisions of torpedo boats hold the rear, where they can quickly respond to the expected approach of the Chinese Northern Fleet, which the Japanese believe may be 160nm North in Busan, and may sortie.

The actual location of the Northern Fleet, or even if it's at Busan or in it's normal base, and where the original Chinese ships went, all uknown.

The Japanese scout force is between Cheju-do and Tsushima island, working north to ensure the Northern Fleet can not slip past.  The Japanese Main Fleet, much like the Busan Torpedo Boats, moved forward on the first day, and is concealed behind Uku-shima island, waiting in distant ambush.

The alert watchman on one of the lead scout cruisers, scanning the dark island-dotted shoreline of Korea happened to  look back, to see a line of bow waves heading for the fleet. Yelling the alert, he frantically rings the bell. Then running to the nearby confused gun crew he points, and they fire. The 75mm shot is wide, but the flat crack of the gun, and the plume of spray catch the attention of the fleet.

The torpedo boats have only been potentially visible to the fleet for a couple minutes before then, but they have long been able to see the fleet, backlit by the brightening skies. Their vessels are at full speed  in six small 'V's led by the 1895 torpedo boats. They are at full speed, and passing 8000m when the 75mm shell raises it's warning geyser of water.

For the scout and protected cruisers in the van, a couple thousand meters in front of the remaining ships, seeing the distant small craft is difficult, but they fire as fast as they can.  The cruisers start to bring up speed, and start slow turns, no wanting to disrupt the aim of their gunners.

For the two flotillas of torpedo craft trailing the fleet, the presence of their Chinese counterparts is a shock. The range is shorter, but many are screened by their own fellow craft.  Had this been a broadside fight at a constant range, they may have had a chance to score a hit, but despite the shower of shells they put out, any contact would essentially be pure luck. They turn towards the Chinese and begin accelerating, but only reach 14knts by time the Chinese have launched and come about.

The center of the Jebu fleet is the Battleships and Armored Cruisers, and they have been refitted with fire control, and while their casement guns are ancient, they are studded with new 75mm QF. Searchlights stab out, augmenting the early light, rangefinders start calling out range marks and the range clocks at the batteries reflecting the number. The guns fire at the elevation for that range, reload and change elevation for the next shot There is no time for central command, but the local rangefinders help greatly. 

As the torpedo boats reach 7000m, the forest of splashes starts to converge. Passing 6000m the difference between the capital ship fire and that of the lesser craft is obvious, as a wall of splashes dances around the advancing line of torpedo craft. The craft press on, with a MTB-A disintegrating around 5000m.  At 4500m a Chinese torpedo boat hits the blind luck shot, and another MTB-A goes up, at 4000, the near misses of the Capital Ships suddenly turn to hits, with #2, and #8 of the destroyers, leading their V's taking 75mm hits. The little craft stagger, but continue on.

The torpedo boats slew broadside to release their torpedoes, the presentation of broadsides at this short a range allows #7 to be hit, and another MTB-A blows up.   The rest release their payloads, and 40 torpedoes race through the water at 35knts.  As the craft continue their turn, a second 75mm hit impacts the #2 Destroyer, which catches fire and continues turning before exploding. Three more MTB-As are turned into shattered wrecks by 75mm fire.  The torpedo men pour fuel oil on their hot exaust stacks, generating an oily smokes, and start gentle zig-zags as they race away at full speed, heading WSW for the islands along the coast.

The capital ships maintain fire for another minute, and then, as the Chinese pour fuel oil on hot engine parts and foul black smoke cloaks them, the ships follow the command of the lead ship, start their turns to try to comb the wakes of the torpedoes. The ships have turned 30 degrees,  by time the torpedoes arrive.
The angling helps, but not enough. Of the 6 ships targeted with the 40 torpedoes, 15 still hit, and 12 detonate. Sprays of water shoot skyward alongside each ship.

