Iberia 1910+

[Kaiser Kirk]

The Hydraulic drives are an interesting choice. I wonder how much additional height you can add to the belt with the 137t they take up, 2.48m is not a lot of coverage and I think the design would be better served with a more extensive belt than 350nm more range.

I look at the 4.75m freeboard for most of the vessel.
The armor becomes
4.75
       Upper Belt : 35mm
2.31
       Main belt : 60mm backed by 50mm slope of protective deck, effective armor = 60 + ((50x1.5*)/2**) = 98mm
-0.17


*I presume the slope of the protective deck to be 45deg, so it's effectively 50% thicker
** But Nathan Okun- I think- has shown how 2 plates will have the effective resistance of 1+ 0.5 x the thickness.  Now perhaps here it is the thinner 60mm which should be halved, but
thats one step to many.

Anyhow, my main concern here is that the armor protection barely extends below the waterline.
For a vessel running at 27knots, there is a considerable wave and troughs while moving, so there would be unarmored hull exposed to some shells,
plus
...diving depth. Shells can dive and strike to about 5x their size in depth. So 0.l7m would counter ...oh up to about 85mm...

[Jefgte]

Added a little speed

Fontes Iberis, Iberian Empire Screen Cruiser laid down 1913

27kts is enough to screen & escort 21kts battleships but 105mm are perhaps short to "Repulse" futur DDs  with long range torpedoes.

[snip]

I think a massed 105 battery is still OK for a 1913 ship laied down a year before we get the combat experience which shows the limits of this style of armament

[Darman]

I think a massed 105 battery is still OK for a 1913 ship laied down a year before we get the combat experience which shows the limits of this style of armament

I had designed it before the battles took place and I know the armament is on the light side, but I figured I would keep it since its supposed to be laid down before the Azteco-Romani Kerfluffle

[TacCovert4]

I think a massed 105 battery is still OK for a 1913 ship laied down a year before we get the combat experience which shows the limits of this style of armament

105s are still really sufficient for dealing with anything under 1000t.  I mean it's not realistic to presume 1 hit kills on something the size of a Clemson, 2 hits to cripple is definitely within acceptable parameters.  Hell, the 1350t Samuel B Roberts took better than a single 140-150mm hit and kept on fighting until it basically got deleted by a trio of 14in shells.

For engagements at 8000yds against targets from MTBs on up to 750t DDs and I'd opine even 1000t DDs, a 105mm gun is perfectly adequate and makes a nice halfway house between the MTB-killing 75mm class and the 140+ class more suited to killing DDs and CLs.

[Jefgte]

A more powerful ships was build with the 140t torpedo boat class. Abble of engaging enemy torpedo boats at great distances,
3 x 120/45 guns were installed on 500t hulls. The speed of 21 kts was considered sufficient to protect the 18 kts battle line.

TGB500, Byzantine Empire TGB-500t laid down 1892

TGB1 to TGB24

Displacement:
   500 t light; 525 t standard; 578 t normal; 621 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246,00 ft / 246,00 ft) x 28,40 ft x (6,83 / 7,17 ft)
   (74,98 m / 74,98 m) x 8,66 m  x (2,08 / 2,19 m)

Armament:
      3 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread

Annual Naval Exercises in the Black Sea with the Battle Fleet showed that the 500t TGBs were exellent to protect the Battleships against enemy Torpedoes attacks.
As a result, the Admiralty built in 1897-98-99 another more powerful serie.

TGB500, Byzantine Empire TGB-500t laid down 1897

1897 : TGB25 to TGB32
1898 : TGB33 to TGB40
1899 : TGB41 to TGB48

Displacement:
   500 t light; 529 t standard; 581 t normal; 622 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246,00 ft / 246,00 ft) x 28,40 ft x (6,86 / 7,19 ft)
   (74,98 m / 74,98 m) x 8,66 m  x (2,09 / 2,19 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,02lbs / 24,05kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts

The Byzantines do not use a crystal ball but they perceived that DDs & TBs would go faster and faster and would be bigger and bigger.
The performance of torpedoes would also increase in speed and range.
=> Engaging "torpedo launchers" at 8000m or more with medium guns made it easier to neutralize them.

[Darman]

Fontes Iberis, Iberian Empire Screen Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   4,371 t light; 4,531 t standard; 5,272 t normal; 5,865 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (477.30 ft / 475.72 ft) x 45.93 ft x (14.76 / 16.10 ft)
   (145.48 m / 145.00 m) x 14.00 m  x (4.50 / 4.91 m)

Armament:
      12 - 4.13" / 105 mm 50.0 cal guns - 37.39lbs / 16.96kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      3 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 488 lbs / 221 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   147.64 ft / 45.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34,727 shp / 25,907 Kw = 27.50 kts
   Range 7,300nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,333 tons (85% coal)

Complement:
   309 - 402

Cost:
   £0.420 million / $1.682 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 96 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 96 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 1,077 tons, 20.4 %
      - Belts: 477 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armament: 44 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 529 tons, 10.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,475 tons, 28.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,611 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 902 tons, 17.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 112 tons, 2.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 76 tons
      - Above deck: 36 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,159 lbs / 3,247 Kg = 202.7 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.572 / 0.584
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.47 ft / 4.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,567 Square feet or 1,446 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 334 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Misc Weight:
Long Range Wireless - 25t above deck
1905 Fire Control - 11t above deck
60 mines and related equipment - 60t on deck
2x2x18in TT on sides + 2 reloads each - 16t on deck