Fuji : Two hits, bow and abreast Turret A. Torpedo strikes hull at angle aft of "X" but does not detonate.  Forward magazine areas flooding, down by bow. Flash from torpedo explosion has set fires.  Captain reports reduced speed, flooding and fires probably controllable within half hour.

Yashima : Two hits amidships, flooding in engine rooms, boiler explosion and severe list. Damage prognosis unknown. Captain promises his crew will fight to the end to save the ship.

Asama I :  Hit forward of "A", hit at "X".  Ship shudders and begins to turn, Thick column of smoke pours from X turret, turret roof is seen to shoot skyward, ship disintegrates.

Asama II : Hit at bow, amidships.  Captain reports reduced speed, flooding. Starboard secondary battery magazine flooded. 15 degree list to starboard. Captain reports he expects flooding to be controllable.

Asama III: Hit amidships, stern. Ship continues on prior course, not following leading ship. Signal flags are run up for "Engine Failure" and "Loss of Control". The ship does not respond to radio hails. Ship taking on severe list and stern sinking.

Asama IV : Four torpedoes hit forward of "A", two detonate, and two glance off.  bow severely damaged, progressive flooding at bow held by forward armor bulkhead, but decks awash. Captain expresses confidence he can reach port by going astern.

Note : Fuji are can take 2.1 torpedo hits, Asama 1.4, Each was attacked by 6-8 torpedoes, they were hit by 2-4, but all ships were hit twice with live rounds. I use hit location to judge severity, and will factor in on if they can be saved.

What are the Admiral's orders for his fleet ?
Pursuit? Rescue?

[Kaiser Kirk]

0500 hours

[Kaiser Kirk]

0530 Hours

"A"

To the south, Chinese Force "A' is showing the tops of one set of military masts.


"B"

Torpedo 2

After requesting receiving permission, Torpedo 2 has pursued the Busan Torpedo Boat Squadron.
About 0510 One of the damaged Busan destroyers vents a huge gout of smoke as it's engine fails
Shortly thereafter an MTB falls out.

It takes Torpedo 2 nearly 20 minutes to get up to full speed, at which point they are roughly 9km behind but very slowly overtaking.
The other wounded destroyer has falling behind, and does not seem able to maintain max speed.

By 0530, the best estimate of range is roughly 8km.

"C"

To the North, the flanking scout cruiser fails to spot the smoke at the very very edge of possible range backdropped by the Korean islands.

...well that would be likely, and the Chinese would like it, but Fox has scouts in more or less the right place.
Even if the mapping placed them slightly out of range that benefit of the doubt should go to the player.
At 500 the distance was 43nm, I deemed that out of range.

At 530, with a maximum sighting range of 28.4nm, the Japanese scout cruiser spots what they think is coal smoke at 27.57nm.
They report that as "C".


Distances :

"C" to Jeju Fleet : 43nm
IJN Fleet to Jeju Fleet : 101nm
"C" to IJN Fleet ; 88nm

[Kaiser Kirk]

600am July 3rd.

Scout Group Yodo II had turned North minutes earlier, and already masts are coming into view. From the numbers of ships, and with what SC Mogami is reporting, it is the Chinese Northern fleet, guided to it's target by the observers on Cheju-do.

Positions relative to Jeju Fleet

Japanese

Jeju Fleet
Task Force Yashima : safely grounded in shallow bay at North tip of Cheju-Do. A small island to the North shields them.
BB-Yashima, AC-Asama IV,  1st Minelaying division is mining the strait between Cheju-Do and the island.  These vessels are sheltered from wave battering, and can be salvaged.

Main Task Force Fuji :  7.5nm NE of Cheju-do, speed increased from 6 to 10knts
 
4th Cruiser Division leads 2,000m ahead. 10knots
AC- Asama I leads BB, 10knts.
Fuji-BB. Captain maximum 12-14, damaged bow low in water, pumps at max, bulkheads endangered if faster.

Scout Group Yodo I:
2x SC Yodo, split off 545 to investigate "A", speed 15 knots, 4000m South of Fuji.

Scout Group Yodo II :
2x  SC Yodo, split off at 550 to investigate "C", speed 15knots , 2400m North of Fuji.

3rd  Torpedo Boat Division 
In 4 x 6 TB divisions, following Fuji, distance 500m West.

2nd Torpedo Boat Division
After running down 2 damaged destroyers and an MTB, has been recalled at 530. After 45minutes at max power, they are returning at 10knts and are 17000m west of Fuju, just offshore of Cheju-do.

Cheju-Do invasion fleet : 16 freighters are heading for Uku-shima at 8knots, and are 5nm East of Fuji.

Saegowi village invasion force : 18,000m south of Fuji. Contact "A" of 1-2 vessels with Military masts ~40,000m SSW.

Tsushima Scout
PC Kisagi& PC Chitose class : Speed 20knots, 81,000m NNE of Fuji, ~40,000m from Northern Fleet., 81000m NNE of Fuji (45nm)

3rd Heavy Cruiser Division & 3rd Cruiser Division : 91,000m  NE of Fuji (50nm) regrouping

Imperial Japanese Fleet
2 Mogami class recently increased speed to 25knots, and are only 87nm away.

remainder 1st Scouting, 1st and 2nd Heavy Cruisers and half of 1st Destroyer of the Japanese fleet accelerated at 0530 to 15knots, and are only 88.5nm away.

1st & 2nd Battleship, half of 1st destroyer and all of 1st torpedo boat are at 10knots and accelerating only slightly further at 91nm West of Fuji.

Chinese Force "A"
1-2 military ships, 25nm SSW of Fuji.

Chinese Force "B"
Contact Lost, last seen fleeing NW

Chinse Force "C" - presumed Northern Fleet.
47,000m (23nm) NNE of Fuji.

[Kaiser Kirk]

This is ...close to the positions described about.
They may be off a little bit one way or another.

Desertfox needs this to get a better idea of what is occurring at 0600

[Desertfox]

Am I the only one feeling shades of Leyte Gulf? Jeju Fleet = Taffy 3, Chinese Fleet = Kurita's Force, Japanese Main Fleet = Oldendorf's battleships

[Kaiser Kirk]

Am I the only one feeling shades of Leyte Gulf? Jeju Fleet = Taffy 3, Chinese Fleet = Kurita's Force, Japanese Main Fleet = Oldendorf's battleships

I think Oldendorf's forces would need to be between the Chinese and the Jeju landing force on the freighters.

[Kaiser Kirk]

0745 July 3, 1912

The Japanese now having spotted the longed for Northern fleet, turn to use the Jeju fleet for it's intended role as bait.

The Jeju fleet turns and heads SSE at maximum  speed.  An attempt to reach 12 knots proves the damaged forward bulkhead of Fuji will not take that for long, so they push on at 11knots.
A pair of scout cruisers are detached to join Torpedo 2, while the scattered freighter forces collapse on the safety of the fleet.

To the South, the Chinese scout cruisers (A) keep their distance from the leading edge of the Japanese fleet.

Torpedo 2, now led by the radio-equipped scout cruisers waits for, and then takes position west of the Northern fleet, finding the Chinese are making 18knots.

Tsushima Task Force steams Southwest and recombined, making at it's best sustained speed of 19.5knots.

Far to the east, a pair of Mogami class charge forward at 25knots.
Not far behind is 1st scouting, 1st and 2nd Heavy Cruisers, and half of first destroyer at 22.25 knots.

Lagging behind those, but now visible to the Chinese spotters, is the Japanese mainfleet at 12knots.

The Chinese spotters can now see all 10 Japanese battleships, all 4 heavy armored cruisers, all 10 armored cruisers, 6 of 12 known protected cruisers and 8 of 12 known scout cruisers. Plus a large number of destroyers and torpedo boats.

Facing them are 3 battleships, 1 armored cruisers, 2 protected cruisers, 2 scout cruisers and 3 destroyer squadrons. The Chinese are aware they are outgunned.