Main Battery Layout: (approximately what I intended)
                    X          X          X          X           
          X                                                       X     
          X                                                       X         
                    X         X           X          X

Fontes Iberis-class: Ebro, Hijar, Rudron, Oca, Nela, Bayas, Zadorra, Tiron, Najerilla, Ega, Cidacos, Aragon, Alhama, Quelles, Arba, Jalon, Huerva, Gallego, Martin, Segre, Guadalope

[Kaiser Kirk]

Fontes Iberis, Iberian Empire Screen Cruiser laid down 1913

                    X          X          X          X           
          X                                                       X     
          X                                                       X         
                    X         X           X          X

The Germans had an en echelon arrangement for their bow/stern.  That allowed them to both fire on end on or broadside.
                   X          X          X          X           
      X                                                       X     
          X                                                         X         
                    X         X           X          X

[Desertfox]

Darman asked me to take a crack at it.

Fontes Iberis, Iberian Empire Screen Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   3,871 t light; 4,016 t standard; 4,508 t normal; 4,901 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (450.00 ft / 450.00 ft) x 45.00 ft x (14.70 / 15.69 ft)
   (137.16 m / 137.16 m) x 13.72 m  x (4.48 / 4.78 m)

Armament:
      12 - 4.13" / 105 mm 50.0 cal guns - 37.39lbs / 16.96kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      3 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 488 lbs / 221 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.50" / 64 mm   310.00 ft / 94.49 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   1.50" / 38 mm   310.00 ft / 94.49 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34,168 shp / 25,490 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 885 tons

Complement:
   274 - 357

Cost:
   £0.381 million / $1.523 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 96 tons, 2.1 %
      - Guns: 96 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 1,010 tons, 22.4 %
      - Belts: 466 tons, 10.3 %
      - Armament: 32 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 488 tons, 10.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,339 tons, 29.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,288 tons, 28.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 637 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 138 tons, 3.1 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 90 tons
      - Above deck: 36 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,673 lbs / 2,119 Kg = 132.3 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,871 Square feet or 1,289 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 289 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.87
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
Long Range Wireless - 25t above deck
1905 Fire Control - 11t above deck
60 mines and related equipment - 60t on deck
2 submerged forward torpedo tubesw/2 reloads each - 12t below deck
30 tons spare

Main Battery Layout: (approximately what I intended)
                    X          X          X          X           
          X                                                       X     
          X                                                       X         
                    X         X           X          X

Fontes Iberis-class: Ebro, Hijar, Rudron, Oca, Nela, Bayas, Zadorra, Tiron, Najerilla, Ega, Cidacos, Aragon, Alhama, Quelles, Arba, Jalon, Huerva, Gallego, Martin, Segre, Guadalope

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm going to point out the ship design guideline again. '
With 105mm, it's not as important, but it's an easy step being skipped.

Hoists

Protected cruisers should have hoists with the gun mounts, if the appropriate technology has been researched. Destroyers of WWI had no hoists for individual guns.  A cruiser without hoists has a lower sustained rate of fire, and is more vulnerable due to the ammo exposed on the deck.

[Darman]

I'm going to point out the ship design guideline again. '
With 105mm, it's not as important, but it's an easy step being skipped.

With this design I'm content without hoists

[Darman]

Darman asked me to take a crack at it.

And I thank you very much for it. 

I'm thinking I'm going to run with the larger design. 

[Darman]

I'm awful at destroyers, but here goes:

E-class, Iberia Destroyer laid down 1913

Displacement:
   806 t light; 840 t standard; 905 t normal; 957 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (312.79 ft / 308.40 ft) x 31.17 ft x (8.04 / 8.36 ft)
   (95.34 m / 94.00 m) x 9.50 m  x (2.45 / 2.55 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm 40.0 cal guns - 33.85lbs / 15.36kg shells, 210 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      Weight of broadside 135 lbs / 61 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 18,741 shp / 13,981 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 117 tons

Complement:
   82 - 107

Cost:
   £0.108 million / $0.433 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 466 tons, 51.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 265 tons, 29.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 99 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 49 tons, 5.4 %
      - Hull below water: 3 tons
      - Hull void weights: 15 tons
      - Hull above water: 3 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 25 tons
      - Above deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     309 lbs / 140 Kg = 8.7 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.417
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.06 ft / 3.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,636 Square feet or 524 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 136 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 0.58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Miscellaneous Weight :
12t : 6x 1905 torpedoes 3T2 460mm, 2t each
12t : 6x additional torpedoes
3t : Torpedo reloading gear
3t : 1905 Fire Control & Rangefinders
0t : Short-range wireless

Trial Speed: 31.2kts

[Kaiser Kirk]

I suck at destroyers too. I keep trying to armor them, and then I have to add machinery to get up to 50%.

At 3500nm, the range might be short for your needs.

I will observe that it is ~4320nm from Durban to Christmas Isle. And about 5800nm to the Moluccas. 
It is also similarly beyond range from South America to Kiribati and then West across the Pacific.

And there's no underway replenishment.
Toss in that most non-naval ports will have no oil fuel available,
and your deployments are not as easy as they could be.

I've noticed several folks putting aside tonnage for torpedo reloads. As far as I know it's something only the Japanese did.  You can do it too of course, I just find it interesting. So far folks DDs have been returning to base after combat, so it hasn't come up.

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, I figure reloads are pointless at this time.

Maybe that'll change, but for now, the weight's better spent elsewhere.